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Nestorianism

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So I recently came across the Wikipedia article for prosopon, and in the article it presents the views of Theodore of Mopsuestia as follows:

"Theodore of Mopsuestia maintained a vision of Christ that saw a prosopic union of the divine and human. This was a union where Jesus was only a man indissolubly united to God through the permanent indwelling of the Logos. (Grillmeir, 428-39) He believed the incarnation of Jesus represents an indwelling of the spirit of God that is separate from the indwelling that was experienced by the Old Testament prophets or New Testament apostles. Jesus was viewed as a human being who shared the divine sonship of the Logos; the Logos united himself to Jesus from the moment of Jesus' conception. After the resurrection, the human Jesus and the Logos reveal that they have always been one prosopon. This oneness of Jesus and the Logos is thus the prosopic union. (Norris, 25)"

If I'm understanding it right, that the "union" of the two "prosopa" involved a co-habitation of the Divine Logos with the Human Christ, not a real, full union as such.

That sounds dangerously close to Apollinarianism.

Not only that, but that it effectively means that Jesus is specifically not the Divine Logos; that Jesus is but the Human Christ who dwelt with, co-habitated with the Divine Logos within Him.

Am I rightly understanding things here?

-CryptoLuthearn
 

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So I recently came across the Wikipedia article for prosopon, and in the article it presents the views of Theodore of Mopsuestia as follows:

"Theodore of Mopsuestia maintained a vision of Christ that saw a prosopic union of the divine and human. This was a union where Jesus was only a man indissolubly united to God through the permanent indwelling of the Logos. (Grillmeir, 428-39) He believed the incarnation of Jesus represents an indwelling of the spirit of God that is separate from the indwelling that was experienced by the Old Testament prophets or New Testament apostles. Jesus was viewed as a human being who shared the divine sonship of the Logos; the Logos united himself to Jesus from the moment of Jesus' conception. After the resurrection, the human Jesus and the Logos reveal that they have always been one prosopon. This oneness of Jesus and the Logos is thus the prosopic union. (Norris, 25)"

If I'm understanding it right, that the "union" of the two "prosopa" involved a co-habitation of the Divine Logos with the Human Christ, not a real, full union as such.

That sounds dangerously close to Apollinarianism.

Not only that, but that it effectively means that Jesus is specifically not the Divine Logos; that Jesus is but the Human Christ who dwelt with, co-habitated with the Divine Logos within Him.

Am I rightly understanding things here?

-CryptoLuthearn

From what I'm reading on it, it sounds like you have a grip on it. I could be wrong though.
 
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Mama Kidogo

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Sounds like you got it right in the title rather than Apollinarianism as that seems to deal with the mind of Christ not being human.
As for that term prosopon I've heard it used concerning iconography but mainly it speaks of these.

images
 
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GratiaCorpusChristi

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So I recently came across the Wikipedia article for prosopon, and in the article it presents the views of Theodore of Mopsuestia as follows:

"Theodore of Mopsuestia maintained a vision of Christ that saw a prosopic union of the divine and human. This was a union where Jesus was only a man indissolubly united to God through the permanent indwelling of the Logos. (Grillmeir, 428-39) He believed the incarnation of Jesus represents an indwelling of the spirit of God that is separate from the indwelling that was experienced by the Old Testament prophets or New Testament apostles. Jesus was viewed as a human being who shared the divine sonship of the Logos; the Logos united himself to Jesus from the moment of Jesus' conception. After the resurrection, the human Jesus and the Logos reveal that they have always been one prosopon. This oneness of Jesus and the Logos is thus the prosopic union. (Norris, 25)"

If I'm understanding it right, that the "union" of the two "prosopa" involved a co-habitation of the Divine Logos with the Human Christ, not a real, full union as such.

That sounds dangerously close to Apollinarianism.

Not only that, but that it effectively means that Jesus is specifically not the Divine Logos; that Jesus is but the Human Christ who dwelt with, co-habitated with the Divine Logos within Him.

Am I rightly understanding things here?

-CryptoLuthearn

Actually, Theodore and other Antiochenes were writing specifically in contrast to Apollinaris. Theodore (and Nestorius after him) wanted to emphasize the fullness of the humanity of Christ, and the way they did that was to emphasize that Christ, having a fully rational mind and soul (against Apollinaris), was a total human person. For Apollinaris, on the other hand, Christ was the "one incarnate Word," just as he was for Eutychus.
 
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GratiaCorpusChristi

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Sounds like you got it right in the title rather than Apollinarianism as that seems to deal with the mind of Christ not being human.
As for that term prosopon I've heard it used concerning iconography but mainly it speaks of these.

images

Right, exactly. The Greek word prosopon generally means "mask" or "role" or at best "persona," and thus the Greek-speaking church needed to come up with a term that paralleled the Latin term persona (which, confusingly, is not like the English 'persona,' but rather like the English word person, meaning a real and ongoing continuing identity). That word was hypostasis, and it only really comes into serious use thanks to the Cappadocian fathers.
 
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If I'm understanding it right, that the "union" of the two ff" involved a co-habitation of the Divine Logos with the Human Christ, not a real, full union as such.

That sounds dangerously close to Apollinarianism.

Not only that, but that it effectively means that Jesus is specifically not the Divine Logos..
From what many have noted, it was Theodore of Mopsuestia who was the true author of Nestorianism rather than Nestorius himself since he was Nestorius was his teacher - with many noting that Nestorius endured a lot of Miaphysite partisans of Cyrillian Christological terminology and his teachings were not Nestrorian, even though the heresy that was condemned took its name from him.

