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The Fall feasts.

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Shimshon

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I don't care for this kind of post, if you wish to talk text, as i do, fine.
Oh gargage. You don't care because I called you out on your blanket misrepresentation of Messianic Judaism. YOU won't address it. Yes, this is your standard way of dealing with things. You don't deal with text, you cherry pick them and use them as straw 'against' your perceived heretics. Which in this case is ME. So deal with it. I'm right here. A long standing Messianic JEW. Stop misrepresenting us with your perceived bias and yes, deal with the text 'properly'. You don't.
 
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Shimshon

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But the FACT is that MANY believe that the feasts are to no advantage to the Christian and is leven to the blood of Jesus and our salvation in Him.

That's a fact.
AND many do not. Just as much a fact. Many, including Christians understand the advantage in understanding the feasts. If your church does not, leave the others alone. My lord! Do you realize how pharasitical this is? You both rail against perceived 'legalism' with as much force as a lawyer! Pathetically hypocritical. NO LAW...... YOU MUST BELEIVE if you entertain the law in any way you will perish!!! <<<<<<<<Legalism!!!
 
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Shimshon

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It would seem to be a good tactic from your point of view to make me out to be just a side line cheerleader and not someone convicted by the words of Paul.

Making me seem like a sideline cheerleader for someone else is minimizing my own strong beliefs on this subject, which is what you would like to do so it seems like it is a one against many argument.
.
I notice a pattern. It's very palestinian. An offensive act followed by denial of said act only to turn the table and accuse the offended of being the offender.

From my point of view I express my perspective. My persepective of you is one of a cheerleader. Maybe even, a sock. IF you would like to change this perspective of mine, please feel free to try. It would be very welcome. :) I don't find you sincere, nor likable. From my point of view, judging from your posts here. I find sarcastic inuendos and puffed up pride coming from both you and frog. You should be a shamed that 'others' find your appearance this way. If it were one troll calling you out I would think the troll is stupid. But we have numerous posters from all across the board telling you the same thing. Straw man arguements. When this gets identifed to you guys you pull the pal card. 'stop being personal with me and deal with the text'. All the while being personal with others and NOT dealing with the text honestly. As proven by numerous 'others' from across the Christian spectrum.

The FACT is this is a 'troll' topic for frog, and many others have grown so tired of this bait that they are throwing the fishing pole in the water. But sometimes one has to 'defend' against false statements leveled against a whole sect of beleivers. Especially when it's your own. Rage on.........
 
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Shimshon

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I don't care for this kind of post, if you wish to talk text, as i do, fine.

Truth told, in a clear articulate manner. I agree too, 100%
There was no 'text' there. Are you aware of your biases? Someone agrees with you as they express their opinions on their perspective and you are all for it, but when someone disagree's with you and expresses thier opinion it's 'I don't care for this, talk text ONLY'.... Again, are you aware of your biases? Because if you were you might understand why you get the reactions you do. One can not talk text till one treats the other unbiased.

Because you never seem to do this I find your posting style utterly troll like. Your sole intent seems not to 'discuss' but to troll the law topic so you can 'fight' with others about it. You seem to love this, you said so yourself just a few posts back.
 
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ToBeBlessed

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I notice a pattern. It's very palestinian. An offensive act followed by denial of said act only to turn the table and accuse the offended of being the offender.

From my point of view I express my perspective. My persepective of you is one of a cheerleader. Maybe even, a sock. IF you would like to change this perspective of mine, please feel free to try. It would be very welcome. :) I don't find you sincere, nor likable. From my point of view, judging from your posts here. I find sarcastic inuendos and puffed up pride coming from both you and frog. You should be a shamed that 'others' find your appearance this way. If it were one troll calling you out I would think the troll is stupid. But we have numerous posters from all across the board telling you the same thing. Straw man arguements. When this gets identifed to you guys you pull the pal card. 'stop being personal with me and deal with the text'. All the while being personal with others and NOT dealing with the text honestly. As proven by numerous 'others' from across the Christian spectrum.

