Sabbath was made for man

[Sophrosyne]

I'm pretty sure you read the above post trivializing Jesus and the cross with a so what attitude. It really shows they try to bypass Jesus. Who else does this?

They aren't bypassing Jesus, they claim they accept him but in reality Moses is their mediator not Jesus because Moses was the Mediator of the Law. The Law is a DEAD end because Moses is DEAD. I choose to have a Mediator that lives.

 

[Gibs]

It is obvious, that you both have missed the point, that Jesus Christ was born of woman, Mary and He was the son of man and the son of God as He was conceived in Mary by God.

Now at that time God came and dwelt in Him in all fullness,

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

The body was prepared for LORD of Hosts, Yahweh, who performed the union,

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Fully, God the Father dwelt in Christ's body!

Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Fully, God the Father dwelt in Christ's body!

This is unorthodox and non trinitarian theology and NOT allowed to be promoted here.

 

[Gibs]

I would like to discuss what is really orthodox and what isn't and the solid basis for orthodoxy but I suppose that is a no go subject too.

You still can believe the father in Christ and still be a Trinitarian and I could show you but from how you and scratch take things you would disagree.

I leave you to your way of seeing things as I know you will not see different nor will I.

So let us say goodbye. Bro. Gibs

 

[Sophrosyne]

I would like to discuss what is really orthodox and what isn't and the solid basis for orthodoxy but I suppose that is a no go subject too.

You still can believe the father in Christ and still be a Trinitarian and I could show you but from how you and scratch take things you would disagree.

The problem is that you cannot discuss things that lead to non trinitarian beliefs in GT..... you can discuss them in the Unorthodox area. I see no use of discussing it here because when you disagree it would fall outside the rules to post it... not to mention you are OFF TOPIC of the thread.

I leave you to your way of seeing things as I know you will not see different nor will I.

So let us say goodbye. Bro. Gibs

Umm..... you've said this before and then summarily keep posting your "way of seeing things" in our faces here. In other words you aren't LEAVING when you say you are.

 

[from scratch]

It is obvious, that you both have missed the point, that Jesus Christ was born of woman, Mary and He was the son of man and the son of God as He was conceived in Mary by God.

Now at that time God came and dwelt in Him in all fullness,

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

The body was prepared for LORD of Hosts, Yahweh, who performed the union,

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Fully, God the Father dwelt in Christ's body!

Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

I still really don't see your point. Why the sudden interest in God becoming a man?

 

[from scratch]

I would like to discuss what is really orthodox and what isn't and the solid basis for orthodoxy but I suppose that is a no go subject too.

You still can believe the father in Christ and still be a Trinitarian and I could show you but from how you and scratch take things you would disagree.

I leave you to your way of seeing things as I know you will not see different nor will I.

So let us say goodbye. Bro. Gibs

No one could support such an idea just from reading the Gospels.

I'm not worried you'll most likely be back.

 

[FredVB]

I have been accused before in other places, I don't want that, and it isn't appopriate in this forum, when I am asking something which should be done with searching things out.

In Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus was saying he did not come to do away with, or destroy, what is written in the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill those things. It is understood by some that fulfilling was doing away with those things, but is something more said from God's word to show that, instead of the fulfillment providing for judgment to be diverted from the redeemed, who are saved through Jesus Christ? They are to repent, and so be saved from sin, so there is still morality for them to live by, which others are not faithful to. Even for the Sabbath, which he was asked about a few times, he just was saying things like, What man among you would not lay hold of your fallen sheep to lift it up, on the Sabbath? It is therefore lawful to do good on the Sabbath, Matthew 12:11-12, Mark 3:1-6, Luke 6:6-11. He was then never saying anything that suggested it was no longer to be observed, when he could have, and would have, if it was true.

Would being led by the Spirit come to doing things that are contrary to what is said in the commandments, even when God's word is revealed through his Spirit?

Concerning the trinity of God, I have seen the claim before about those speaking for the Sabbath being in denial of the trinity. In reality there isn't that connection. If some argue against the trinity, I effectively speak for it. And it is true the Father is in Christ. This is even with the Father and Logos who came as the Son being distinct, as persons would be. And the Son is in the Father as well.

