Rapture Before Wrath

[Riberra]

If you understood REvelation, then the large group, too large to number, seen in Rev. 7 around the throne would be your very clear verse.

The Bible clearly identify who are these from the large group too large to number seen in Rev 7:9
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=REV+7&version=KJV

The answer is given in Rev 7:13-14
Rev 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

-These are they which came out of great tribulation,-and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Do you notice that verse 14 did not say:
these are those who were accounted worthy to ESCAPE -(be rapture BEFORE) - the great tribulation.

 

[Bible2]

TPeterY said in post 241:

You try to survive the 7 years to reach the millennium, but you're not protected by the Seal of God. Only the 144,000 are.

Note that the 144,000 will all be Christians (Revelation 14:1,4), and so they will all be part of the church (cf. Ephesians 4:4-6). They will be the firstfruits of the church (Revelation 14:4), in the sense of its best part (cf. Numbers 18:12). They will be male virgins (Revelation 14:4), who could all have been born in the 20th or 21st century, and who could all already be part of the church. For they will all be alive on the earth, and will all already be God's servants (Revelation 7:3; cf. Romans 6:22, Philippians 1:1), by the time of Revelation 7:3-8, during the first stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will have entered the tribulation along with the rest of the church alive at that time, for there will be no pre-tribulation rapture (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Matthew 24:29-31, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Also, the 144,000, who are of the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:4-8), can include both Jews and Gentiles in the church. For just as all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), which is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

The tribe of Dan is missing from the list of the 144,000's twelve tribes (Revelation 7:4-8; there, "Joseph" stands for Ephraim: Numbers 1:32, Psalms 78:67, Ezekiel 37:16b,19) because the Israel they are from isn't genetic Israel with its 12 genetic tribes which include Dan (Genesis 49:28,17), but rather spiritual Israel (Romans 9:6-8), which consists of all the elect (Romans 9:11-13), both elect Jews and elect Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

TPeterY said in post 241:

. . . you're not protected by the Seal of God. Only the 144,000 are.

While at the future point in time of Revelation 7:2-4, only the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church (Revelation 14:1,4) will be sealed for physical protection, all obedient people in the church will still be spiritually protected during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, no matter what happens to them physically (Romans 8:35-37). Also, before Revelation 7:2-4 happens, the 144,000, along with some others, will be physically protected so that they will survive the tribulation's first stage (in Revelation 6), while others will die and their souls will enter heaven (Revelation 7:9,14). It is near the end of this first stage that the 144,000 will be sealed (Revelation 7:3-4) for physical protection before the unsealing of the 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). The first 6 trumpets' events, up to Revelation 9:19, will be the tribulation's 2nd stage. The seal which the 144,000 will receive (which will be different from and in addition to the seal of the Holy Spirit himself which they and all others in the church receive: Ephesians 1:13) will physically protect them during this 2nd stage (Revelation 9:4).

After the 2nd stage, the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church will be caught up in their mortal bodies as the "man child" to God's throne in heaven (Revelation 12:5, Revelation 14:4-5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:1). Right after the 144,000 are caught up, the tribulation's 3rd stage, the literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will begin (Revelation 12:5-6). This time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5-18, Revelation 14:9-13).

The 144,000 will remain in heaven before God's throne (Revelation 14:5, Textus Receptus) during the time of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 14:9-13, Revelation 13:5-18), while 2 other parts of the church will still be on the earth: the figurative "woman" who represents those in the church who will flee into prepared wilderness places and be physically protected (Revelation 12:6,14); and the remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17), those in the church who will remain in the cities and not be physically protected, but will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

After the Antichrist's reign is declared legally over at the sounding of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). These vials (Revelation 16) will be the tribulation's 4th and final stage. Because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of these vials will be directed at those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had built for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:7). So some in the church will survive the entire future tribulation on the earth. They are those who will still be "alive and remain" at Jesus' 2nd coming to be raptured (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). These survivors will have experienced God's miraculous physical protection (Psalms 91) without having to have been part of the 144,000.

 

[Bible2]

iamlamad said in post 244:

John shows us in Rev. 7 that at the time of the rapture it will be "great tribulation" around the world.