The FACT is this is a 'troll' topic for frog, and many others have grown so tired of this bait that they are throwing the fishing pole in the water. But sometimes one has to 'defend' against false statements leveled against a whole sect of beleivers. Especially when it's your own. Rage on.........

You come to this congregation to support a few subjects, usually related to MJ.

I feel no need to impress you, as soon as this thread dies you'll be gone. The wind of a MJ topic blew you into this congregation and when it's finished you'll be gone til the next wind blows by.

You are right, you don't know me. That's because you don't come to this congregation often, except when a MJ topic brings you by. It's very clear what motivates you.
 
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NannaNae

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yes shim and I brought up tons of scriptures and no one one addressed the proven idolatry and sexual sins that Jesus hates more than anyone being judaized..in his churches.. with threats of removing their lamp stands and such statements .

Plus it appears sexual sins might be connected to a church that is into eating meat / food of idols and pagans. but I can't prove it but he does state something that sure looks like he links the two things together anyway.. and if he does maybe we should too. but every "church" I know is doing a lot of both.. so ????????????????

I mean the golden calf at his feet with his same name and deeds , works and merits .. and the following orgy might should be a clue to something . maybe it all has been going on a very very very long time.. maybe he states it twice to show the wickedness and inclinations of mankind hearts to get what they want and so it in God's name...

and maybe only if we step away from Idolatry can we start a new process of redemption.
and he says here

Rom 8:4
in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

this scripture assumes that we are living by the spirit..

but the rightous requirements of the law still have to be met.

we can just do it like David or Sampson.. but we are going to do it or we will not be saved.
 
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Shimshon

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You come to this congregation to support a few subjects, usually related to MJ.

I feel no need to impress you, as soon as this thread dies you'll be gone. The wind of a MJ topic blew you into this congregation and when it's finished you'll be gone til the next wind blows by.

You are right, you don't know me. That's because you don't come to this congregation often, except when a MJ topic brings you by. It's very clear what motivates you.
I'm not a troll. But thank you for so quickly proving my pal remark. I attended fellowship within a vineyard for over a year. I did this when I met my wife. It was her perspective at the time. I'm very much a believer of the indwelling and the power of the Holy Spirit within a believer. I have much more in common then simple law topics with this group so stop trying to make me out ,again, as a troll. if you either of you could hold a discussion that is worth having many would be interested. Using the virtual no I'm not but you are is.... yes pathetic.
 
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NannaNae

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The point is we must know what he wants and too many don't know him at all or his requirements. they said some special thing and or did some extra special thing and think they are saved by them.. this no different than yesterday or jews 2000-3000..
but the feasts and the stories involved in establishing the feasts do reveal his heart to all searching . these help us to know him more than anything else in his word.
 
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murjahel

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God, in His foreknowledge, has always known the plan and revelation of the new covenant with all its details. So, in the Old Testament, He shows in picture form, in types and figures, what would soon come to pass in reality.

The feasts, the sacrifices, have all shown the beauty of what was to come in the new covenant. We no longer are only able to see the picture, we have the real thing. Even though one may now be enjoying the presence of a friend, one does not throw away the pictures of them. The same with the feasts. We can enjoy Passover while rejoicing in Jesus, with Jesus. He is now present with us, in us, while we celebrate the reality of His death, resurrection.

Just as those pictures of an absent loved one, is treasured and often viewed, while awaiting that one’s return... so a type in the Old Testament, showed the image of what was to someday come in reality. The reality is the truly valuable and loved... as a lamb on the altar of burnt offering showed in type the sacrificial nature of Jesus. When Jesus came, the lamb, though a beautiful picture, is not preferred to the reality of Jesus.

Yet, the picture of the lamb, is a beautiful way to teach the reality of Jesus’ nature and work for us. We can view in clearness, His way and manner of approaching the sacrifice He gave for us. Typology should not replace the reality, but should make the reality more clear, more understood.

We miss much if we do not get the groundwork of typology correct. It can also be related to the foundation of a building,... and to have a good foundation in typology, strengthens the beauty and reality of the structure upon such foundation.

Understanding the feasts aid in understanding the truths of their fulfillment. We see the various elements explained in the types of feasts, and rejoice then in realizing their reality in the arrival of Who they prefigured. This is not sinful. It was meant to be an 'example', a lesson to be learned.


