The Fall feasts.

[murjahel]

Hebrews 8:3-5 (KJV)
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

These shadows too were of good things, shadows of what the Lord would fulfill in type. They foreshadowed the sacrifice of the Lord.

Shadows can be scary to some... for they may prefigure a "boogey" man. As we mature in Christ, we learn that 'shadows' of our youth usually did not turn out to be 'boogey' men, but turned out to the pet dog, or mom checking on you in the night... The same with Colossians 2... some fear galatianism so much that they hate all shadows... In the case of the types of the feasts, and of sacrifices, they were foreshadowing Jesus, and are great teaching tools for us...

Some still jump at 'shadows', and some of us look beyond the shadow, to see if it is the shadow of something 'boogey man like' or something good.

The Book of Hebrews is a great book to show that the Lord Jesus is 'better' than the pictures that foretold of Him. That does not make the pictures bad, for they were good. In fact, the world would have been far more ignorant of the glory of God's plan, had the pictures not been given. We can marvel in the pictures, but we find that the reality of what was pictured is 'BETTER'.

The word "better" is used 13 times in the book of Hebrews. It is translated from the Greek word "kreisson" which means "stronger, mightier, greater, superior, and more excellent."

Christ is presented "better" than:
the prophets (1:1-3)
the angels (1:4-2:18)
Moses (3:1-18)
Joshua (4:1-13)
High Priest (4:14-6:12)
Abraham (6:13-7:10)
Melchisedec (7:1-10)
Aaron and other priests (7:11-8:6)
the old covenant's sacrifices (8:7-10:39)
the old covenant's faith heroes (11:1-12:2)
parents and others (12:3-13:25).

Are any of those things 'bad'? No, of course not. Jesus is 'BETTER' but those things and people that He is 'better than' does not make them bad. They were 'good', are still 'good' and not evil, and Jesus is better than all of them though.

Jesus Christ is also shown to be a "better' hope than we have had before His coming. Then Christ is shown to be the Mediator of a "better" covenant.

The book of Hebrews evaluates the old covenant, and then shows how Jesus has fulfilled such types and has given us things much better.

The word "perfect" is found 14 times in the book.

Perfection is shown to be lacking in the Levitical priesthood, in the law, in the animal sacrifices, and in the old covenant.

Jesus gave Himself and thereby "perfected forever them that are sanctified..." (Hebrews 10:14)

We have all desired the "perfect" way, and strive to find how to have such...

Jesus is presented as that Perfection, and His way is the perfect way.

When we find such perfection, we naturally fear the loss of such. We want to be assured that we will not lose such perfection.

The word "eternal" is found often in Hebrews.

Christ is shown to be the Author of the "eternal salvation" (Heb. 5:9).

Christ Jesus also "obtained eternal redemption" for us (Heb. 9:12).

Christ shares the "promise of eternal inheritance..." (Heb. 9:15).

The throne of the Lord is "forever (Heb.1:8).

Jesus is a "priest forever..." (Heb. 5:6).

And finally, the Lord is presented as "the same yesterday, today, and forever..." (Heb. 13:8).


When we look at the book as a whole, we see that Jesus Christ is presented as BETTER because His blessings and His covenant are ETERNAL and PERFECT.

The pictures of the types and shadows of the Old Testament are now fulfilled. That does not make the admiring of the types and shadows to be bad, but it means we glory in the Lord Jesus as the ONE that all of those pre-figured.

The feasts are 'shadows', skia, of Jesus, and of His ministry done for us. We glory in those shadows, and know that the 'better than' is now come.

 

[Frogster]

The Book of Hebrews is a great book to show that the Lord Jesus is 'better' than the pictures that foretold of Him. That does not make the pictures bad, for they were good. In fact, the world would have been far more ignorant of the glory of God's plan, had the pictures not been given. We can marvel in the pictures, but we find that the reality of what was pictured is 'BETTER'.

The word "better" is used 13 times in the book of Hebrews. It is translated from the Greek word "kreisson" which means "stronger, mightier, greater, superior, and more excellent."

Christ is presented "better" than:
the prophets (1:1-3)
the angels (1:4-2:18)
Moses (3:1-18)
Joshua (4:1-13)
High Priest (4:14-6:12)
Abraham (6:13-7:10)
Melchisedec (7:1-10)
Aaron and other priests (7:11-8:6)
the old covenant's sacrifices (8:7-10:39)
the old covenant's faith heroes (11:1-12:2)
parents and others (12:3-13:25).

Are any of those things 'bad'? No, of course not. Jesus is 'BETTER' but those things and people that He is 'better than' does not make them bad. They were 'good', are still 'good' and not evil, and Jesus is better than all of them though.

Jesus Christ is also shown to be a "better' hope than we have had before His coming. Then Christ is shown to be the Mediator of a "better" covenant.

The book of Hebrews evaluates the old covenant, and then shows how Jesus has fulfilled such types and has given us things much better.

The word "perfect" is found 14 times in the book.