Note that Revelation 7:9-17 doesn't require a pre-tribulation rapture. For in Revelation 7:9-17, the great multitude can be only that part of the church (Revelation 7:14b) which will enter the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and then come out of it (Revelation 7:14) and enter heaven (Revelation 7:15) by dying (cf. Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8) during the 2nd through 6th seals in the chapter just prior (Revelation 6), the tribulation's first stage.

This would be similar to how the souls of "them that were slain for the word of God", who will be under the altar in heaven at the 5th seal (Revelation 6:9-11), will enter heaven by dying sometime before the 5th seal. And it would be similar to how those in the church who will be on the sea of glass in heaven (Revelation 15:2, cf. Revelation 12:11) at the tribulation's 7 last plagues (Revelation chapters 15-16), the tribulation's final stage, will enter heaven by dying during the just-preceding, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

Regarding the rapture, note that no scripture requires that believers will be raptured any higher than the clouds of the sky (the 1st heaven) to hold a meeting in the air with Jesus at his 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17). After that meeting, in which the church will be judged by Jesus (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27), and the obedient part of the church will be married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7, Matthew 25:1-13), the obedient part of the church will come back down from the sky (the 1st heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:15-21) to reign on the earth with him for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). After the 1,000 years and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), the obedient part of the church will live on the new earth with God the Father and Jesus in the literal city of New Jerusalem (Revelation chapters 21-22).

*******

iamlamad said in post 246:

God's wrath begins in Rev. chapter 6

Note that the tribulation's 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12), as in only a few years before. The day of the Lord itself won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't happen until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). Similarly, the day of the Lord's wrath (Psalms 110:5) won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21).

So the people quoted at the 6th seal (Revelation 6:17), during only the first stage of the tribulation, could be just as mistaken as Job was when Job said that what was happening to him was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11). Just as what was happening to Job was actually Satan's wrath against him, not God's wrath, so the 6th seal could actually be Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. And just as the writer of the book of Job didn't go out of his way to correct Job's mistaken statement in Job 19:11, and just as the apostles John and Matthew didn't go out of their way to correct the mistaken statements of the people they quoted in John 7:12b and Matthew 27:63a, so the apostle John could have not gone out of his way to correct the statement of the people he quoted in Revelation 6:17.

After the tribulation's 6th seal will occur its 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come its 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). Note that nothing requires that any of the first 6 trumpets' events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will be God's wrath. The 5th trumpet's events will be the work of strange locust-like beings from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:2-10), led by a fallen angel from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:11). And the 6th trumpet's events to the end of Revelation 9 will be the work of weird horse-like beings led by 4 fallen angels previously bound at the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-19). So even though good angels of God will sound the first 6 trumpets, this could be announcing God's allowing the wrath of Satan to destroy 1/3 of different things (Revelation 8:7-12, Revelation 9:15,18), just as Satan will subsequently, mid-tribulation, be allowed by God to cause 1/3 of the angels (i.e. his fallen angels) to be cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:4,9).

Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will happen before the Antichrist's (the individual-man aspect of the beast's) future, literal 3.5-year worldwide Luciferian/Satanic reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). And the events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 could be used by Satan to help prepare the world to welcome that reign. For what he could do is first take great pleasure in causing the destruction in each event, but then claim that the destruction isn't from him, but from YHWH, and that YHWH is a cruel tyrant god who hates mankind and only wants to make it suffer, while he (Satan, as "Lucifer") only wants the best for mankind (cf. Mark 8:33b). In this way, he could deceive the world into turning away from YHWH and instead worshipping him (the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

After the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year reign (Revelation 13:5-7) is declared legally over at the sounding of the tribulation's 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly-temple opening of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). The vials will then be poured out on the Antichrist's followers as God's judgment for their receiving the Antichrist's mark and worshipping his image (Revelation 16:2), and for their killing of people in the church (Revelation 16:6-7, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

During the Antichrist's worldwide reign, people in the church will be hated and killed in every nation for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4), for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus himself isn't the Christ (1 John 2:22), and that Christ himself isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God (Revelation 20:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), for refusing to depart from the Biblical faith and to give heed instead to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1-2). They will be beheaded for refusing to worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 20:4, Revelation 13:15). And all of this will be Satan's wrath against the church (Revelation 12:17), not God's wrath, for the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Even when God's wrath comes in the 7 vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of the vials will be directed at any of those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have prepared for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had prepared for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:11,13).