There are two kinds of truth in Scripture.

Hebrews 5:12-14
“For when for the time, ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness; for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age; even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”

Milk and meat... are one way to describe truths in the Word. Meat represents the deeper truths, and milk represents the basic, simpler truths. Typology contains both, and yet, by its nature, it is like a bridge, to carry us from the milk to the meat... It takes a truth, puts it in simple form, and then allows, or encourages, deeper seeking into that ‘milk’ truth, to find a ‘meat’ revelation.

I Corinthians 10:11
“these things, written for our admonition’

Hebrews 8:4-5
“Who serve as an example and shadow of heavenly things”

Hebrews 9:8-9
“which was a figure for the time present”

Hebrews 10:1
“... law having a shadow of good things to come...”

The words ‘shadow’, ‘example’, ‘pattern’... all contain the idea we refer to as ‘types’. Types are used to prefigure some person, thing, or event that would appear in the future. Types are a ‘sort of’ prophecy. Prophetically, types show us what was to come.... and the type shows the foreknowledge and planning of an Almighty God.

I celebrate Jesus in the Passover season. I do not normally follow the Passover dinner type, but I find no fault in those who do. I rejoice in the reality now present that was shown in the picture of Passover. The same for the 'feast of tabernacles', and Pentecost, etc... They are wonderful pictures, and as long as we realize that Jesus is the fulfillment, the reality of what they prefigured, we are safe to value the beautiful pictures that God provided.
 
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Frogster

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One it did not go without notice that you skipped my previous post....second ask any athiest if they honor God and Jesus....about the same
Passover is about God delivering from bondage...so yes he delivered me from me..."He called his son out of Egypt"

*[[1Co 10:1-12]] RNKJV* Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was the Messiah.
But with many of them &#1497;&#1492;&#1493;&#1492; was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
Neither let us tempt the Messiah, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

We are to let him lead us into all truth which includes what has been given to us in OT

Red above, read Heb 1, they did not know what we know in OT times.


Paul is clear in several pqassages, much was hidden, even the gospel.

Again, so what if Paul ised an OT thing, as per your post, but the Christian table of the Lord, is not the Jewish passover, fact. Thanks!
 
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Frogster

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Oh gargage. You don't care because I called you out on your blanket misrepresentation of Messianic Judaism. YOU won't address it. Yes, this is your standard way of dealing with things. You don't deal with text, you cherry pick them and use them as straw 'against' your perceived heretics. Which in this case is ME. So deal with it. I'm right here. A long standing Messianic JEW. Stop misrepresenting us with your perceived bias and yes, deal with the text 'properly'. You don't.

Post text.
 
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Frogster

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There was no 'text' there. Are you aware of your biases? Someone agrees with you as they express their opinions on their perspective and you are all for it, but when someone disagree's with you and expresses thier opinion it's 'I don't care for this, talk text ONLY'.... Again, are you aware of your biases? Because if you were you might understand why you get the reactions you do. One can not talk text till one treats the other unbiased.

Because you never seem to do this I find your posting style utterly troll like. Your sole intent seems not to 'discuss' but to troll the law topic so you can 'fight' with others about it. You seem to love this, you said so yourself just a few posts back.

I posted plenty of text, and some very good text based posts on the thread, you are welcome to reply to those, i also do not care for this type of post you made either. Way too personal ...:o Troll? please!
 
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Frogster

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God, in His foreknowledge, has always known the plan and revelation of the new covenant with all its details. So, in the Old Testament, He shows in picture form, in types and figures, what would soon come to pass in reality.

The feasts, the sacrifices, have all shown the beauty of what was to come in the new covenant. We no longer are only able to see the picture, we have the real thing. Even though one may now be enjoying the presence of a friend, one does not throw away the pictures of them. The same with the feasts. We can enjoy Passover while rejoicing in Jesus, with Jesus. He is now present with us, in us, while we celebrate the reality of His death, resurrection.