Perfection is shown to be lacking in the Levitical priesthood, in the law, in the animal sacrifices, and in the old covenant.

Jesus gave Himself and thereby "perfected forever them that are sanctified..." (Hebrews 10:14)

We have all desired the "perfect" way, and strive to find how to have such...

Jesus is presented as that Perfection, and His way is the perfect way.

When we find such perfection, we naturally fear the loss of such. We want to be assured that we will not lose such perfection.

The word "eternal" is found often in Hebrews.

Christ is shown to be the Author of the "eternal salvation" (Heb. 5:9).

Christ Jesus also "obtained eternal redemption" for us (Heb. 9:12).

Christ shares the "promise of eternal inheritance..." (Heb. 9:15).

The throne of the Lord is "forever (Heb.1:8).

Jesus is a "priest forever..." (Heb. 5:6).

And finally, the Lord is presented as "the same yesterday, today, and forever..." (Heb. 13:8).


When we look at the book as a whole, we see that Jesus Christ is presented as BETTER because His blessings and His covenant are ETERNAL and PERFECT.

The pictures of the types and shadows of the Old Testament are now fulfilled. That does not make the admiring of the types and shadows to be bad, but it means we glory in the Lord Jesus as the ONE that all of those pre-figured.

The feasts are 'shadows', skia, of Jesus, and of His ministry done for us. We glory in those shadows, and know that the 'better than' is now come.

But the point is, first, no one said they were bad, but no matter what you say, Paul used it as the lesser, to not go to, that is a fact, and certainly that is true of Hebrews.

Again, why did Paul fear the teachings, that would lead them away from Christ, if they got into all of that stuff?

Those are facts, Paul feared for them, when no doubt the false teachers may have said some of the same type of things said by feast proponents, in other words, they might have tried the same logic, like our church sermons, books, or reasons, etc, that we have heard here on our forum over the years.


Don't forget, high sounding arguments they gave, sound nifty, but behind it was the devil. You have not addressed how Paul feared this, because of the spiritual ramifications. Delude he says..hmmmmmmm

2:4 I say this in order that no one may delude you with plausible arguments


Look at how they tried to use Abraham to get them circumcised in Galatia, to which Paul in no uncertain terms fought against that teaching. I am sure that all sounded fine to the unlearned, and no doubt, they used text in Galatia, but ha! So did Paul. Waste of time, 4:10-11, if they started in with feasts to grow by!

 

[murjahel]

Colossians 2:17 (KJV)
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Colossians 2:17 (Wescott-Hort)
17 α εστιν σκια των μελλοντων το δε σωμα του χριστου

Here, we see the word skia = σκια = shadow...

The word has no evil connotation... it does not suggest evil or corruption...

There are times it is used to refer to a 'shadow' of something evil, as in the Septuagint for Ps 23:4
Psalm 23:4 (KJV)
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Some who are not adept at translating or doing exegesis may jump at that kind of usage for 'skia' and think it is therefore an evil thing (skia)... but actually there it is 'death' that is the evil thing that needs comforting by the presence of the Lord...

In Acts 5:15 we see 'skia' referring to the 'shadow of Peter'...
Acts 5:15-16 (KJV)
... they brought forth the sick... that at the least the shadow (skia) of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them... bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

Jesus was in Peter, so Peter's shadow was likewise the shadow of Jesus, and as Peter passed by the sick and those vexed with evil spirits, they were healed and delivered...

So, was the 'skia' an evil thing there? No... of course not... a shadow is never an evil thing, it is the substance of which the shadow is conveying its nearness that is either evil or good. In the case of Peter, it was the shadow of good, in the case of Ps 23, it is the shadow of death, which is bad.

Likewise in Mark 4:32, we have the mustard seed likened to the 'kingdom of God', and it is small but grows into a huge tree that gives 'shadow' (skia) to flocks... Is the shadow (skia) bad??? No, it is the shadow (in this case) to one of the types of the Kingdom of God, which is good. So, the shadow of something good is not evil.

The word 'skia' does not taint at all what Paul is saying to the Colossians.

Colossians 2:17 (KJV)
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

So, if what the shadow prefigures is Christ, then the shadow (skia) cannot be bad... in fact, it is great.. for it is the shadow of what Christ came to do... it is His shadow....

Hebrews 13:22
"And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation: for I have written a letter unto you in few words."

An exhortation is a encouragement, a comfort, and a consolation. This book was not written to scare us, but to encourage us. We are to "encourage one another daily" (Heb. 3:13). We are reminded that we have a "strong encouragement" in Jesus (Heb. 6:18).

WE NEED TO LOOK TO SUCH A FUTURE, AND IT SHOULD BE AN ENCOURAGEMENT AS WE SO GAZE TOWARD THE FUTURE!

The focus of the book of Hebrews is on the future. It speaks of:
"the world to come" (2:5).
Jesus, the "heir of all things..." (1:2).
the "promise of eternal inheritance" (9:15).
the "city Whose Builder and Maker is God..." (11:13).
our being only "pilgrims and strangers on this earth..." (11:13).