Some of this was shared more so in God the Son didn't have a human nature.—RC Sproul.... and For more on the subject:





With Theodore, however, the other view which seems sound is that he was advocating that Christ and His Divnity were ALWAYS united - but it was seen much more clearly after the Resurrection, with his human nature being filled by the Holy Spirit in a way radically different (even though still human) than how it was with the rest of humanity

Essentially, Theodore's view would be similar to camps within much of the Pentecostal world that emphasize the role and importance of the Holy Spirit in the development of Christ - both in his conception and his development throughout life, despite being God. I appreciate how another noted it when saying "In the thought of Theodore of Mopsuestia and Augustine, Christ became the model of the operation of the Holy Spirit in the salvation of Christians." And this view does go with the many scriptures noting where it was the Holy Spirit who rose Christ from the dead (as Romans 8 and I Peter 3:18 notes among other places) and the Holy Spirit whom Christ did many of his works through.

We see where he noted “I am the resurrection and the life” (John. 11:25) and we see what he noted in John 10:17-18 when saying “I lay down my life that I may take it up again… I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.” Additionally, we can see where Hebrews 7:16 says that Jesus lives for ever because he possesses “the power of an indestructible life.” So there's no escaping where the Logos was always present - Christ was Divine /fully God.

But the work of the Spirit was highly necessary as it concerns Christ in his humanity - something that was present but had to continually develop (as Hebrews 5:7-9) and was not at its greatest till the Resurrection - Christ, the NEW Adam, showing what man was meant to be and reflecting the process of theosis. Without the work of the Spirit growing him in his humanity - and focusing on that as Theodore did - one ends up missing the purpose of the Incarnation. For Romans 1:4 states that Jesus “was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead” (Rom. 1:4) and Romans 8:11 says, “If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.”

Jesus was born of the Spirit - filled with the Spirit from the womb, yet baptized in the Spirit later (Matthew 3) and daily growing in th Spirit- and Theodore had no problem with that.




[



As said best in Theosis, St. Silouan and Elder Sophrony | Everyday Liturgy (for brief excerpt):

... we have the Gospel narrative of the Transfiguration in Luke 9:28, where we first see Christ praying, performing, that is, an act which is proper to His human but not to His divine nature; while moments later, we find His humanity sharing in, indeed resplendent with. His divine glory, which is proper only to the divine nature. Saint Cyril of Alexandria describes the scene in this way: ”The blessed disciples slept for a short while, as Christ gave Himself to prayer. For He voluntarily fulfilled His human obligations (ta anthropina). Later, on waking they became beholders (theoroi) of His most holy and wondrous change” (5).

Staretz Sophrony points out that the union of the human nature in Christ is of course hypostatic or prosopic, that is to say, that Christ is a divine Person, the Person of the Son and Word of God; but, it is equally important to note that the union of the two natures in Christ is also energetic (6). The significance of this energetic interpenetration of the divine and human natures in each other is of paramount importance for us human beings in that it forms the basis of our own union with God, which is also energetic and not essential or hypostatic. In other words, it proves to us that the example of Christ is also realizable, also attainable, by us human persons, and that theosis to the point of divine perfection, far from being optional, is in fact an obligation. It is in this sense that Staretz Sophrony understands the exhortation: ”Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Matt. 5:48).​






Theodore believed in the close and inseperable unions of the Divine and Human natures into one person - the Church of the East reflected his thoughts greatly...


Theodore of Mopsuestia
did an excellent job of bringing out the issue of how the human nature is separate from the Divine Nature for Christ - and many of his views make sense when seeing how he saw mankind in its development in general.

In example, Clement of Alexandria and Theodore of Mopseustia held that human death was part of God’s plan before the Fall - in addition to holding the mindset that Adam was created mortal from day one as a part of his nature.

Theodore notes in his treatise Against Those Who Assert That Men Sin by Nature and Not by Will:

Whether God did not know that Adam was going to sin: this should be the response for these exceedingly wise men, that it is most insane even to consider this notion. It is obvious that [God] knew he was going to sin, and that on account of this he would, without a doubt, die. How then is it not suggestive of extreme madness to believe that first [God] made him immortal, for six hours, … but appointed him to be mortal after the sin? Because it is certain that if [God] had wanted him to be immortal, not even the intervention of the act of sin would have changed the divine decree, for God did not reduce the devil from immortality to mortality, and he was the originator of all evils!​


To be clear, this argument by no means surrenders the foundational theological principle that death is a punishment for sin, but on the contrary, it assumes it. What it tries to safeguard, however, is divine sovereignty: for if God had created Adam immortal, Theodore argues, he should have remained immortal even in his post-lapsarian state, forever under the punishment of death, with no possibility of redemption—just like the devil. Essentially, what is on the line is not just Adam’s ontological transformation, but God’s justice and sovereignty as well. It was in God’s justice that death is the appropriate punishment for Adam’s sin and also the means of deliverance.

As said best elsewhere, Mortality is at once the consequence of sin and an aspect of humanity’s original state.

As stated by Theodore of Mopsuestia on the need for death:

God did not place death upon man either unwillingly or against his better judgment, neither did he provide access to sin for no good purpose; for he was able, if he did not wish this to be so, to do otherwise. But he knew it was beneficial for us, nay more, for all rational creatures, at first to have access to evils and inferior things, and thereafter for these to be blotted out and better things introduced.

Therefore God divided the creation into two states, the present and the future. In the latter he will bring all to immortality and immutability. In the former he gives us over to death and mutability. For if he had made us at first immortal and immutable, we should not have differed from irrational animals, who do not understand the peculiar characteristics by which they are distinguished.