 

[from scratch]

I have been accused before in other places, I don't want that, and it isn't appopriate in this forum, when I am asking something which should be done with searching things out.

In Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus was saying he did not come to do away with, or destroy, what is written in the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill those things. It is understood by some that fulfilling was doing away with those things, but is something more said from God's word to show that, instead of the fulfillment providing for judgment to be diverted from the redeemed, who are saved through Jesus Christ? They are to repent, and so be saved from sin, so there is still morality for them to live by, which others are not faithful to. Even for the Sabbath, which he was asked about a few times, he just was saying things like, What man among you would not lay hold of your fallen sheep to lift it up, on the Sabbath? It is therefore lawful to do good on the Sabbath, Matthew 12:11-12, Mark 3:1-6, Luke 6:6-11. He was then never saying anything that suggested it was no longer to be observed, when he could have, and would have, if it was true.

Would being led by the Spirit come to doing things that are contrary to what is said in the commandments, even when God's word is revealed through his Spirit?

Concerning the trinity of God, I have seen the claim before about those speaking for the Sabbath being in denial of the trinity. In reality there isn't that connection. If some argue against the trinity, I effectively speak for it. And it is true the Father is in Christ. This is even with the Father and Logos who came as the Son being distinct, as persons would be. And the Son is in the Father as well.

I'd like to respond but anything said that doesn't agree with you is a personal attack. And you'll just on and on about it.

 

[FredVB]

I can't see that Jesus Christ saying that he came to fulfill the law and the prophets was doing away with those things, but still is something more said from God's word to show that really is meant, instead of the fulfillment from Christ providing for judgment to be diverted from the redeemed, who are saved through Christ? They are to repent, and so be saved from sin, and there is still the morality to live by that many don't do.

Yahweh shows his grace, love, and compassion for us, not wanting any to perish, but all were to come to repentance, with salvation made available through Christ. With this we are not going to be left with facing the fair judgment for our failures to live as we should, shown in what God said. Repenting with Christ living with us is with enabling us, and we are to turn to then live as we should, being led and guided for that, in obedience, and the good we should do is to come from that. It is not the same as being saved with doing those good things, because any good we do does not cover the bad things we have been doing. The real good that we would come to do shows the grace, love, and compassion that we know from God, and which we need, and which we share with others with whom we have anything to do. If we say love fulfills everything and yet are not actually showing love, then evidently there is not fulfillment of anything, and if there was, things that should have been done, with loving Yahweh God in response to him, will be done.

Isaiah 56 speaks of grace from Yahweh which will reach Israel and way more than Israel. All, the remnant of Israel and the others who were foreign and join in obedience, would be brought to God's holy mountain, to be made joyful in his house of prayer. This is where the wolf dwells with the lamb, the leopard with the young goat, the calf and the young lion and the fatling together with the little child, the cow and the bear grazing together with their young, the lion having straw with the ox, the nursing child safely by the cobra's hole, and no hurt or killing ever. That has not really happened yet, it is in the future. Who will those who are brought be? All of them, people of Israel and those of foreigners, are who join themselves to Yahweh to serve him and love his name, and keep from defiling the Sabbath, they are blessed for keeping justice and doing righteousness, keeping from doing any evil, even anything hurtful to others, this is being said.

And in response to the post about the body prepared for Yahweh, the heavenly Father and Logos who came as Christ the Son are in union together, being Yahweh. Christ the Son was the incarnation, with the union the Father was in him and he was in the Father. There was always the union, save evidently in the crucifixion for the atonement, where Christ was cut off, feeling forsaken. The cost was greater than what we can know, for us. We can only respond to him, knowing we should change our lives, without reserve, for him, may he indeed lead us.

 

[Cribstyl]

I can't see that Jesus Christ saying that he came to fulfill the law and the prophets was doing away with those things, but still is something more said from God's word to show that really is meant, instead of the fulfillment from Christ providing for judgment to be diverted from the redeemed, who are saved through Christ? They are to repent, and so be saved from sin, and there is still the morality to live by that many don't do.
...........