The future is of vital importance to every saint. Too many are too earthly minded, too present and past oriented, and too prophetically ignorant to be of any heavenly use.

If Abraham allowed Lot to take the best lands, because He was so anxious to find the heavenly Jerusalem... (11:10),

if Moses could forsake the treasures of Egypt because he had "respect unto the recompense of reward..." (11:26)...

if Jesus could endure the cross "for the joy set before Him..." (12:2),

THEN we must learn to get our eyes upon the future! The Old Testament feasts were pictures of what Jesus came to do, and He is not done fulfilling those types. They were wonderful pictures of what He has now done, and what He will still do. Some of those pictures are fulfilled, but not fully. we still look at the feasts to learn more of His unfolding plan.

Jesus is 'better' than those pictures, but we still rejoice in watching their fulfillment unfold.

THIS BOOK OF HEBREWS EXHORTS US TO EXPECT A FUTURE COMING, A FUTURE HOME IN HEAVEN, AND A FUTURE VICTORIOUS KINGDOM.


This book of Hebrews is not for spiritual babes who need to be spoon-fed. It is not meant to coddle pew-sitting, apathetic, lethargic, and luke-warm members of our congregations. Its meaning is far beyond the understanding of the judgmental, the carnal, the babes... it is for those who have their eyes on Jesus... who understand the Biblical types and shadows... and are anxious to see them unfold into more and more fulfillment.

Hebrews is for some who have the spiritual molars to do some real chewing on strong meat... It was written long ago, about how to prepare for a time soon to come! The book speaks of the good types and shadows, and reminds us to watch as they continue to be fulfilled by Jesus.

 

[Frogster]

Hebrews also warns not to trample on the blood of the grace cov also, in 10:29.

The whole book is about not going back to the lesser, that is commonly known as the shadows.


Again, Paul was clear, stay away from that stuff, it cuts one off from Christ, 2:19.

 

[Frogster]

nm...gotta go...see ya tomorrow.

 

[Frogster]

And to not see the negative tone towards the lesser, the shadows, in Hebrews is amazing, look at the durogatory language here too.



12:18 For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest

The lesser is a cord that runs through Hebrews, if I see the better, I must see the lesser.

 

[murjahel]

WE NEED TO LOOK TO SUCH A FUTURE, AND IT SHOULD BE AN ENCOURAGEMENT AS WE SO GAZE TOWARD THE FUTURE!

Jesus is 'better' than those pictures, but we still rejoice in watching their fulfillment unfold.

THIS BOOK OF HEBREWS EXHORTS US TO EXPECT A FUTURE COMING, A FUTURE HOME IN HEAVEN, AND A FUTURE VICTORIOUS KINGDOM.


This book of Hebrews is not for spiritual babes who need to be spoon-fed. It is not meant to coddle pew-sitting, apathetic, lethargic, and luke-warm members of our congregations. Its meaning is far beyond the understanding of the judgmental, the carnal, the babes... it is for those who have their eyes on Jesus... who understand the Biblical types and shadows... and are anxious to see them unfold into more and more fulfillment.

Hebrews is for some who have the spiritual molars to do some real chewing on strong meat... It was written long ago, about how to prepare for a time soon to come! The book speaks of the good types and shadows, and reminds us to watch as they continue to be fulfilled by Jesus.

In the Written Word of God there is Milk and meat for us to eat. Paul preached about these spiritual giants in Hebrews, and about all the 'shadows' in the Old Testament. We are to feed on the truths of milk and of meat, and enjoy the revelation of what those Old Testament shadows show us.

Meat represents the deeper truths, and milk represents the basic, simpler truths. The 'shadow' teachings contain both, and yet, by their nature, they are like a bridge, to carry us from the milk to the meat. The 'shadows' of the real truth in Jesus take truth, put it in simplest form, and then allows, or encourages, deeper seeking into that ‘milk’ truth, to find a ‘meat’ revelation.


I Corinthians 10:11
“these things (the shadows of the Old Testament), written for our admonition’


Hebrews 8:4-5
“Who serve as an example and shadow of heavenly things”


Hebrews 10:1
“... law having a shadow of good things to come...”

Yes, the 'shadows' announced before the literal coming of Jesus, how, and why He would come. They illustrate beautifully. We do not need to do animal sacrifices, for we see now in Jesus the fulfillment of such. If anyone were doing animal sacrifice to be saved, they would be out of order. Yet, to look and admire the picture of those sacrificial lambs in the O.T., gives us joy and peace in Jesus, the fulfillment of that shadow. We do not go back to animal sacrifice, or trusting the picture and shadow of Jesus to be salvation. Galatianism was what Paul spoke of in Hebrews as doing that. Yet, he (though adamant about not going back to trusting those sacrifices as salvation, still showed us that the 'shadows' are now for our example and our admonitions in our glorious new covenant.