Augustine held views similar to that:


"God, who is supremely good in his creation of natures that are good, is also completely just in his employment of evil choices in his design, so that whereas such evil choices make a wrong use of good natures, God turns evil choices to good use. . . . Evil things are allowed to exist in order to show how the righteousness and foreknowledge of the Creator can turn even those very evils to good account."

City of God 11.17; 14.11.



Going back to Theodore, when one sees how he saw Adam, it makes sense as to why He felt that Christ - the SECOND Adam - was similar in many ways, despite the Christ as Logos....AND it is because Adam was limited in his humanity and had to grow in theosis thru fasting/discipline and prayer that Theodore felt Christ had to grow in the same way as well in one side of who He was.

Theodore is similar to camps who say that Christ was God - but he primarily grew in his walk with God (in light of being made like us at all points according to Hebrews 2 and tempted) with his manhood developing as it is with all mankind whom he represents - his will and reliance upon the Holy Spirit aiding in his fulfilling His calling rather than relying on the Logos alone.

It's hard to really understand Theodore outside of really knowing the culture and the context which he grew up in - and for more information that can help with that (as the school he came from in Antioch tended to stress Christ's humanity counter to Alexandria and language meant differently for them ), one can read Christianity in Iraq: Its Origins and Development to the Present Day By Suha Rassam
 
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Actually, Theodore and other Antiochenes were writing specifically in contrast to Apollinaris. Theodore (and Nestorius after him) wanted to emphasize the fullness of the humanity of Christ, and the way they did that was to emphasize that Christ, having a fully rational mind and soul (against Apollinaris), was a total human person. For Apollinaris, on the other hand, Christ was the "one incarnate Word," just as he was for Eutychus.
Precisely - there was a reason behind the language that they used and why.....but that context of whom they were fighting, if left out, skews a lot.
 
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The old "Catholic encyclopaedia" says this about his christology.
Theodore's Christology exercised a more direct and eventful influence on the doctrine of his (mediate) disciple Nestorius. The contemporary polemics against Arianism and Apollinarianism led the Antiochenes (Diodorus, Theodore, and Nestorius) to emphasize energetically the perfect Divinity and the unimpaired Humanity of Christ, and to separate as sharply as possible the two natures. Thus, in a sermon which he delivered at Antioch (perhaps the first as bishop), Theodore vehemently attacked the use of the term theotokos, long employed in ecclesiastical terminology, because Mary was strictly speaking anthropotokos, and only indirectly theotokos. It was only by recalling his words and correcting himself that Theodore could appease the excitement resulting from this view (see John of Antioch, "Epist. ad Theodosium imper." in Facundus Herm., "Pro defensione trium capp.", X, 2; P.L., LXXXVII, 771). It cannot indeed be denied that the Antiochene separation of the natures must result in an improper weakening of the union in Christ. Like Nestorius, Theodore expressly declares that he wished to uphold the unity of person in Christ; perhaps they recognized some distinction between nature and person, but did not know exactly what was the distinguishing factor, and therefore used faulty paraphrases and comparisons, and spoke of the two natures in a way which, taken strictly, presupposed two persons. Thus, according to Theodore, the human nature of Christ was not only passibilis, but also really tentabilis, since otherwise His actual freedom from sin would be the result of His physical union with God, not a merit of His free wilt. The union of the human and Divine nature happens not kat ousian nor kat energeian, but kat eudokian (at will), and indeed a eudokia hos en houio, which effects a enosis eis en prosopon. The two natures form a unity, "like man and wife" or "body and soul". Consequently, according to Theodore, the communicato idiomatum, fundamentally speaking, is also lawful.​
His teaching was later condemned.
The condemnation of the doctrine of Theodore

While during his lifetime (apart from the episode at Antioch) Theodore was regarded as orthodox (cf. Theodoret, Church History V.39; John of Antioch, in Facundus, II, 2), a loud outcry was raised against him when the Pelagians and Nestorians appealed to his writings. The first to represent him as the father of Pelagianism was Marius Mercator in his work "Liber subnotationum in verba Juliani, Praef." (about 431; in P.L., XLVIII, 111). He was accused of Nestorianism by Hesychius of Jerusalem in his Church History (about 435) Rabulas of Edessa went so far as to pronounce anathema on Theodore. Acting under the influence of the latter, St. Cyril of Alexandria expressed himself in fairly sharp terms concerning Theodore, naming him with Diodorus the "patres Nestorii blasphemæe" ("Ep. lxxi ad Theodosium imp.", in P.G. LXXVII, 341-44); he was, however, unwilling to condemn Theodore, as he had died in peace with the Church. Meanwhile the Nestorian strife passed by without any official action being taken by the Church against Theodore, although his writings stood in higher favour among the Nestorians of Edessa and Nisibis than those of Nestorius himself. The General Council of Chalcedon seemed rather to favour Theodore, when it declared his disciples and admirers, Theodoret and Ibas of Edessa, orthodox, although the latter in his epistle to Maris had referred to Theodore in terms of the highest praise. The Monophysitic reaction against the Council of Chalcedon in the sixth century first succeeded in bringing Theodore's person and writings under the ban of the ecclesiastical anathema through the ill-famed dispute of the Three Chapters. Theodore was for the first time condemned as a heretic by the Emperor Justinian in his edict against the Three Chapters (544). Under the influence of imperial pressure Pope Vigilius composed (553) at Constantinople a document in which sixty propositions taken from Theodore's writing were declared heretical. Finally, at the Fifth General Synod (553), at which, however, Vigilius did not participate, the three Chapters, including Theodore's writings and person, were placed under anathema. It was only on 8 December that Vigilius, broken with exile, gave his approval to the decrees of the synod. Among the most zealous defenders of Theodore and the Three Chapters, besides Pope Vigilius (until 533), were the African Facundus of Hermiana ("Pro defensione trium capitulorum libri XII", in P.L., LXVII, 527 sqq.) and the bishops, Paulinus of Aquileia and Vitalis of Milan.​
 