Jesus will return right after the 7th and last vial is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21, Matthew 24:29-30), and he will bring the 2nd-coming wrath of God on the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21). But before that 2nd-coming wrath begins, the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the 1st heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and the armies of the world (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

 

[Bible2]

BABerean2 said in post 249:

Many are confused by the Book of Revelation because they insist that it must be totally chronological . . .

Note that Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are chronological insofar as the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed and out of it will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).

Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the world's armies (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3) and reign on the earth with the physically resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.

BABerean2 said in post 249:

The harvest of Rev. chapter 14 and the events of chapters 16 and 19 cannot be chronological.

Revelation 14:14-16 refers to Jesus sitting on a single cloud in the 3rd heaven and reaping into the 3rd heaven (beginning mid-tribulation) the souls of those in the church who will be killed (Revelation 14:13) by the Antichrist during his future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will be during the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will be killed for refusing to worship the Antichrist and his image, and refusing to receive his mark (Revelation 14:9-16, cf. Revelation 15:2, Revelation 20:4-6).

Revelation 14:19-20 can refer to the Antichrist's killing of non-Christians who won't worship him (such as radical Muslims, ultra-Orthodox Jews, hardcore atheists, etc.) being God's wrath against those non-Christians. Revelation 14:20 could refer to when they get beheaded by the Antichrist (say, while they are kneeling), their blood will shoot up from their necks like a geyser as high as a horse's bridle. Also, in Revelation 14:20, the city could be Jerusalem, and the 1,600 furlongs is about 200 miles, so that Revelation 14:19-20 could mean that the Antichrist's beheading of people who won't worship him will begin at Jerusalem and the surrounding region, when he sits (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), and has the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the temple (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

But when the Antichrist beheads Christians for not worshipping him (Revelation 20:4), this won't be God's wrath against those Christians, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:17).

BABerean2 said in post 249:

The harvest of Rev. chapter 14 and the events of chapters 16 and 19 cannot be chronological.

Only after the destruction of Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" at the 7th vial, the final event of the tribulation (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2), will Jesus return and rapture (gather together) and marry the church (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

Mark 13:20 can mean that all flesh on the earth would die if the Lord hadn't already shortened, as in "he hath shortened" (Mark 13:20b), the number of days of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. The Lord could have already determined, from the beginning of Creation (cf. Isaiah 46:10), that he will return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). And the Lord will return "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), immediately after its final event, the worldwide destruction during the 7th vial (Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6). So Mark 13:20 can mean that if the Lord hadn't shortened the number of days of the tribulation, then all flesh on the earth would die during the 7th vial's aftermath, which could be a nuclear-winter scenario (which the Lord will miraculously prevent at his return) brought on by the 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire nuking the cities of the earth at the 7th vial (Revelation 17:16-17a, Revelation 16:19).

 

[Bible2]

bibletruth469 said in post 257:

God works in dispensations throughout history, age of the church and the future tribulation , then in the millennium.

Note that there is no such thing as the age of the church, for the church will continue in the world throughout all ages (Ephesians 3:21, John 17:15). For just as the church will continue in the world throughout the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), and then throughout the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), so the church will then continue forever on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).

bibletruth469 said in post 257:

Replacement theology is false.

Note that even though the church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10), the church doesn't "replace" Israel, because Gentiles in the church are grafted in to become only parts of an already-existing Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, John 10:16), which also includes the Jews in the church (Romans 11:1).

Also, immediately after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-30), all the still-living, unsaved, elect genetic Jews will become saved (Romans 11:26-28) by God's grace when they see the returned Jesus in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, just as when genetic Jews believe in Jesus now they become part of the church. For now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

And the genetic Jews who will become believers at the 2nd coming will all become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, who is "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zechariah 12:10 (Hebrews 10:29c, Romans 8:26), just as genetic Jewish believers today become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit. For it is by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both genetic Jewish believers and genetic Gentile believers become part of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13).

Also, if the genetic Jews who will become saved at the 2nd coming had been religious Jews, they won't continue to mistakenly try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, because they will then be believers in the truth that on Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the 2nd covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12).