The words ‘shadow’, ‘example’, ‘pattern’... all contain the idea we refer to as ‘types’. Types are used to prefigure some person, thing, or event that would appear in the future. Types are a ‘sort of’ prophecy. Prophetically, types show us what was to come.... and the type shows the foreknowledge and planning of an Almighty God.

Our God laid out the feasts, the sacrifices, and did it as shadows to announce and picture the reality found in Jesus. What beauty there is in the feasts. What joy we have in looking at how Jesus is so wonderfully prophesied by them.

 

[Frogster]

In Corinth, Paul could not believe they got seduced so easily, by Judaistic forces. That is why he feared, he understood the spiritual dynamics, and ramifications.




2 Cor 11:1 I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! 2 For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.


Same here, they "put up with it', they ate that stufff up!



2 Cor 11:19 For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20 For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face. 21 To my shame, I must say, we were too weak for that!

Now we see what Paul saw.


They, the false teachers had lofty arguments also, like in Col 2.


2 Cor 10:5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,



The frog has handily shown alot of text, with fne expository.

alrighty now...

 

[Frogster]

In the Written Word of God there is Milk and meat for us to eat. Paul preached about these spiritual giants in Hebrews, and about all the 'shadows' in the Old Testament. We are to feed on the truths of milk and of meat, and enjoy the revelation of what those Old Testament shadows show us.

Meat represents the deeper truths, and milk represents the basic, simpler truths. The 'shadow' teachings contain both, and yet, by their nature, they are like a bridge, to carry us from the milk to the meat. The 'shadows' of the real truth in Jesus take truth, put it in simplest form, and then allows, or encourages, deeper seeking into that ‘milk’ truth, to find a ‘meat’ revelation.


I Corinthians 10:11
“these things (the shadows of the Old Testament), written for our admonition’


Hebrews 8:4-5
“Who serve as an example and shadow of heavenly things”


Hebrews 10:1
“... law having a shadow of good things to come...”

Yes, the 'shadows' announced before the literal coming of Jesus, how, and why He would come. They illustrate beautifully. We do not need to do animal sacrifices, for we see now in Jesus the fulfillment of such. If anyone were doing animal sacrifice to be saved, they would be out of order. Yet, to look and admire the picture of those sacrificial lambs in the O.T., gives us joy and peace in Jesus, the fulfillment of that shadow. We do not go back to animal sacrifice, or trusting the picture and shadow of Jesus to be salvation. Galatianism was what Paul spoke of in Hebrews as doing that. Yet, he (though adamant about not going back to trusting those sacrifices as salvation, still showed us that the 'shadows' are now for our example and our admonitions in our glorious new covenant.

The words ‘shadow’, ‘example’, ‘pattern’... all contain the idea we refer to as ‘types’. Types are used to prefigure some person, thing, or event that would appear in the future. Types are a ‘sort of’ prophecy. Prophetically, types show us what was to come.... and the type shows the foreknowledge and planning of an Almighty God.

Our God laid out the feasts, the sacrifices, and did it as shadows to announce and picture the reality found in Jesus. What beauty there is in the feasts. What joy we have in looking at how Jesus is so wonderfully prophesied by them.

again, our shadow word in Col and Hebrews, was the lesser, to not go to, that is a fact.

red above, where is all this feast joy from Paul?

besides, learning from the OT is fine, but why did Paul fear feast observance?

I proved he did.

 

[Frogster]

ok, fine, the frog will post something that I learned from the OT.


Gal 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”

 

[Frogster]

In the Written Word of God there is Milk and meat for us to eat. Paul preached about these spiritual giants in Hebrews, and about all the 'shadows' in the Old Testament. We are to feed on the truths of milk and of meat, and enjoy the revelation of what those Old Testament shadows show us.

Meat represents the deeper truths, and milk represents the basic, simpler truths. The 'shadow' teachings contain both, and yet, by their nature, they are like a bridge, to carry us from the milk to the meat. The 'shadows' of the real truth in Jesus take truth, put it in simplest form, and then allows, or encourages, deeper seeking into that ‘milk’ truth, to find a ‘meat’ revelation.


I Corinthians 10:11
“these things (the shadows of the Old Testament), written for our admonition’


Hebrews 8:4-5
“Who serve as an example and shadow of heavenly things”


Hebrews 10:1
“... law having a shadow of good things to come...”

Yes, the 'shadows' announced before the literal coming of Jesus, how, and why He would come. They illustrate beautifully. We do not need to do animal sacrifices, for we see now in Jesus the fulfillment of such. If anyone were doing animal sacrifice to be saved, they would be out of order. Yet, to look and admire the picture of those sacrificial lambs in the O.T., gives us joy and peace in Jesus, the fulfillment of that shadow. We do not go back to animal sacrifice, or trusting the picture and shadow of Jesus to be salvation. Galatianism was what Paul spoke of in Hebrews as doing that. Yet, he (though adamant about not going back to trusting those sacrifices as salvation, still showed us that the 'shadows' are now for our example and our admonitions in our glorious new covenant.