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The content of much of the above (minus the multi cut and paste) puts me in mind of the role of the first Adam as a new creature leaving the Father to follow his wife into the world at the beginning of biblical recording, to end in the the new creation following the new Adam back to the Father. A full circle that resulted in the union of the divine and human.
 
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The old "Catholic encyclopaedia" says this about his christology.
Theodore's Christology exercised a more direct and eventful influence on the doctrine of his (mediate) disciple Nestorius. The contemporary polemics against Arianism and Apollinarianism led the Antiochenes (Diodorus, Theodore, and Nestorius) to emphasize energetically the perfect Divinity and the unimpaired Humanity of Christ, and to separate as sharply as possible the two natures. Thus, in a sermon which he delivered at Antioch (perhaps the first as bishop), Theodore vehemently attacked the use of the term theotokos, long employed in ecclesiastical terminology, because Mary was strictly speaking anthropotokos, and only indirectly theotokos. It was only by recalling his words and correcting himself that Theodore could appease the excitement resulting from this view (see John of Antioch, "Epist. ad Theodosium imper." in Facundus Herm., "Pro defensione trium capp.", X, 2; P.L., LXXXVII, 771). It cannot indeed be denied that the Antiochene separation of the natures must result in an improper weakening of the union in Christ. Like Nestorius, Theodore expressly declares that he wished to uphold the unity of person in Christ; perhaps they recognized some distinction between nature and person, but did not know exactly what was the distinguishing factor, and therefore used faulty paraphrases and comparisons, and spoke of the two natures in a way which, taken strictly, presupposed two persons. Thus, according to Theodore, the human nature of Christ was not only passibilis, but also really tentabilis, since otherwise His actual freedom from sin would be the result of His physical union with God, not a merit of His free wilt. The union of the human and Divine nature happens not kat ousian nor kat energeian, but kat eudokian (at will), and indeed a eudokia hos en houio, which effects a enosis eis en prosopon. The two natures form a unity, "like man and wife" or "body and soul". Consequently, according to Theodore, the communicato idiomatum, fundamentally speaking, is also lawful.​
His teaching was later condemned.
The condemnation of the doctrine of Theodore

While during his lifetime (apart from the episode at Antioch) Theodore was regarded as orthodox (cf. Theodoret, Church History V.39; John of Antioch, in Facundus, II, 2), a loud outcry was raised against him when the Pelagians and Nestorians appealed to his writings. The first to represent him as the father of Pelagianism was Marius Mercator in his work "Liber subnotationum in verba Juliani, Praef." (about 431; in P.L., XLVIII, 111). He was accused of Nestorianism by Hesychius of Jerusalem in his Church History (about 435) Rabulas of Edessa went so far as to pronounce anathema on Theodore. Acting under the influence of the latter, St. Cyril of Alexandria expressed himself in fairly sharp terms concerning Theodore, naming him with Diodorus the "patres Nestorii blasphemæe" ("Ep. lxxi ad Theodosium imp.", in P.G. LXXVII, 341-44); he was, however, unwilling to condemn Theodore, as he had died in peace with the Church. Meanwhile the Nestorian strife passed by without any official action being taken by the Church against Theodore, although his writings stood in higher favour among the Nestorians of Edessa and Nisibis than those of Nestorius himself. The General Council of Chalcedon seemed rather to favour Theodore, when it declared his disciples and admirers, Theodoret and Ibas of Edessa, orthodox, although the latter in his epistle to Maris had referred to Theodore in terms of the highest praise. The Monophysitic reaction against the Council of Chalcedon in the sixth century first succeeded in bringing Theodore's person and writings under the ban of the ecclesiastical anathema through the ill-famed dispute of the Three Chapters. Theodore was for the first time condemned as a heretic by the Emperor Justinian in his edict against the Three Chapters (544). Under the influence of imperial pressure Pope Vigilius composed (553) at Constantinople a document in which sixty propositions taken from Theodore's writing were declared heretical. Finally, at the Fifth General Synod (553), at which, however, Vigilius did not participate, the three Chapters, including Theodore's writings and person, were placed under anathema. It was only on 8 December that Vigilius, broken with exile, gave his approval to the decrees of the synod. Among the most zealous defenders of Theodore and the Three Chapters, besides Pope Vigilius (until 533), were the African Facundus of Hermiana ("Pro defensione trium capitulorum libri XII", in P.L., LXVII, 527 sqq.) and the bishops, Paulinus of Aquileia and Vitalis of Milan.​

Thanks, MC. This actually touches on some things I've wondered about. I'll probably have to read this thread a dozen times to fully understand the implications, but this is very helpful. Thank you. :)

And thanks to you all. Very interesting. (Subscribing, LOL)
 
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The content of much of the above (minus the multi cut and paste) puts me in mind of the role of the first Adam as a new creature leaving the Father to follow his wife into the world at the beginning of biblical recording, to end in the the new creation following the new Adam back to the Father. A full circle that resulted in the union of the divine and human.

