Arminianism is untenable

[janxharris]

It is a metaphor.

It teaches about Jesus.

Need more?

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.


Jesus won't save you without your response to his call.

God's grace has appeared to all men. What we do about it determines our eternal destiny.

What would you say regarding Romans 9:30-32 and Romans 4:2-5?

 

[Hammster]

Anyway, back to to OP.

 

[Hammster]

So anyway, back to the OP.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Please provide any verse that actually says that. Check out Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2:8,9.

James 2
22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness, and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

Gal 6
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Romans 2
6 God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Matt 7:21
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

ps: 2:14 isn't the 'context' of the chapter. The question is in regards to being saved from "what", exactly. Is it the lake of fire? Why would anything think that in this book?

In fact, James gives us a very clear understanding of what he meant in the very next 2 verses:

15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

What's his point here? What do we call those who act like this? Hypocrites is what. Jesus used that word on the Pharisees many times. James is warning believers that they need to demonstrate their faith or they'll be charged with hypocrisy.

James even makes the point more clear in v.18 -
18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

iow, if one doesn't show their faith by works, others will not see it. This complements v.15-16 very well. If believers aren't meeting the needs of others, they aren't demonstrating their faith. So when they say they are Christians, but aren't demonstrating it, they are being hypocrites.

Given how often Jesus chided the legalistic Pharisees for being hypocrites, I have no doubt that left quite an impression on His half brother James, who grew up with Jesus.

But I'm aware of the RCC view that Mary was a perpetual virgin. But that doesn't affect the truth of Scripture. Jesus had brothers and sisters because the Bible says so.

Do you believe dead faith can save a person?

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Actually, it's becoming hard to take your posts seriously, if you aren't following this.


Yes. What does this have to do with having eternal life, vs having eternal life MORE ABUNDANTLY? Please answer.

Are you for real?

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Silly question. For a faith to be "dead" requires prior life. How can something be called "dead" that hasn't ever been "alive"?

When one believes in Christ for eternal life, that life is given to the believer THEN. They are saved THEN.

When one's faith isn't producing evidence (works), it is called "dead" by James. iow, it isn't functioning.

Does that mean the person is no longer saved? If that were true, then our salvation really depends upon our own efforrts.

My faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, who paid my entire sin debt and forgave me when I believed in Him.

Those who believe in loss of salvation are showing NO faith in Christ. That's for sure. All your faith is in your own efforts. Good luck with that.

Is your answer yes or no?

Will dead faith save you?

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Does that mean the person is no longer saved? If that were true, then our salvation really depends upon our own efforrts.

My faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, who paid my entire sin debt and forgave me when I believed in Him.

Those who believe in loss of salvation are showing NO faith in Christ. That's for sure. All your faith is in your own efforts. Good luck with that.

Hebrews 3:12-14 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called today, lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end."

1 Timothy 1:19 "Keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and their faith has been shipwrecked".

Hebrews 2:1 "Therefore we must pay greater attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away".

 

[Hammster]

Well, it appears that for Arminian to attempt to make a case that hell is just, they need to conclude that Christ kinda died for all, potentially atoned for sin, and sorta appeased God's wrath. In no way can they say that Christ actually took the punishment for their sin. Free will (not God's, of course) still reigns supreme.

 

[nobdysfool]

Nm.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Wrong.

The Greek word for "soul" was used for a living being, and the "death" here refers to physical death. Not eternal death.


.

That makes no sense. Are you saying that if someone turns a brother from a sinful path that they won't die here on earth?

Your reading of scripture is so tied to your dogma that you can't be logical.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

2 Peter 2:20-21 "They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way than to know it and to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them."

Why would anyone assume this refers to loss of salvation?

They were made free from sin by knowing Jesus. That's what salvation is. How could not being made free from sin be better unless the alternative was eternal separation from God?

How can anyone assume that this is not talking about losing salvation?

What do you think it is about?