The words ‘shadow’, ‘example’, ‘pattern’... all contain the idea we refer to as ‘types’. Types are used to prefigure some person, thing, or event that would appear in the future. Types are a ‘sort of’ prophecy. Prophetically, types show us what was to come.... and the type shows the foreknowledge and planning of an Almighty God.

Our God laid out the feasts, the sacrifices, and did it as shadows to announce and picture the reality found in Jesus. What beauty there is in the feasts. What joy we have in looking at how Jesus is so wonderfully prophesied by them.

red above, you mention meat, but actually those who wanted to go back to Judaism, were in need of milk in Hebrews, not the meat eaters. just sayin...

 

[murjahel]

1 Corinthians 5:7-8 (KJV)
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This is part of Paul's validation of the pictorial nature of the shadow that Passover was ... Paul did not treat it as 'evil' to see the beautiful prophetic nature of Passover... No need to run in fear of shadows that prophesied of Jesus' coming and His work.

 

[Frogster]

1 Corinthians 5:7-8 (KJV)
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This is part of Paul's validation of the pictorial nature of the shadow that Passover was ... Paul did not treat it as 'evil' to see the beautiful prophetic nature of Passover... No need to run in fear of shadows that prophesied of Jesus' coming and His work.

did he want them to actually keep passover? Nope!

there yo go again, who said it was "evil"?

Red above, Again tell Paul not to fear, i pointed out where he did..sooooo

 

[Frogster]

So after 16 pages, the facts stand, Paul fought, and feared the spiritual ramifications, and the dynamics, behind the keep the feast crowd.

Oh well....

 

[Frogster]

In other words, what I just said above is true, people can point out symbols, typologies, shadows, and other OT things, yet paul knew that too, but still feared, and did not want his churches involved in that stuff, and that fact stands, no matter how may OT things, or whatever is posted. And unrefutted fact stands, unless it can be proven wrong, which I have not been.

Ok, so we can talk about the flood also, but that does not change what Paul, in no uncertain terms, fought against, and yes, we can talk about Adam and Eve also.

 

[rick357]

So if you refuse to deal with what is written...abuse scripture to say what you wish it did....ignore any valid question asked...and make post after post to argue against something that was never proposed in the first place...this in your mind seems like victory...

Still the question remains since the feast of YHWH will lead you away from Jesus...do you celebrate christmass and easter and the other RCC instituted holidays?

 

[murjahel]

GALATIANISM

Paul was not teaching that the ‘shadows’ of the Old Testament were evil. He was teaching against what Bible scholars have called ‘Galatianism’. This is an error that erupted in the early church, where some wanted ‘non-Jews’, i.e. Gentiles, to have to become a Jew first, and observe all the initiatory and cultural traditions and laws, before becoming a Christian.

These Galatianism persons demanded that the Greek gospels were corrupt, and used only the original Hebrew gospel, that they soon corrupted with removal of some passages, and additions of other passages to back their heresies.

Most of these ‘galatianism’ people were in Asia Minor, Jews who had traditionally not even wanted Gentiles into their Judaism, and now saved to Jesus Christ, they carried some bigotry into their new faith. So, when the Gentiles began accepting Jesus in great numbers, and their traditions and laws were not being even recognized by these Gentile converts, some began to make them mandatory, so they could maintain their attitude of superiority over the Gentile converts.

Paul saw the evil in that, and spoke to the Jews in Galatia, very sternly. He did speak in a number of his epistles concerning that idea, while at the same time, cautioning all, both Jew and Gentile, that these feasts, sacrifices, shadows of truth shown in the Old Testament, were not sinful of themselves, but were pictures of ‘good things to come’, but now that the reality of Jesus and His salvation ministry for us, we behold, we love these shadows, but they are not any longer a means of salvation.

The Torah is not mandatory to follow Jesus, but it has many beautiful revelations prophetically given to illustrate what Jesus had just came to do. There was not then, nor is there now, any need to convert to Judaism to be saved. The Jewish converts to Christianity are not any more special to God than the Gentile converts who had never heard of Passover, Pentecost, lambs for sacrifice, etc.

Circumcision, as explained in the New Testament, is allowable, but never again mandatory. Water baptism became a witness to what ‘circumcision’ had been, but even it was not mandatory in the new covenant. Observing the feasts doomed no one, nor did it save anyone. Only Jesus is the Savior.
The High Priest is Jesus, and He entered into the throne room, as the earthly high priest had gone into the holy of holies on the day of atonement. Jesus did it once and for all, and to celebrate the day on which the high priest had done it once a year, was meant to be a celebration that now, we enter into that presence of God every time we pray, and can atone for sin every time we fail, for the blood is already sprinkled on the mercy seat of heaven.

Galatianism still is found in a few circles. Most Messianic Jews realize the atonement of Jesus for us, has made the feasts and sacrifices to be something to be thankful for their illustration, but we have the reality of all of which they only foreshadowed now.