Right, recapitulation. You might enjoy Irenaeus of Lyons on this very subject:

So the Lord now manifestly came to his own, and born by his own created order which he himself bears, he by his obedience on the tree renewed [and reversed] what was done by disobedience in [connection with] a tree. ... Indeed, the sin of the first-formed man was amended by the chastisement of the First-begotten, the wisdom of the serpent was conquered by the simplicity of the dove, and the chains were broken by which we were in bondage to death.
Therefore he renews these things in himself, uniting man to the Spirit; and placing the Spirit in man, he himself is made the head of the Spirit and gives the Spirit to be the head of man, ...
He therefore completely renewed all things, both taking up the battle against our enemy, and crushing him who at the beginning had led us captive in Adam, tramping on his head ...
 
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..the role of the first Adam as a new creature leaving the Father to follow his wife into the world at the beginning of biblical recording, to end in the the new creation following the new Adam back to the Father. A full circle that resulted in the union of the divine and human.
Indeed (more shared on what other church fathers said on that with the role of the first Adam in comparison to the second ) in The Command Not to Eat the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge )
 
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Actually, Theodore and other Antiochenes were writing specifically in contrast to Apollinaris. Theodore (and Nestorius after him) wanted to emphasize the fullness of the humanity of Christ, and the way they did that was to emphasize that Christ, having a fully rational mind and soul (against Apollinaris), was a total human person. For Apollinaris, on the other hand, Christ was the "one incarnate Word," just as he was for Eutychus.

So for Apollinaris the Divine Logos takes the place of the soul in the person of Jesus (that has been my understanding of Apollinarianism at least, or is that in error?); whereas for Theodore the fully human (body-and-soul) Jesus is united to the Divine Logos as distinct prosopa functioning as a single prosopon?

Is the Theodoran/Nestorian concept of a prosopic union a matter of mere semantics or is it, in fact, a firm rejection of a real, essential union?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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GratiaCorpusChristi

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So for Apollinaris the Divine Logos takes the place of the soul in the person of Jesus (that has been my understanding of Apollinarianism at least, or is that in error?); whereas for Theodore the fully human (body-and-soul) Jesus is united to the Divine Logos as distinct prosopa functioning as a single prosopon?

Is the Theodoran/Nestorian concept of a prosopic union a matter of mere semantics or is it, in fact, a firm rejection of a real, essential union?

-CryptoLutheran

Yes, I think that Theodore and Nestorius understand both the human Jesus and the divine Logos to be total persons in the sense that God the Father is a person (for the Logos) and other humans are persons (for Jesus of Nazareth), and that they together function as one united Christ (hence Mary for Nestorius is Christotokos). But that one united Christ is a functional union of wills, serving together in a single Messianic role, rather than a personal (or "prosopic") union.

The upshot is that for Nestorius, the Second Person of the Trinity can be experienced outside the person of Jesus of Nazareth, and it seems could theoretically even be united to another human person in quite the same way (although this would never happen, just because).
 
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There's a long article about Nestorianism in the old Catholic encyclopaedia.
The heresy

Nestorius was a disciple of the school of Antioch, and his Christology was essentially that of Diodorus of Tarsus and Theodore of Mopsuestia, both Cilician bishops and great opponents of Arianism. Both died in the Catholic Church. Diodorus was a holy man, much venerated by St. John Chrysostom. Theodore, however, was condemned in person as well as in his writings by the Fifth General Council, in 553. In opposition to many of the Arians, who taught that in the Incarnation the Son of God assumed a human body in which His Divine Nature took the place of soul, and to the followers of Apollinarius of Laodicea, who held that the Divine Nature supplied the functions of the higher or intellectual soul, the Antiochenes insisted upon the completeness of the humanity which the Word assumed. Unfortunately, they represented this human nature as a complete man, and represented the Incarnation as the assumption of a man by the Word. The same way of speaking was common enough in Latin writers (assumere hominem, homo assumptus) and was meant by them in an orthodox sense; we still sing in the Te Deum: "Tu ad liberandum suscepturus hominem", where we must understand "ad liberandum hominem, humanam naturam suscepisti". But the Antiochene writers did not mean that the "man assumed" (ho lephtheis anthropos) was taken up into one hypostasis with the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. They preferred to speak of synapheia, "junction", rather than enosis, "unification", and said that the two were one person in dignity and power, and must be worshipped together. The word person in its Greek form prosopon might stand for a juridical or fictitious unity; it does not necessarily imply what the word person implies to us, that is, the unity of the subject of consciousness and of all the internal and external activities. Hence we are not surprised to find that Diodorus admitted two Sons, and that Theodore practically made two Christs, and yet that they cannot be proved to have really made two subjects in Christ. Two things are certain: first, that, whether or no they believed in the unity of the subject in the Incarnate Word, at least they explained that unity wrongly; secondly, that they used most unfortunate and misleading language when they spoke of the union of the manhood with the Godhead — language which is objectively heretical, even were the intention of its authors good.