Just as those pictures of an absent loved one, is treasured and often viewed, while awaiting that one&#8217;s return... so a type in the Old Testament, showed the image of what was to someday come in reality. The reality is the truly valuable and loved... as a lamb on the altar of burnt offering showed in type the sacrificial nature of Jesus. When Jesus came, the lamb, though a beautiful picture, is not preferred to the reality of Jesus.

Yet, the picture of the lamb, is a beautiful way to teach the reality of Jesus&#8217; nature and work for us. We can view in clearness, His way and manner of approaching the sacrifice He gave for us. Typology should not replace the reality, but should make the reality more clear, more understood.

We miss much if we do not get the groundwork of typology correct. It can also be related to the foundation of a building,... and to have a good foundation in typology, strengthens the beauty and reality of the structure upon such foundation.

Understanding the feasts aid in understanding the truths of their fulfillment. We see the various elements explained in the types of feasts, and rejoice then in realizing their reality in the arrival of Who they prefigured. This is not sinful. It was meant to be an 'example', a lesson to be learned.


There are two kinds of truth in Scripture.

Hebrews 5:12-14
&#8220;For when for the time, ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness; for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age; even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.&#8221;

Milk and meat... are one way to describe truths in the Word. Meat represents the deeper truths, and milk represents the basic, simpler truths. Typology contains both, and yet, by its nature, it is like a bridge, to carry us from the milk to the meat... It takes a truth, puts it in simple form, and then allows, or encourages, deeper seeking into that &#8216;milk&#8217; truth, to find a &#8216;meat&#8217; revelation.

I Corinthians 10:11
&#8220;these things, written for our admonition&#8217;

Hebrews 8:4-5
&#8220;Who serve as an example and shadow of heavenly things&#8221;

Hebrews 9:8-9
&#8220;which was a figure for the time present&#8221;

Hebrews 10:1
&#8220;... law having a shadow of good things to come...&#8221;

The words &#8216;shadow&#8217;, &#8216;example&#8217;, &#8216;pattern&#8217;... all contain the idea we refer to as &#8216;types&#8217;. Types are used to prefigure some person, thing, or event that would appear in the future. Types are a &#8216;sort of&#8217; prophecy. Prophetically, types show us what was to come.... and the type shows the foreknowledge and planning of an Almighty God.

I celebrate Jesus in the Passover season. I do not normally follow the Passover dinner type, but I find no fault in those who do. I rejoice in the reality now present that was shown in the picture of Passover. The same for the 'feast of tabernacles', and Pentecost, etc... They are wonderful pictures, and as long as we realize that Jesus is the fulfillment, the reality of what they prefigured, we are safe to value the beautiful pictures that God provided.

But the shadow word in Heb and Col, was used in a durogatory manner.

Besides, both books are showing the better, better is repeated in hebrews ;), and the fact is, that Paul who knew more than all of us, warned about the seduction of the false teaching, like I said, why did he fear it, if it was so wonderful to keep feasts? Why didn't he promote it?

Nope, in fact I have pointed out in several epistles, he fought it.

Here is another, he told Tim, get the law boys outta your church, the law is not for the justified.

1 Tim 1:7 desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make confident assertions.

8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,




So again, too much against it it all.
 
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Frogster

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Paul did not go to Jerusalem for 14 years! Gal 2:1 gee....I guess he did not worry about feasts and rituals too much.:D

Watch out for the flesh mutilators he said in Phil 3...no joke, he meant it.

Oh my, more about the circumcsion.. "judging Paul" said SILENCE THEM!:D


Titus 1:10 For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. 11 They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach.

Case closed, look to the head, Col 2:19, amen!:clap:

All that stuff cut them off from christ in Col 2, yet, we have feast promotion here, like it serves a purpose..


Lookie here, in Col, the false teachers told them they would be more spiritual!:D


They said it would kill flesh, but nope, it does not, in fact I read a commentator actually say, it means to indulge flesh.


Col 2:23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.
 
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Frogster

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Oh, by the way, everyone likes to hang their hat on Rom 14, do bear in mind, that the weak need educating, so me personally, sure, there are times to repsect the weak, but the weak ones were not exactly the example of growth and faith, were they? They needed to learn!



Rom 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.



15:1 We who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
 
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