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catholichomeschooler
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He offers. We accept or reject.
Without him we can't please God.
With him we can, but we can choose not to.
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Arminianism is untenable
- Thread starter Hammster
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He offers. We accept or reject.
Without him we can't please God.
With him we can, but we can choose not to.
- Apr 5, 2007
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That's still not dealing with Christ satisfying God's wrath.
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nobdysfool
The original! Accept no substitutes!
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The propitiation is not offered to us, it was offered to God. The Propitiation was between God the Father, and Jesus the Son. The RESULT of the Propitiation makes it possible for us to be Justified before the Father. Jesus WAS the Propitiation, and His sacrifice was one-time for all who believe. We are not involved in any part of the propitiation except the result of it.
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God's wrath (I think I said that.)
I know this seems basic, but for me to understand your point, what is G-d's wrath?
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Have you ever heard a little story about a flood? Red Sea? Ground opening up and swallowing folks?
Basically it's His anger at sin.
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EmSw
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Have you ever heard a little story about a flood? Red Sea? Ground opening up and swallowing folks?
Basically it's His anger at sin.
If Christ was slain before the foundation of the world, why was God's wrath around during the flood? the Red Sea? and so forth?
How is it you say God's wrath was satisfied when these things occurred? Was it partially satisfied? Did God's wrath 'arise from the ashes' after Jesus was slain?
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Your rhetorical questions have done a great job in making my point. Thanks.
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Skala
I'm a Saint. Not because of me, but because of Him
In fact, Arminians believe in election, too. They believe that election happened before the foundation of the world (not in-time).
Since both Calvinists and Arminians believe that election happened before the foundation of the world (because that's what the Bible teaches), if Calvinists are disingenuous by evangelizing, so are Arminians.
Arminianism, too, teaches that everyone born is either elect or non-elect. It's not as if a person changes his elect-status by believing the gospel. Election doesn't happen in time, it already happened before you were born. Due to God's foreknowledge, God has known "Bob" is either elect or non elect, before Bob was ever born.
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EmSw
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There's a first time for everything. Mark me down as your first Hammster.
Romans 2 -
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Obey His truth, and you will not be given unto His wrath.
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FreeGrace2
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Simply because they complied with God's promise of life by looking to the serpent. Just as God promises eternal life for all who believe in His Son for eternal life. Jn 6:40
So, your argument really isn't one.
But, your argument against the arminians is legitimate. No one is sent to the lake of fire because of their sins, since Christ died for all of them. They are thrown into that lake because they don't have eternal life, which is a free gift that is received when one believes in Christ. Jn 1:12, 1 Tim 1:16. Believe, and receive. It's just that simple.
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catholichomeschooler
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The grace of Jesus enables us to obey, it frees us from the bondage of sin, but it doesn't force us to obey.
2 Peter 2:20
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
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