All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, and shouldn't keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21), or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12).

 

[NannaNae]

Donoh.. what are you talking about?
YOU are talking about the law and salvation ..I give up. what in this world and in all of our records of God has he ever ever done that he didn't use people who knew him first and almost exclusively uses them , and does little else with out them ? you call that law , but I call that love I call it overcoming..... it is going to be a concert, the question remains who will know their place/ actor and their job / oil ! is drums more important than the Violins ?

The answer is to know Him who wrote it , as long as you keep asking the wrong questions fellas you will keep getting the wrong answers guys .

It isn't over until he appears .. there is work to do until he appears .

There is no LaLa land. NO it won't be party time! but there is a rapture at the 7th trumpet ... it just ain't to LaLa land.
but that doesn't mean some people aren't here or there or every place even by his will for 3 1/2 years doing his work in concert with him. this takes real faith and real knowledge of the one who's spirit help write that book !
not the puff and stuff we call faith or proclaiming or salvation.. salvation for some is "some by fire" because they are with their own 'knowledge". he isn't going to tell your mind what your heart should know or learn first , because it has to really know him first.

I'm done... bye ,, love you all!
I'll be praying for you !

 

[iamlamad]

Donoh.. what are you talking about?
YOU are talking about the law and salvation ..I give up. what in this world and in all of our records of God has he ever ever done that he didn't use people who knew him first and almost exclusively uses them , and does little else with out them ? you call that law , but I call that love I call it overcoming..... it is going to be a concert, the question remains who will know their place/ actor and their job / oil ! is drums more important than the Violins ?

The answer is to know Him who wrote it , as long as you keep asking the wrong questions fellas you will keep getting the wrong answers guys .

It isn't over until he appears .. there is work to do until he appears .

There is no LaLa land. NO it won't be party time! but there is a rapture at the 7th trumpet ... it just ain't to LaLa land.
but that doesn't mean some people aren't here or there or every place even by his will for 3 1/2 years doing his work in concert with him. this takes real faith and real knowledge of the one who's spirit help write that book !
not the puff and stuff we call faith or proclaiming or salvation.. salvation for some is "some by fire" because they are with their own 'knowledge". he isn't going to tell your mind what your heart should know or learn first , because it has to really know him first.

I'm done... bye ,, love you all!
I'll be praying for you !

Thank God you are gone! That means one less here spreading false doctrine.
THERE IS NO RAPTURE AT THE 7TH TRUMPET! That is false doctrine. The 7th trumpet sounds to mark the exact midpoint of the 70th week, the moment the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God.

God's will is that all believers really and truly believe Luke 21:36 and are found worthy to be raptured before the 70th week begins.

LAMAD

 

[iamlamad]

Bible2 wrote:

iamlamad said in post 244:

John shows us in Rev. 7 that at the time of the rapture it will be "great tribulation" around the world.
​

Note that Revelation 7:9-17 doesn't require a pre-tribulation rapture.

THE TRUTH IS, Rev. 7 shows us the raptured church in heaven before John even begins the 70th week.
THE TRUTH as written in John 14 is that Jesus went to prepare mansions for us in heaven, and will come and take us to those mansions at the rapture.

LAMAD

 

[iamlamad]

Bible2 wrote,

iamlamad said in post 246:

God's wrath begins in Rev. chapter 6
​

Note that the tribulation's 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12), as in only a few years before. The day of the Lord itself won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming...

THE TRUTH IS, John shows us the Day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath (Same thing) comes in chapter 6, NOT in chapter 19. Bible2 does not believe Rev. 6:17
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


LAMAD

 

[NannaNae]

Thank God you are gone! That means one less here spreading false doctrine.
THERE IS NO RAPTURE AT THE 7TH TRUMPET! That is false doctrine. The 7th trumpet sounds to mark the exact midpoint of the 70th week, the moment the man of sin enters the temple and declares he is God.

God's will is that all believers really and truly believe Luke 21:36 and are found worthy to be raptured before the 70th week begins.