Some call another error now to be ‘reverse Galatianism’. That is where some want all those familiar with the Old Testament shadows and types to completely forget their beautiful illustration, and not even mention those former shadows, not consider having lamb on Passover as observance of what Jesus did in fulfilling that type. Some want to doom anyone who is circumcised, bind up the Old Testament as though it were written by the devil, and pronounce curses on all who observe the beautiful shadows of the feasts. This is grievous to behold in a time when we are all to be unified around Jesus, not throwing out the God given pictures of what He came to do, not being Gentile Christians vs Jewish Christians.

Why do some Jewish Christians, or Old Testament appreciating Christians need to have separate congregations, separate buildings of worship? Too often the reason is that the Gentile converts, or those not being taught the beautiful shadow truths of the Old Testament typology, are callous, judgmental, and carnal acting toward them.

Reverse Galatianism errs greatly in demanding opposite of the galatianism. They want all Old Testament typology hated, and any Jewish Christians to become Gentiles before being saved. The two extremes are both wrong.

Today, some black Christians choose to worship in their own congregations. Some white Christians choose to worship in their own also. Unfortunately, the reason too often is that each group feels a bigotry in the others’ site. The prejudice there is like unto the prejudice of the galatianists vs the reverse galatianists. When we get to heaven, the Lord will have to sit some down, and vigorously scold the prejudiced, bigoted, biased, etc of the church so they can all meet around the throne in heaven to worship there together.

Some of each race have historical backgrounds, former memories of mistreatment by some with bigotry, that make them uncomfortable in mixed congregations. We cannot fault them for feeling a need to worship unhindered by such memories and thoughts, but we can work toward helping all of us realize that we are one in Christ, and skin color, traditions, cultural differences, are not evil, nor needs to be separate in the faith. That is our goal, and hindrance to such, stirring up of ungodly memories, is not Christ-like.

Paul said to worship on whatever day one chooses, eat meats or don’t eat them, celebrate the feasts or don’t celebrate them, but to love one another no matter what choices were made.

 

[Frogster]

GALATIANISM

Paul was not teaching that the ‘shadows’ of the Old Testament were evil. He was teaching against what Bible scholars have called ‘Galatianism’. This is an error that erupted in the early church, where some wanted ‘non-Jews’, i.e. Gentiles, to have to become a Jew first, and observe all the initiatory and cultural traditions and laws, before becoming a Christian.

These Galatianism persons demanded that the Greek gospels were corrupt, and used only the original Hebrew gospel, that they soon corrupted with removal of some passages, and additions of other passages to back their heresies.

Most of these ‘galatianism’ people were in Asia Minor, Jews who had traditionally not even wanted Gentiles into their Judaism, and now saved to Jesus Christ, they carried some bigotry into their new faith. So, when the Gentiles began accepting Jesus in great numbers, and their traditions and laws were not being even recognized by these Gentile converts, some began to make them mandatory, so they could maintain their attitude of superiority over the Gentile converts.

Paul saw the evil in that, and spoke to the Jews in Galatia, very sternly. He did speak in a number of his epistles concerning that idea, while at the same time, cautioning all, both Jew and Gentile, that these feasts, sacrifices, shadows of truth shown in the Old Testament, were not sinful of themselves, but were pictures of ‘good things to come’, but now that the reality of Jesus and His salvation ministry for us, we behold, we love these shadows, but they are not any longer a means of salvation.

The Torah is not mandatory to follow Jesus, but it has many beautiful revelations prophetically given to illustrate what Jesus had just came to do. There was not then, nor is there now, any need to convert to Judaism to be saved. The Jewish converts to Christianity are not any more special to God than the Gentile converts who had never heard of Passover, Pentecost, lambs for sacrifice, etc.

Circumcision, as explained in the New Testament, is allowable, but never again mandatory. Water baptism became a witness to what ‘circumcision’ had been, but even it was not mandatory in the new covenant. Observing the feasts doomed no one, nor did it save anyone. Only Jesus is the Savior.
The High Priest is Jesus, and He entered into the throne room, as the earthly high priest had gone into the holy of holies on the day of atonement. Jesus did it once and for all, and to celebrate the day on which the high priest had done it once a year, was meant to be a celebration that now, we enter into that presence of God every time we pray, and can atone for sin every time we fail, for the blood is already sprinkled on the mercy seat of heaven.

Galatianism still is found in a few circles. Most Messianic Jews realize the atonement of Jesus for us, has made the feasts and sacrifices to be something to be thankful for their illustration, but we have the reality of all of which they only foreshadowed now.

Some call another error now to be ‘reverse Galatianism’. That is where some want all those familiar with the Old Testament shadows and types to completely forget their beautiful illustration, and not even mention those former shadows, not consider having lamb on Passover as observance of what Jesus did in fulfilling that type. Some want to doom anyone who is circumcised, bind up the Old Testament as though it were written by the devil, and pronounce curses on all who observe the beautiful shadows of the feasts. This is grievous to behold in a time when we are all to be unified around Jesus, not throwing out the God given pictures of what He came to do, not being Gentile Christians vs Jewish Christians.