Nestorius, as well as Theodore, repeatedly insisted that he did not admit two Christs or two Sons, and he frequently asserted the unity of the prosopon. On arriving at Constantinople he came to the conclusion that the very different theology which he found rife there was a form of Arian or Apollinarian error. In this he was not wholly wrong, as the outbreak of Eutychianism twenty years later may be held to prove. In the first months of his pontificate he was implored by the Pelagian Julian of Eclanum and other expelled bishops of his party to recognize their orthodoxy and obtain their restoration He wrote at least three letters to the pope, St. Celestine I, to inquire whether these petitioners had been duly condemned or not, but he received no reply, not (as has been too often repeated) because the pope imagined he did not respect the condemnation of the Pelagians by himself and by the Western emperor, but because he added in his letters, which are extant, denunciations of the supposed Arians and Apollinarians of Constantinople, and in so doing gave clear signs of the Antiochene errors soon to be known as Nestorian. In particular he denounced those who employed the word Theotokos, though he was ready to admit the use of it in a certain sense: "Ferri tamen potest hoc vocabulum proper ipsum considerationem, quod solum nominetur de virgine hoc verbum hoc propter inseparable templum Dei Verbi ex ipsa, non quia mater sit Dei Verbi; nemo enim antiquiorem se parit." Such an admission is worse than useless, for it involves the whole error that the Blessed Virgin is not the mother of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. It is therefore unfortunate that Loofs and others who defend Nestorius should appeal to the frequency with which he repeated that he should accept the Theotokos if only it was properly understood. In the same letter he speaks quite correctly of the "two Natures which are adored in the one Person of the Only-begotten by a perfect and unconfused conjunction", but this could not palliate his mistake that the Blessed Virgin is mother of one nature, not of the person (a son is necessarily a person, not a nature), nor the fallacy: "No one can bring forth a son older than herself." The deacon Leo, who was twenty years later as pope to define the whole doctrine, gave these letters to John Cassian of Marseilles, who at once wrote against Nestorius his seven books, "De incarnatione Christi". Before he had completed the work he had further obtained some sermons of Nestorius, from which he quotes in the later books. He misunderstands and exaggerates the teaching of his opponent, but his treatise is important because it stereotyped once for all a doctrine which the Western world was to accept as Nestorianism. After explaining that the new heresy was a renewal of Pelagianism and Ebionitism, Cassian represents the Constantinoplitan patriarch as teaching that Christ is a mere man (homo solitarius) who merited union with the Divinity as the reward of His Passion. Cassian himself brings out quite clearly both the unity of person and the distinction of the two natures, yet the formula "Two Natures and one Person" is less plainly enunciated by him than by Nestorius himself, and the discussion is wanting in clear-cut distinctions and definitions.

... This is only a small part of the article.​
-- CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Nestorius and Nestorianism --​
 
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WisdomTree

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I'd say Nestorianism is more close to Arianism than it is to Apollinarianism.

The first few Ecumenical Councils that were called was to deal with not some random heresies popping up, but rather zealous overreactions which went to one extreme to another.

- The First Council in 325 (Nicaea I) dealt with Arianism which developed as an overreaction to Sabellianism
- The Second Council in 381 (Constantinople I) dealt with Apollinarianism (as well as Arianism again and Sabellianism) which developed as an overreaction to Arianism
- The Third Council in 431 (Ephesus) dealt with Nestorianism which developed as an overreaction against Apollinarianism
- The Fourth Council in 451 (Chalcedon) dealt with Etycheanism which developed as an overreaction against Nestorianism

All subsequent Councils relate to one or more of these including the whole Iconoclasm debacle which can be considered the last Ecumenical Council to some, which was a result of the rise of Islam which was influenced by either Arianism or Nestorianism (more likely to be the former).

As a side note, I don't believe the modern direct descendants of Nestorians (Church of the East) to be heretical since the signing of the Christological Declarations. They're still Nestorians in the sense of historicity, but not in the sense of heresy (unlike the modern spin-offs of what I like to call "Neo-Nestorianism").
 
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hedrick

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Yes, I think that Theodore and Nestorius understand both the human Jesus and the divine Logos to be total persons in the sense that God the Father is a person (for the Logos) and other humans are persons (for Jesus of Nazareth), and that they together function as one united Christ (hence Mary for Nestorius is Christotokos). But that one united Christ is a functional union of wills, serving together in a single Messianic role, rather than a personal (or "prosopic") union.

The upshot is that for Nestorius, the Second Person of the Trinity can be experienced outside the person of Jesus of Nazareth, and it seems could theoretically even be united to another human person in quite the same way (although this would never happen, just because).

It's not clear that this is right. There's disagreement among scholars about what Theodore meant. But remember that originally in Greek philosophy hypostasis and ousia were nearly synonyms. Many scholars think that for Theodore, hypostasis meant a nature that exists. In particular, he said that the body and the soul have their own hypostasis. This usage is present at Nicea where hypostasis and ousia are at one point treated as the same: "those who say … that [the Word of God] came to be from things that were not or from another hypostasis or ousia" [from McLeod, Theodore of Mopseustia) For him, a single hypostasis would have meant Arianism or maybe Eutyches: a single
nature or at least the natures confused.

So what does he mean by a prosopic union? In commenting on Phillipians 2:5-11, "Theodore's intent when he assigns two outward forms, that of God and that of the slave, both to Christ's persona (that is, his common prosopon). The persona's outward form of a slave reveals the nature responsible for Jesus' external humble deeds, while that of God (who by His nature is incapable of acting in humble ways) gives His divine blessing to the statement that all must practice humility to attain salvation. Thus, although the two forms or external ways of acting are different from one another, they are, nevertheless, attributed to and united together in the one prosopon. Such a viewpoint is best exemplified by the Synoptics, who portray Christ acting as one in human and divine ways. Whereas schema is indicating the present outer form that Christ as man and God may now take, it is seen to differ from the unity that a common prosopon denotes, that is, the unity as it is acting as one. Its external activities mirror and reveal the inner workings of the human and divine natures. Christ qua man engages in humble tasks, while Christ qua the form of God (that is, the Word of God) is approving of humility. But both are attributed to the same reality." (op cit)

Some people understand the unity in Theodore as more of a functional union than a metaphysical one, but I don't think the common accusation that he teaches "two Christs" or mere a moral unity is correct. Of course something like a functional union is common within theology today that intends to be orthodox. But there seem to be places where Theodore goes beyond a functional union.