LAMAD

your just jealous that my false doctorines sound better than your false dotorines.....ROTF!

everyone doctrines is false and true.... the more truth the the better the lie..... just know him! ignore me please! just know him!
NOW you are going through the part you think you are going through.,. and you need to be ready for it.. get that oil ready stay awake .. but maybe stay out of my business!
so I will pray for you I think you might need it .
I think we all will need lots and lots of prayer!!
which is my business !

Aren't all things involved with THE real God both marvelous and terrible!
well this 2nd to the last time/ 2 to the last war with hell and death and men who were convinced of something , won't be any different.

 

[iamlamad]

Bible2 wrote,
After the tribulation's 6th seal will occur its 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come its 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). Note that nothing requires that any of the first 6 trumpets' events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will be God's wrath.

THE TRUTH IS, God gets angry at the 6th seal when the Day of the Lord begins and STAYS ANGRY throughout the book of Revelation. Jesus Christ the SON is angry at the battle of Armageddon.

Joel chapter 1 tells us the cattle are perplexed because they have no pasture, because the FIRE has burned up all the grass of the pastures.

Joel 1
15Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
18 How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture; yea, the flocks of sheep are made desolate.
19 O Lord, to thee will I cry: for the fire hath devoured the pastures...
20 The beasts of the field cry also unto thee: for the rivers of waters are dried up, and the fire hath devoured the pastures of the wilderness.This prophecy will be fulfilled at the first trumpet:

This prophecy will be fulfilled at the first trumpet judgment.

Rev. 8
7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

Joel TELLS US that this is a part of the Day of the Lord, and a part of the day of His WRATH.

THE TRUTH IS, God's wrath begins in Revelation chapter 6 (17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?) and continues on through Revelation until after the battle of Armageddon.

LAMAD

 

[iamlamad]

The Bible clearly identify who are these from the large group too large to number seen in Rev 7:9
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=REV+7&version=KJV

The answer is given in Rev 7:13-14
Rev 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

-These are they which came out of great tribulation,-and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Do you notice that verse 14 did not say:
these are those who were accounted worthy to ESCAPE -(be rapture BEFORE) - the great tribulation.

You make a practice in pulling verses out of context. The context here in Rev. chapter 7 is between the 6th and 7th seals. This entire chapter is written as a parenthesis or intermission between the 6th and 7th seal. John wrote of seals 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, with no breaks inbetweeen. But before John could write of the 7th seal, (or before the 7th seal can be broken in reality) two events absolutely must take place: the church MUST BE RAPTURED OUT BEFORE GOD'S WRATH BEGINS and the 144,000 must be sealed.

If you pay attention to John's chronology, John has not yet even started or opened or begun the 70th week of Daniel in Revelation yet, because the 70th week begins with the 7th seal and the 30 minutes of silence.

If you believe John, you should know that the days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of will not begin until AFTER the abomination that divides the week into two halves. This will take place in chapter 11, and we are talking about chapter 7. THE TRUTH IS, the chapter 7 events ABSOLUTELY MUST take place just where John has written them, BEFORE the 70th week and God's wrath begins. If you will believe John, He tells us that God's wrath begins with the great earthquake at the 6th seal (The Day of His wrath has come.) The rapture, although written about in chapter 7, will actually take place a moment before the earthquake of the 6th seal, but John saw the effects of the rapture - the great crowd too large to number in heaven - and wrote of it in chapter 7.

So you tell us - HOW could this crowd be in heaven before the 70th week has even started, and LONG before the days of great tribulation Jesus spoke of will come (the days of Great tribulation Jesus spoke of comes AFTER the abomination which will happen in chapter 11) if they came out of the very "great tribulation" Jesus spoke of? The answer is, they simply could NOT have come out of "those days" of "great tribulation" Jesus spoke of.

THE TRUTH IS, at the time of the rapture, people will be dying for their testimony around the world.....VERY MUCH like is happening in the world today. So John tells us just what the world will be like at the time of the rapture: great tribulation will be taking place - meaning nothing more than people will be beheaded for their testimony (exactly what is happening in the world NOW). How could "tribulation" be any greater for those who have been beheaded? They certainly cannot be beheaded over and over again! But this is NOT the days of GT that Jesus spoke of.