One issue at a time is the best way to honest study.

It seem clear that Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets is not just speaking about the law, but rather, all what the books of the law (Moses) and the prophets prophesied about Jesus. Not one dot or comma will change from what is written by all the prophets.
Jesus said that; Heaven and earth would cease to exist if God's word fails.

The 4 gospels and the NT made it clear when a prophecy was fulfilled.

Mat 1:22
Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

Mat 2:15
And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Mat 2:17
Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,

Mat 2:23
And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

Mat 4:14
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

Mat 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mat 8:17
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Mat 12:17
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
Mat 13:14
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Mat 13:35
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Mat 21:4
All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,

Mat 26:54
But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Mat 26:56
But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Mat 27:9
Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;

Mat 27:35
And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

 

[Cribstyl]

Mar 14:49
I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

Mar 14:50
And they all forsook him, and fled.





Mar 15:28
And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.


Using the keyword 'fulfilled' in NT each book, we can see that Jesus meant that He came to fulfill all that was written in the OT about Him. (Matt 5:17-19)

 

[Cribstyl]

Luk 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Above text is clear proof what Jesus meant in Matt 5:17-19

SDA commenatary have made these scriptures seem only about an eternal and unchangeable law.
The truth is: Change from the law was prophesied in The law and the Prophets.
Rom 3:21
¶ But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[Angelquill]

Thanks but no thanks. I'll stick to the Bible, thank you. I believe what it says and there isn't room for or evidence that the Sabbath was made for mankind.

Are you seriously kidding, here?
OF COURSE, there is "evidence".
Unless you are calling Jesus Christ a liar, now...

Mar_2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar_2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

 

[Gibs]

I take note the Sabbath, the seventh day is the only day out of His seven that He hallowed and blessed and there is a reason for that.

It is His rest and that alone is reason to know it is a hallowed and blessed day!

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 ¶ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[Sophrosyne]

If man had not sinned then the Sabbath day would be meaningless therefore the Sabbath Day was made for sinners.

 

[Gibs]

Actually according to Enoch the Sabbath was kept in Heaven before earth.

Also the Sabbath was instituted in earth also and before sin and Adam and Eve without doubt kept and yes even after they sinned.

Also the first yr. on earth was a Jubilee yr., a new beginning and the first Sabbath was in sync with Heaven.

Never has it been changed and the recurring cycles of 7 never have been broken and will continue into all eternity future.

Heaven also keeps Sabbath with the ones on earth that do!

 

[Sophrosyne]

Actually according to Enoch the Sabbath was kept in Heaven before earth.

Also the Sabbath was instituted in earth also and before sin and Adam and Eve without doubt kept and yes even after they sinned.

Also the first yr. on earth was a Jubilee yr., a new beginning and the first Sabbath was in sync with Heaven.

Never has it been changed and the recurring cycles of 7 never have been broken and will continue into all eternity future.

Heaven also keeps Sabbath with the ones on earth that do!

Nonsense, you are contradicting yourself the Sabbath wasn't made for Angels or God but for man according to the scripture you are promoting to hoodwink Christians into keeping the Sabbath.

 

[Gibs]

Nonsense, you are contradicting yourself the Sabbath wasn't made for Angels or God but for man according to the scripture you are promoting to hoodwink Christians into keeping the Sabbath.

I keep Sabbath, and I leave you and all free to choose to or not.

Many are hoodwinking folks to not keep the Holy Sabbath and that is a dire thing to teach for sure.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I keep Sabbath, and I leave you and all free to choose to or not.

Many are hoodwinking folks to not keep the Holy Sabbath and that is a dire thing to teach for sure.

How do you keep it?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7430788-4/#post55591200
This Thread Will End All Debate On The Sabbath Once And For All

Matt 24:
19 "Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling in those the days!
20 Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a Sabbath/sabbatw <4521>"

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

*snip*

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers...........


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