Why do some Jewish Christians, or Old Testament appreciating Christians need to have separate congregations, separate buildings of worship? Too often the reason is that the Gentile converts, or those not being taught the beautiful shadow truths of the Old Testament typology, are callous, judgmental, and carnal acting toward them.

Reverse Galatianism errs greatly in demanding opposite of the galatianism. They want all Old Testament typology hated, and any Jewish Christians to become Gentiles before being saved. The two extremes are both wrong.

Today, some black Christians choose to worship in their own congregations. Some white Christians choose to worship in their own also. Unfortunately, the reason too often is that each group feels a bigotry in the others’ site. The prejudice there is like unto the prejudice of the galatianists vs the reverse galatianists. When we get to heaven, the Lord will have to sit some down, and vigorously scold the prejudiced, bigoted, biased, etc of the church so they can all meet around the throne in heaven to worship there together.

Some of each race have historical backgrounds, former memories of mistreatment by some with bigotry, that make them uncomfortable in mixed congregations. We cannot fault them for feeling a need to worship unhindered by such memories and thoughts, but we can work toward helping all of us realize that we are one in Christ, and skin color, traditions, cultural differences, are not evil, nor needs to be separate in the faith. That is our goal, and hindrance to such, stirring up of ungodly memories, is not Christ-like.

Paul said to worship on whatever day one chooses, eat meats or don’t eat them, celebrate the feasts or don’t celebrate them, but to love one another no matter what choices were made.

red above, this is right outta galatians, Paul said..


10 You observe [particular] days and months and seasons and years!
11 I am alarmed [about you], lest I have labored among and over you to no purpose and in vain.

12 Brethren, I beg of you, become as I am [free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordinances], for I also have become as you are [[e]a Gentile]. You did me no wrong [[f]in the days when I first came to you; do not do it now].


There we have it, first came the Jewish calendar with all the nifty sounding stuff, incrementally drawing them in, then circumcision would follow.


There we have the fear too...


There is Paul saying he does not keep them, in 4:12.


Just like today, people get saved, then others, want to add on little treats to the gospel, get them all caught up in the stuff Paul fought off. He knew the ramifications, cut off frm Christ in 5:4, like Col 2:19.


So this basic point of mind, stands all through the thread, clear as a bell, ding ding!

 

[rick357]

red above, this is right outta galatians, Paul said..

10 You observe [particular] days and months and seasons and years!
11 I am alarmed [about you], lest I have labored among and over you to no purpose and in vain.

12 Brethren, I beg of you, become as I am [free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordinances], for I also have become as you are [[e]a Gentile]. You did me no wrong [[f]in the days when I first came to you; do not do it now].

There we have it, first came the Jewish calendar with all the nifty sounding stuff, incrementally drawing them in, then circumcision would follow.

There we have the fear too...

There is Paul saying he does not keep them, in 4:12.

Just like today, people get saved, then others, want to add on little treats to the gospel, get them all caught up in the stuff Paul fought off. He knew the ramifications, cut off frm Christ in 5:4, like Col 2:19.

So this basic point of mind, stands all through the thread, clear as a bell, ding ding!

Is that how you search the scriptures by adding the words you feel must have been left off...explains a lot

 

[murjahel]

GALATIANISM

Paul was not teaching that the ‘shadows’ of the Old Testament were evil. He was teaching against what Bible scholars have called ‘Galatianism’. This is an error that erupted in the early church, where some wanted ‘non-Jews’, i.e. Gentiles, to have to become a Jew first, and observe all the initiatory and cultural traditions and laws, before becoming a Christian.

These Galatianism persons demanded that the Greek gospels were corrupt, and used only the original Hebrew gospel, that they soon corrupted with removal of some passages, and additions of other passages to back their heresies.

Most of these ‘galatianism’ people were in Asia Minor, Jews who had traditionally not even wanted Gentiles into their Judaism, and now saved to Jesus Christ, they carried some bigotry into their new faith. So, when the Gentiles began accepting Jesus in great numbers, and their traditions and laws were not being even recognized by these Gentile converts, some began to make them mandatory, so they could maintain their attitude of superiority over the Gentile converts.

Paul saw the evil in that, and spoke to the Jews in Galatia, very sternly. He did speak in a number of his epistles concerning that idea, while at the same time, cautioning all, both Jew and Gentile, that these feasts, sacrifices, shadows of truth shown in the Old Testament, were not sinful of themselves, but were pictures of ‘good things to come’, but now that the reality of Jesus and His salvation ministry for us, we behold, we love these shadows, but they are not any longer a means of salvation.

The Torah is not mandatory to follow Jesus, but it has many beautiful revelations prophetically given to illustrate what Jesus had just came to do. There was not then, nor is there now, any need to convert to Judaism to be saved. The Jewish converts to Christianity are not any more special to God than the Gentile converts who had never heard of Passover, Pentecost, lambs for sacrifice, etc.