Some of the issue here is that neither Theodore's work nor Nestorius' is well preserved. However more has become available during the 20th Cent. I've looked at some longer work by Theodore, and it seemed boringly orthodox to me. I'm not as familiar with Nestorius, but there are plenty of scholars who think he was orthodox as well.
 
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hedrick

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If I'm understanding it right, that the "union" of the two "prosopa" involved a co-habitation of the Divine Logos with the Human Christ, not a real, full union as such.

That sounds dangerously close to Apollinarianism.

Not only that, but that it effectively means that Jesus is specifically not the Divine Logos; that Jesus is but the Human Christ who dwelt with, co-habitated with the Divine Logos within Him.

Am I rightly understanding things here?

-CryptoLuthearn

I don't think you're quite right. First, there is only one prosopon. You are right that Theodore saw the human and the Logos as distinguished, but that's simply the two-nature concept, which is the basis of Chalcedon.

You have to look at that together with his statement that the two are united into one prosopon.

"But what does it mean to say “as in a son”? It means that having indwelt him, he united the one assumed as a whole to himself and equipped him to share with himself in all the honor in which he, being Son by nature, participates, so as to be counted one person in virtue of the union with him and to share with him all his dominion, and in this way to accomplish everything in him, so that even the examination and judgment of the world shall be fulfilled through him and his advent. Of course, in all this the difference in natural characteristics is kept in mind." (Theodore, "On the Incarnation", quoted in Norris, "The Christological Controversy")

I think the way in which Theodore differed from Alexandrian language is that he tends to describe Jesus and the Logos each as having actual existence. He speaks of Jesus' human development, and speaks of his relationship as a man to the Logos. But the monothelite controversy drove the orthodox tradition to end up adopting that view. In the 7th council, Christ is said to have a distinct human will and distinct human actions. That makes him in modern terms a distinct human person.

Theodore's metaphysics has three concepts, whereas Chalcedon speaks of only two. For Theodore there is nature, hypostasis, and prospon. Nature is as it is in Chalcedon. Proposon is as it is in Chalcedon. However Chalcedon sees hypostasis as a synonym for proposon. For Theodore it is separate, what Aquinas called an "individual nature."

Western medieval theology actually comes to be essentially Theodore's. In the Summa, Aquinas says that the Logos assumed an individual human nature. To hammer this home, he says that the Logos could have assumed two human natures. He is clearly thinking not of human nature as an abstract collection of properties, but as a nature concretized. His normal term is "individual human nature." Indeed for him the only reason that Jesus is not a separate human person is because he is united to the Word. I believe that this "individual human nature" is precisely what Theodore meant by hypostasis, and that Theodore would be happy with Thomas' descriptions of the union.

Here's the key passage from the Summa:

"The Word of God "did not assume human nature in general, but 'in atomo'"--that is, in an individual--as Damascene says (De Fide Orth. iii, 11) otherwise every man would be the Word of God, even as Christ was. Yet we must bear in mind that not every individual in the genus of substance, even in rational nature, is a person, but that alone which exists by itself, and not that which exists in some more perfect thing. Hence the hand of Socrates, although it is a kind of individual, is not a person, because it does not exist by itself, but in something more perfect, viz. in the whole. And hence, too, this is signified by a "person" being defined as "an individual substance," for the hand is not a complete substance, but part of a substance. Therefore, although this human nature is a kind of individual in the genus of substance, it has not its own personality, because it does not exist separately, but in something more perfect, viz. in the Person of the Word. Therefore the union took place in the person." (Summa, 3.2.2)

As I understand it, Thomas is saying that the human being is a substantial individual. The only reason we don't call it a human person is that it doesn't exist by itself, but in union with the Logos. (This does not mean that I agree with all of Aquinas. I think parts of his account of Jesus' life fail to do justice to the reality of the individual nature, and thus misunderstand the intent of some NT passages.)

It is hard to read the history surrounding Chalcedon without thinking that politics and personalities were more important than theology. A Church that was truly Christian would have tried to reconcile the two viewpoints. Indeed there was an attempt to do so, which held for a while. Orthodoxy consists in the recognition that we must do justice both to the integrity of God and the human being, but we must also see that in Christ God was truly present with us, and died for us. I think Theodore does this.

Theodore addresses the question of the sense in which we can say that God was born and died. He says that God was born and died by virtue of the union, but not by nature. This seems like an inevitable distinction. His actual language could be troubling: "she is God’s mother, since God was in the man who was fashioned—not circumscribed in him by nature but existing in him according to the disposition of his will." In speaking of death, he says "because he was with him." But looking at the pattern of his language, he's actually pretty close to Athanasius. Athanasius saw the Logos as using his body as an instrument. That's unsatisfactory, because the incarnation involves more than a body. So in Theodore, the Logos uses a full human as his instrument. But that human is the Logos' human, just as for Athanasius, the body is the Logos' body.

To me the underlying question is whether we see Jesus as an actual human being, or whether the Logos wields all the parts of a human without having an actual human being there. Theodore clearly thought there was an actual human being. I believe Aquinas and other orthodox writers did as well. Current mainline theology would certainly agree.
 