If you will read carefully, there is NOTHING written about these in chapter 7 that would even hint that they lost their head to get to heaven - as is written here:

Rev. 20:4
...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

There is no doubt at all, these in Rev. 20 came out of the days of Great Tribulation Jesus spoke of, and they got out of it by refusing the mark and losing their head.

Notice, this is in Rev. 20. These are the very same people as John wrote of here:

Rev. 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

These are shown in heaven by getting victory over the Beast. HOW did they get victory over the Beast? Rev. 20 tells us how - by losing their heads.

So WHERE in Revelation will be the days of Great tribulation Jesus spoke of? They will begin after the abomination in Rev. 11. John did not see it so did not write of it, but it takes place at the same time the 7th trumpet is sounded in Rev. 11. So the days of GT will begin there and build and get MUCH WORSE when the Beast and False Prophet get the IMAGE set up and the MARK established and then begin to behead all who refuse to worship the image. These events will be taking place in chapters 15 and 16.

Therefore is is simply IMPOSSIBLE that this group seen in Rev. 7 is speaking of those same people beheaded by the Beast. No, they are seen in heaven LONG BEFORE the Beast will come.

LAMAD

 

[BABerean2]

The two witnesses are clearly raptured at the time of the 7th trumpet.

The text plainly says they are killed, they are resurrected, and they ascend into a cloud while their enemies watch.

Some on this forum may try to tell you this is not a rapture.

However, the text speaks the truth of God's Word.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

There are some who will deny what is written in the text to promote their false doctrine.

God has provided us the truth in his Word.

When some are corrected their next step is to always ridicule those who speak the truth.

They fear the exposure of their doctrine.

We are commanded to speak the truth in love.
.

 

[TPeterY]

That is logical in the context that the apostles were hoping to see Jesus Second Coming during their lifetime .

Luke 17:22
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

No, this is not even remotely close to logic.

Here's why. Look at what you underlined in Luke 17:22: "And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see" Apparently this is all you're looking at to form your own conclusion.

You left out the most important part of the message in the verse: "one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it."

Now look again at the ENTIRE verse the way it's suppose to be read.

Luke 17:22
And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

The verse reads,

1) You will want to see ONE of the days of Son of Man.

2) But you will NOT see it.

3) None of the days in that verse could be 2000 years ago because His disciples can see Him as He's talking to them, and the verse said you will NOT see it.


Riberra, this verse is simple and straightforward, if this is that hard to understand, in addition to declaring no such thing as the rapture, the 2nd half of the tribulation a total of 5 months and Jesus returning at the 7th trumpet, you lack competence and shouldn't give out advise on prophecy.



.

 

[TPeterY]

You claim that "you and others" have proven this information is not correct in the past. You are going to have to do a little better than that.

Here's a message written to you from BW taken from the link I gave you off of post #182.

Almost every point being made by this poster has already been clearly demonstrated to be incorrect, and the rest of them are immaterial. But instead of admitting this, he just continues to dishonestly re-post the same material in place after place, just as if it had not been already thoroughly disproved.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7810638-19/

And I myself have shown you several external links proving the rapture was taught prior to Darby dating back to the first century Churches where the teachings of the "catching away" or "caught up" before God's wrath by the early church fathers.



.

 

[TPeterY]

The two witnesses are clearly raptured at the time of the 7th trumpet.

The text plainly says they are killed, they are resurrected, and they ascend into a cloud while their enemies watch.

Some on this forum may try to tell you this is not a rapture.

However, the text speaks the truth of God's Word.

That's not a rapture. You even said so in your second sentence.

Calling it a rapture by using the resurrection of the two witness as your support is just.........false.

Do you know the difference between a rapture and a resurrection?




.

 

[shturt678s]

The "two witnesses", ie, our Lord sends the Word (witnesses, prophets) and, when its task is done in the wicked world, He withdraws it as one sees around them today in/out of the Churches where each denomination think they have one one valid Word and Witnesses...stunning!

Don't pay that much attention as only an opinion from a lower paygrade at that,

Old Jack

 

[Riberra]

No, this is not even remotely close to logic.

Here's why. Look at what you underlined in Luke 17:22: "And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see" Apparently this is all you're looking at to form your own conclusion.