Circumcision, as explained in the New Testament, is allowable, but never again mandatory. Water baptism became a witness to what ‘circumcision’ had been, but even it was not mandatory in the new covenant. Observing the feasts doomed no one, nor did it save anyone. Only Jesus is the Savior.
The High Priest is Jesus, and He entered into the throne room, as the earthly high priest had gone into the holy of holies on the day of atonement. Jesus did it once and for all, and to celebrate the day on which the high priest had done it once a year, was meant to be a celebration that now, we enter into that presence of God every time we pray, and can atone for sin every time we fail, for the blood is already sprinkled on the mercy seat of heaven.

Galatianism still is found in a few circles. Most Messianic Jews realize the atonement of Jesus for us, has made the feasts and sacrifices to be something to be thankful for their illustration, but we have the reality of all of which they only foreshadowed now.

Some call another error now to be ‘reverse Galatianism’. That is where some want all those familiar with the Old Testament shadows and types to completely forget their beautiful illustration, and not even mention those former shadows, not consider having lamb on Passover as observance of what Jesus did in fulfilling that type. Some want to doom anyone who is circumcised, bind up the Old Testament as though it were written by the devil, and pronounce curses on all who observe the beautiful shadows of the feasts. This is grievous to behold in a time when we are all to be unified around Jesus, not throwing out the God given pictures of what He came to do, not being Gentile Christians vs Jewish Christians.

Why do some Jewish Christians, or Old Testament appreciating Christians need to have separate congregations, separate buildings of worship? Too often the reason is that the Gentile converts, or those not being taught the beautiful shadow truths of the Old Testament typology, are callous, judgmental, and carnal acting toward them.

Reverse Galatianism errs greatly in demanding opposite of the galatianism. They want all Old Testament typology hated, and any Jewish Christians to become Gentiles before being saved. The two extremes are both wrong.

Today, some black Christians choose to worship in their own congregations. Some white Christians choose to worship in their own also. Unfortunately, the reason too often is that each group feels a bigotry in the others’ site. The prejudice there is like unto the prejudice of the galatianists vs the reverse galatianists. When we get to heaven, the Lord will have to sit some down, and vigorously scold the prejudiced, bigoted, biased, etc of the church so they can all meet around the throne in heaven to worship there together.

Some of each race have historical backgrounds, former memories of mistreatment by some with bigotry, that make them uncomfortable in mixed congregations. We cannot fault them for feeling a need to worship unhindered by such memories and thoughts, but we can work toward helping all of us realize that we are one in Christ, and skin color, traditions, cultural differences, are not evil, nor needs to be separate in the faith. That is our goal, and hindrance to such, stirring up of ungodly memories, is not Christ-like.

Paul said to worship on whatever day one chooses, eat meats or don’t eat them, celebrate the feasts or don’t celebrate them, but to love one another no matter what choices were made.

Yes, we have a 'shadow' of prophetic fulfillments shown in the Old Testament. Paul spoke against what we call 'galatianism' but he did not condemn the 'shadows', nor our using them to remind us of the prophetic fulfillment that has come...

Colossians 2:17 (KJV)
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Hebrews 8:3-5 (KJV)
3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

God authored and created these shadows... they are wonderful and precious. Yet, Christ is BETTER, for they were but pictures.

I Corinthians 10:11
“these things (the shadows of the Old Testament), written for our admonition’


Hebrews 10:1
“... law having a shadow of good things to come...”

The 'shadows' announced before the literal coming of Jesus, how, and why He would come. They illustrate beautifully. We do not need to do animal sacrifices, for we see now in Jesus the fulfillment of such.

If anyone were doing animal sacrifices thinking they would bring salvation, they would be out of order. Yet, to look and admire the picture of those sacrificial lambs in the O.T., gives us joy and peace in Jesus, the fulfillment of that shadow. We do not go back to animal sacrifice, or trusting the picture and shadow of Jesus to be salvation.

Galatianism was what Paul spoke of in Hebrews as doing that. Yet, he (though adamant about not going back to trusting those sacrifices as salvation, still showed us that the 'shadows' are now for our example and our admonitions in our glorious new covenant.

The words ‘shadow’, ‘example’, ‘pattern’... all contain the idea we refer to as ‘types’. Types are used to prefigure some person, thing, or event that would appear in the future. Types are a ‘sort of’ prophecy. Prophetically, types show us what was to come.... and the type shows the foreknowledge and planning of an Almighty God.

We have wonderful pictures, showing us in type what Jesus did on the cross for us... We rejoice in them, we rejoice in the fulfillment process of them that we are in, and our Jesus Who has already redeemed us, is soon to come again...
Our God laid out the feasts, the sacrifices, and did it as shadows to announce and picture the reality found in Jesus. What beauty there is in the feasts. What joy we have in looking at how Jesus is so wonderfully prophesied by them