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hedrick

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Looking at a couple of documents from Nestorius I see a subtle difference from Theodore. They share a lot in terms of their approach. There's some reason for looking at them together. But there's a crucial difference. Theodore is willing to say that Mary was God's mother, but not according to the nature but by virtue of the incarnation. Nestorius seems to reject that. He speaks of the union as Christ. You could maintain that he teaches a real personal union, since he does see Christ as one, acting both as the Logos and as a man. So in a purely formal sense he may be consistent with Chalcedon. But by attributing the united action to Christ and rejecting an attribution to God, I think he is rejecting one of the things I consider key: that God is in Christ reconciling the world to himself. That is, it is God himself that is born and dies, although only by virtue of the incarnation. Theodore is willing to affirm this. Nestorius is not, at least in the sermon and letter that I just consulted.
 
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I don't think you're quite right. First, there is only one prosopon. You are right that Theodore saw the human and the Logos as distinguished, but that's simply the two-nature concept, which is the basis of Chalcedon.

You have to look at that together with his statement that the two are united into one prosopon.

"But what does it mean to say “as in a son”? It means that having indwelt him, he united the one assumed as a whole to himself and equipped him to share with himself in all the honor in which he, being Son by nature, participates, so as to be counted one person in virtue of the union with him and to share with him all his dominion, and in this way to accomplish everything in him, so that even the examination and judgment of the world shall be fulfilled through him and his advent. Of course, in all this the difference in natural characteristics is kept in mind." (Theodore, "On the Incarnation", quoted in Norris, "The Christological Controversy")

I think the way in which Theodore differed from Alexandrian language is that he tends to describe Jesus and the Logos each as having actual existence. He speaks of Jesus' human development, and speaks of his relationship as a man to the Logos. But the monothelite controversy drove the orthodox tradition to end up adopting that view. In the 7th council, Christ is said to have a distinct human will and distinct human actions. That makes him in modern terms a distinct human person.

Theodore's metaphysics has three concepts, whereas Chalcedon speaks of only two. For Theodore there is nature, hypostasis, and prospon. Nature is as it is in Chalcedon. Proposon is as it is in Chalcedon. However Chalcedon sees hypostasis as a synonym for proposon. For Theodore it is separate, what Aquinas called an "individual nature."

Western medieval theology actually comes to be essentially Theodore's. In the Summa, Aquinas says that the Logos assumed an individual human nature. To hammer this home, he says that the Logos could have assumed two human natures. He is clearly thinking not of human nature as an abstract collection of properties, but as a nature concretized. His normal term is "individual human nature." Indeed for him the only reason that Jesus is not a separate human person is because he is united to the Word. I believe that this "individual human nature" is precisely what Theodore meant by hypostasis, and that Theodore would be happy with Thomas' descriptions of the union.

Here's the key passage from the Summa:

"The Word of God "did not assume human nature in general, but 'in atomo'"--that is, in an individual--as Damascene says (De Fide Orth. iii, 11) otherwise every man would be the Word of God, even as Christ was. Yet we must bear in mind that not every individual in the genus of substance, even in rational nature, is a person, but that alone which exists by itself, and not that which exists in some more perfect thing. Hence the hand of Socrates, although it is a kind of individual, is not a person, because it does not exist by itself, but in something more perfect, viz. in the whole. And hence, too, this is signified by a "person" being defined as "an individual substance," for the hand is not a complete substance, but part of a substance. Therefore, although this human nature is a kind of individual in the genus of substance, it has not its own personality, because it does not exist separately, but in something more perfect, viz. in the Person of the Word. Therefore the union took place in the person." (Summa, 3.2.2)

As I understand it, Thomas is saying that the human being is a substantial individual. The only reason we don't call it a human person is that it doesn't exist by itself, but in union with the Logos. (This does not mean that I agree with all of Aquinas. I think parts of his account of Jesus' life fail to do justice to the reality of the individual nature, and thus misunderstand the intent of some NT passages.)

It is hard to read the history surrounding Chalcedon without thinking that politics and personalities were more important than theology. A Church that was truly Christian would have tried to reconcile the two viewpoints. Indeed there was an attempt to do so, which held for a while. Orthodoxy consists in the recognition that we must do justice both to the integrity of God and the human being, but we must also see that in Christ God was truly present with us, and died for us. I think Theodore does this.

Theodore addresses the question of the sense in which we can say that God was born and died. He says that God was born and died by virtue of the union, but not by nature. This seems like an inevitable distinction. His actual language could be troubling: "she is God’s mother, since God was in the man who was fashioned—not circumscribed in him by nature but existing in him according to the disposition of his will." In speaking of death, he says "because he was with him." But looking at the pattern of his language, he's actually pretty close to Athanasius. Athanasius saw the Logos as using his body as an instrument. That's unsatisfactory, because the incarnation involves more than a body. So in Theodore, the Logos uses a full human as his instrument. But that human is the Logos' human, just as for Athanasius, the body is the Logos' body.

To me the underlying question is whether we see Jesus as an actual human being, or whether the Logos wields all the parts of a human without having an actual human being there. Theodore clearly thought there was an actual human being. I believe Aquinas and other orthodox writers did as well. Current mainline theology would certainly agree.
Very on point, as it concerns Theodore and the way that he really is not understood - but I'd also note that language can make a world of difference as well. For when it comes to geographical political concerns, there is a reason that Persian Christianity accepted the theology of Theodore as its official expression. ..even though there were later camp battles.

It's interesting that no Persian delegates were present at the first four ecumenical councils - more shared in ORIGIN OF THE MAPHRIANATE OF TAGRIT.

 
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