Arminianism is untenable

[Hammster]

The grace of Jesus enables us to obey, it frees us from the bondage of sin, but it doesn't force us to obey.

2 Peter 2:20
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

Obedience is not propitious. Christ is the propitiation. If obedience was propitious, Christ died for naught.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Obedience is not propitious. Christ is the propitiation. If obedience was propitious, Christ died for naught.

Wrong.

Christ died to give us a way to heaven. That is the propitiation. His grace is the free gift for mankind.

He knocks on the door offering salvation. We choose to accept or reject his offer.

If we accept, we must endure to be saved.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Why must efficacious grace be "forced"? Forced implies it was done against your will.

Whatever God causes is His will, not ours. Therefore, it is against, or "forced".

Why is that not clear?

 

[Hammster]

Wrong.

Christ died to give us a way to heaven. That is the propitiation. His grace is the free gift for mankind.

Redefining the word isn't the best way to argue.

He knocks on the door offering salvation. We choose to accept or reject his offer.

If we accept, we must endure to be saved.

There's no door knocking. He's not a Mormon.

 

[janxharris]

In fact, Arminians believe in election, too. They believe that election happened before the foundation of the world (not in-time).

Since both Calvinists and Arminians believe that election happened before the foundation of the world (because that's what the Bible teaches), if Calvinists are disingenuous by evangelizing, so are Arminians.

Arminianism, too, teaches that everyone born is either elect or non-elect. It's not as if a person changes his elect-status by believing the gospel. Election doesn't happen in time, it already happened before you were born. Due to God's foreknowledge, God has known "Bob" is either elect or non elect, before Bob was ever born.

Elect based on what they chose to do or not do.

 

[janxharris]

Simply because they complied with God's promise of life by looking to the serpent. Just as God promises eternal life for all who believe in His Son for eternal life. Jn 6:40

So, your argument really isn't one.

But, your argument against the arminians is legitimate. No one is sent to the lake of fire because of their sins, since Christ died for all of them. They are thrown into that lake because they don't have eternal life, which is a free gift that is received when one believes in Christ. Jn 1:12, 1 Tim 1:16. Believe, and receive. It's just that simple.

John 8:24
"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."

 

[catholichomeschooler]

There's no door knocking. He's not a Mormon.

Rev. 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

 

[Hammster]

Elect based on what they chose to do or not do.

God reacts.

 

[Hammster]

Rev. 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.

So He knocked on the door of a local congregation.

 

[janxharris]

God reacts.

No.

 

[Hammster]

No.

God sees who will believe and then chooses to save them. That's reacting.

 

[janxharris]

God sees who will believe and then chooses to save them. That's reacting.

He has always known.

 

[Hammster]

He has always known.

So He's also known who wouldn't believe. No need to die for those folks.

 

[janxharris]

So He's also known who wouldn't believe. No need to die for those folks.

You think such a God would actually induce faith in people - a God that shows favouritism and elects at whim? Seriously?

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 8:24
"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."

Jesus would have been disingenuous if Calvinism were true. He was warning the unbelieving crowd of the consequence of not believing in Him, as well as the promise of what happens for those who do believe.

Very clearly.

 

[Hammster]

You think such a God would actually induce faith in people - a God that shows favouritism and elects at whim? Seriously?

No.

 

[FreeGrace2]

God reacts.

Never. God acts. Always. If He reacts, then that would prove that He is not omniscient.

But since there is no argument about God's omniscience, there is no reason to try to infer that jan's view is that God reacts. Why try to infer error into another's view, just because it isn't yours?

 

[FreeGrace2]

God sees who will believe and then chooses to save them. That's reacting.

God doesn't ever have to "see who will believe", because He is omniscient. Therefore, He has always known who will believe.

Which is what 2 Pet 1:1-2 says.

1 Peter 1:1
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen

1 Peter 1:2
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Real clear: God chooses "according to His foreknowledge". Not according to His "crystal ball".

 

[FreeGrace2]

So He's also known who wouldn't believe. No need to die for those folks.

Unless He is proving a point. Care to guess what point that might be?

 

[catholichomeschooler]

So He knocked on the door of a local congregation.

It is a metaphor.

It teaches about Jesus.

Need more?

John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.


Jesus won't save you without your response to his call.

God's grace has appeared to all men. What we do about it determines our eternal destiny.