No ,i have underlined that part to show that Jesus was addressing these words specifically to the apostles who were hoping to see Jesus second advent during their lifetime .

You left out the most important part of the message in the verse: "one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it."

Now look again at the ENTIRE verse the way it's suppose to be read.

Luke 17:22
And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

The verse reads,

1) You will want to see ONE of the days of Son of Man.

2) But you will NOT see it.

3) None of the days in that verse could be 2000 years ago because His disciples can see Him as He's talking to them, and the verse said you will NOT see it.

Riberra, this verse is simple and straightforward, if this is that hard to understand,

All depend of your definition of -one of the days of the Son of man.-
My interpretation is that one of the day was Jesus First Advent
The other day will be Jesus Second Advent.
Do you agree with that? if not tell us what is your interpretation.

, in addition to declaring no such thing as the rapture,

No such thing as a pre-tribulation rapture.

the 2nd half of the tribulation a total of 5 months

The second half of the tribulation will be shortened in perfect agreement with the Bible.

Source:
Link
A Biblical chronology of end-time events


A Biblical chronology of end-time events:Back to list at top of page
Here are the events of the last five months immediately prior to the Second Advent of Jesus Christ that will happen exactly as prophesied in God's Word. We will pick it up at the instructions from Jesus Christ to those who know the truth about the antichrist and are being persecuted during the final days by satan (antichrist) and the deceived ones who are doing his handy work Albeit, most of them, will be doing it in ignorance:

Luke 12:8-12(Christ speaking)8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say. (KJV)
​

Verses {8-10} above pertain God's Elect in the end times (whom you will notice are on earth, not drifting in some Rapture cloud), these Elect will be called upon to deny the true Jesus in the trials that the antichrist shall hold (Jesus will be denied in that the people will be worshipping the false christ). In verse{11} it is speaking of the events at the end of times during satan's five month reign as antichrist. It is the Elect of God being delivered up to the Synagogue of satan for a witness against him before the world. Sadly, many of those who have been mislead with a Rapture doctrine (among others) will actually cause God's Elect to be delivered up to death, that is to say, deliver them up to satan (antichrist) whom is death. 'Death' is simply one of satan's many many names:

Heb 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. (KJV)
​

They will do it not because they are evil, they really do not know what they do, but the antichrist has deceived them. He (antichrist) will tell them something like: "Let's save more of the people before I bring the Rapture about, bring them to me that do not believe that I am the Messiah from God and I will show them signs and wonders, and in mercy I shall convert their hearts to the truth." But in reality, they are delivered up death - satan. And deceived Christians (Rapturists, Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses...) as well as Muslims, Buddhists, Jews... shall betray the 'true to Christ' Christians (God's Elect) to death. But God Himself will protect His Elect:

Luke 21:12-19 (speaking to God's Elect)
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls. (KJV)
​

A Chronology:
A chronology of events leading up to end of the age:

Satan, as antichrist, will be given power from God to deceive most of the world*1. But it is written that some will stand against satan and not bow a knee to the antichrist*2. These are known as the Election Of Grace, spoken of as the 7000*3.Satan, by means identified in scripture, will locate and seize God's Election, who are men and women who reject satan as the false christ and refuse to bow to him*4. Satan will deliver some of these Elect up to 'Sanhedrins' (synagogues and councils) to attempt to "convert" them and make them worship the antichrist as True Messiah*5. But they will not. In fact it is through the Elect's testimony at these councils (that will no doubt be carried live on satellite, to the whole world), that the 144,000, known as the "Sealed Of Israel", written of Scripture*6, will become aware of the true identity of the antichrist and resist, refusing to worship him as True Messiah.

Scriptural documentation for above points:
​

1. {Lk 21:12-15}, {Rev 9:1-11}, {Mk 24:4-15}.
2. {Mk 13:9-11}, {Mt 24:9-13}, {Lk 21:12-15}, {Dan 11:44}.
3. {1st King 19:18}, {Rom 11:1-5}.
4. {Lk 21:16}, {Mk 13:12}, {Mt 24:10}.
5. {LK 12:11}, {Mk 13:9}, {Mt 24:9}.
6. {Rev 7:1-10}.