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Apparently you are unfamiliar with the concept of "abiding" with Christ. It's a matter of fellowship, but since your view leaves no room for reward, why should I expect you to grasp the meaning of abiding as a fellowship term.

It's a matter of salvation. We MUST abide in Jesus or we will not be saved.

Could this be more clear?

6If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love.

 

[FreeGrace2]

That makes no sense. Are you saying that if someone turns a brother from a sinful path that they won't die here on earth?

Your reading of scripture is so tied to your dogma that you can't be logical.

This conversation is hijacking hammster's thread and he doesn't like it. Haven't you read his posts?

Since you've ignored all my points, verses, and questions, there is no point in further discussion.

 

[EmSw]

Well, it appears that for Arminian to attempt to make a case that hell is just, they need to conclude that Christ kinda died for all, potentially atoned for sin, and sorta appeased God's wrath. In no way can they say that Christ actually took the punishment for their sin. Free will (not God's, of course) still reigns supreme.

While you are bashing on Arminians, why don't you tell us what was the punishment for sin that Christ took.

You dodged this question before, like you were embarrassed to answer. So, I asked again, what was the punishment Christ took?

 

[Hammster]

While you are bashing on Arminians, why don't you tell us what was the punishment for sin that Christ took.

You dodged this question before, like you were embarrassed to answer. So, I asked again, what was the punishment Christ took?

Please, don't goad. If you aren't Arminian, either this thread doesn't apply to you, or you will also challenge their view. They know what it is.

 

[LadyOfMystery]

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[BobRyan]

Arminians insist that Jesus took the punishment for all sins. Yet, they admit that there are people in hell because of their sins. This makes God disingenuous because He punishes people for sins that His Son already paid for.

smh

That argument only works if you deny the 1John 2:2 fact that at the cross we have the "Atoning Sacrifice" for "our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world"

-- and also forget to notice that in Lev 16 (on the subject of "Atonement") you need BOTH the work of Christ as "Atoning sacrifice" the "Sin offering" but also the Heb 8:1-5 work of Christ as "High Priest" in heaven - to complete the entire Bible "scope" of atonement.

As Heb 4 and 8 point out we enter into benefit from that work of Christ as we each one choose to follow Him.

Rev 3 makes the point "I STAND at the door and knock.. if ANYONE hears my voice and opens the door I WILL come in".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Please, don't goad. If you aren't Arminian, either this thread doesn't apply to you, or you will also challenge their view. They know what it is.

I am Arminian - which means I accept the Bible teaching on free will and the Matt 18 teaching on forgiveness revoked - as also mentioned in Gal 5:4 "severed from Christ, fallen from grace" statements.

Christ paid our debt of sin -- our "certificate of debt" was nailed to the cross as Col 2 says (NASB).

our debt of sin - the 2nd death - paid for by Christ. Christians still suffer the first death.

But that payment is in the Bible model of "Atonement" according to God in Lev 16. And for that to be complete you need not only the "sin offering" slain - but also the work of the High Priest completed - the work that Heb 8 says Christ started when He went to heaven.

And as Heb 4 and 10 point out - we each choose to benefit from that part of the Atonement scope/process when we choose to accept Christ and follow Him.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Hammster]

That argument only works if you deny the 1John 2:2 fact that at the cross we have the "Atoning Sacrifice" for "our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world"

-- and also forget to notice that in Lev 16 (on the subject of "Atonement") you need BOTH the work of Christ as "Atoning sacrifice" the "Sin offering" but also the Heb 8:1-5 work of Christ as "High Priest" in heaven - to complete the entire Bible "scope" of atonement.

As Heb 4 and 8 point out we enter into benefit from that work of Christ as we each one choose to follow Him.

Rev 3 makes the point "I STAND at the door and knock.. if ANYONE hears my voice and opens the door I WILL come in".

in Christ,

Bob

One, if you think that 1 John 2:2 is going to save you, then there's no just reason for God to send anyone to hell.

Revelation 3 is written to a church.

Leviticus 16 only covered Israel. It's limited.