At this point, the end is very near. The "Two Witnesses", who have been sent earlier from God to lead His Elect in resisting the antichrist, and whom are spoken of in{Rev 11:3-19; below } are murdered by antichrist and his misguided followers. Their dead bodies are left to rot in the street in public view.
This is done by the religious community at the time, the one-world religion; And don't think it can't happen, for have you forgotten the reformation and the millions of people burnt as heretics by the Catholic Church who then confiscated their land and belongings? See: The darkest period of the Papacy. It is also eerily reminiscent of the religious community that called for Christ's crucifixion: "...they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him." {John 19:6}:

Rev 11:3-19
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
​

At this point, I would imagine that some who thought that they were really worshiping Jesus Christ begin to get a sick feeling in the pit of their stomachs as they reason within themselves that the True Christ would never do this. They think back to the true Word of God and know that they were warned of this in the Bible, but they had rejected God's True Word instead opting to follow "feel good" doctrines of men. But of course if they were to try to back out now they themselves would be murdered by mob rule, as antichrist has by now stirred the masses into a frenzy. Yes, murdered by the very "Christian Brothers" that had deceived them in the first place. It now sets in: They have been bought and paid for, they have been marked by the beast, and they thought they were such good little Christians; they should have listened to God's Word not the words of men. Put this in the back of your mind and remember this for all you are worth, it still at this time is not to late to repent. If you sadly find yourself like the one above, repent immediately for the time is by now very short!

Deut 4:29-31
29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them. (KJV)
​

Three and a half days later, as prophesied in the Bible, in full view of the whole world (no doubt carried live to the world by live real-time satellite broadcast), God audibly calls the Two Witnesses back to life and they rise up into Heaven in the sight of men. We are now within one literal hour of Jesus Christ's return, commonly known as the Second Advent.

 

[Riberra]

Rev 11:3-19(Cont)
11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe [6th trump] is past; and, behold, the third woe [7th trump] cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. (KJV)
​

I guess I don't have to tell you that God is not too happy with those who not only did not listen to His Word, but they killed His True followers for not bowing to the antichrist. Beloved, this is where false doctrines and false teachers/preachers will lead you. Study God's Word and rebuke any man that tries to teach you something contrary to what's in your Bible. God saw to it that you would have The True Word of God for a reason, don't throw that away for the imaginations of vain spiritually dead men.
What can we do then? Are we doomed to participate in this abomination? How can we come to know God's truth? How will we know the truth when we see it? How can you know this author is telling you right?
It's simple, study God's Word for yourself. It is absolutely necessary that you begin to build on a solid Biblical foundation, or you can never hope to understand and overcome. Beloved, it is imperative that you check out this author and/or any other person that would presume to bring the Word of God to you! You do that by looking in your Bible to document what someone is teaching you, and if they are trying to teach you something that goes against what the Bible says, then it's time to find a new teacher. No man is perfect, we all make mistakes, but what I am talking about is someone who would tell you things that are contrary to the very core and foundation of what God tells you in the Bible.
And there's more: You have been given free will (save the Elect) to follow God or to follow satan, you must ASK God to show you the True way. Many people wonder why God allows people to become evil and to do harm in this world. As with everything God does there is a very good reason for this: God seeks only your true love for Him, everything else is incidental. The sole reason for our time here on earth is to determine if we will love God and Jesus, or satan and the ways of this world. You remember that in the first earth age one third of God's children turned against Him and chose satan. See: When was Thee beginning?
And to have true love for God generate within us, God had to give us free will to make a choice. Otherwise, if God programmed us to love Him it wouldn't mean anything. You can't make someone love you and have it to be true love. And God will abide by His own rules and accept the fact that some will forsake Him and instead turn to satan again. He will not interfere with your free will, or it could not be called your own free will! The Elect have not free will to a certain degree, see the The Feeling Of Frustration Sometimes Felt By The ElectIn-depth Bible Study.
So therefore; you must ASK God in your prayers, to help you find the true path that pleases Him, and tell Him that you love Him. He has emotions; we are created in His likeness and we have emotions, and when one of His beloved children, whom He created, tell Him that they love Him; it just makes His day! Jesus made us a promise about God's truth: Matt 7:7-8 (Jesus speaking)
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. (KJV)

 

[Riberra]

double post