Eusebius the Preterist

[Copenator]

So what is the preterist response to Matthew 24-25? Do they maintain that the gospel was preached to the whole world and so the end was in 70 yrs?

Do you believe the gospel was preached to the whole world in the first century?

 

[Evergreen48]

Do you believe the gospel was preached to the whole world in the first century?

The gospel was preached in the whole world as they knew the whole world to be. The whole world to them was the whole of the Roman empire.

 

[parousia70]

So what is the preterist response to Matthew 24-25? Do they maintain that the gospel was preached to the whole world and so the end was in 70 yrs?

Well, from the commandment to go and preach the gospel, to "the end" was 40 years, (A Biblical generation) not 70 years, but it was in 70AD.

And Yes, We believe Paul as he testifies under divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit that the gospel was indeed preached to the whole world, to all nations, and to every creature under heaven by the mid 60's AD:

Colossians 1:5-6 (NKJV) because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, 6 which has come to you, as it has also in all the world, and is bringing forth fruit, as it is also among you since the day you heard and knew the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 1:23 (NKJV) if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Romans 1:8 (NKJV) First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Paul said that the gospel was made known to all nations.

Romans 16:25-26 (NKJV) Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began 26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith;

As for Jesus' words being conditional, yes they were conditioned upon the Jews saying blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. They didn't which is why the city was destroyed. The fact that one day they will say it tho is not conditional.

Again who is they? who do you say is "all Jews"? All Jews from all time living or dead? or is it some subset of all those Jews??

Further, I have explained "this generation" as being a generation of the earth, and not the people. Jesus spoke this way about the re-generation. He was not speaking of a generation of our people but of the earth obviously.

Matthew 1:17
So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

To be consistent, Lets apply your interpretation of "The Earth" to the passage above:

So all the EARTHS from Abraham to David are fourteen EARTHS, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen EARTHS, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen EARTHS.



A Biblical Generation is 40 years.

Jesus understood this. So should we.

 

[Copenator]

The gospel was preached in the whole world as they knew the whole world to be. The whole world to them was the whole of the Roman empire.

I 100% understand and agree. My intent was for Rev to clarify his position. It was somewhat unclear in his quote that I pointed out.

 

[Evergreen48]

I 100% understand and agree. My intent was for Rev to clarify his position. It was somewhat unclear in his quote that I pointed out.

 

[Jack Terrence]

So what is the preterist response to Matthew 24-25? Do they maintain that the gospel was preached to the whole world and so the end was in 70 yrs?

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:23

Does this answer your question my good friend?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The gospel was preached in the whole world as they knew the whole world to be. The whole world to them was the whole of the Roman empire.

Look at this word is used in the NT, including Revelation:

Greek Lexicon :: G3625 (YLT)
Strong's Number G3625 matches the Greek οἰκουμένη (oikoumenē),
which occurs 16 times in 15 verses in the Greek concordance

Luke 2:1
Became yet in the days, those, came out decree beside Caesar Augustus to be being registering every the being-homed/oikoumenhn <3625> .

3625. oikoumene oy-kou-men'-ay feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication, of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:--earth, world.
3624. oikos oy'-kos of uncertain affinity; a dwelling (more or less extensive, literal or figurative); by implication, a family (more or less related, literally or figuratively):--home, house(-hold), temple.
3306. meno men'-o a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

1. the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians
2. the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire
3. the whole inhabited earth, the world
4. the inhabitants of the earth, men

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Look at this word is used in the NT, including Revelation:

Greek Lexicon :: G3625 (YLT)
Strong's Number G3625 matches the Greek &#959;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#965;&#956;&#8051;&#957;&#951; (oikoumen&#275;),
which occurs 16 times in 15 verses in the Greek concordance

Luke 2:1
Became yet in the days, those, came out decree beside Caesar Augustus to be being registering every the being-homed/oikoumenhn <3625> .

3625. oikoumene oy-kou-men'-ay feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by implication, of 1093); land, i.e. the (terrene part of the) globe; specially, the Roman empire:--earth, world.
3624. oikos oy'-kos of uncertain affinity; a dwelling (more or less extensive, literal or figurative); by implication, a family (more or less related, literally or figuratively):--home, house(-hold), temple.
3306. meno men'-o a primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy):--abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

1. the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in distinction from the lands of the barbarians
2. the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire
3. the whole inhabited earth, the world
4. the inhabitants of the earth, men

Man, the more I look at this greek word, the more I want to study on it!

Ezekiel 7:1
And a word of Yahweh is becoming to me to say of "and thou, Son of 'adam, thus He says my Lord Yahweh "to ground of Yisra'el
2 An end comes! the end on four corners of the Land".
[Revelation 20:8]

Matt 24:14
"And shall be being proclaimed this, the Good-Message of the Kingdom, in whole the one being-homed/oikou-menh <3625>, into a witness to all the nations, and then shall be arriving the End

Romans 10:18
But I am saying 'no not they hear?
Indeed-surely into all the landcame-out the voices of them and into all the ends of the being-homed/oikou-menhV <3625> the declarations of.

Reve 3:10
That thou keep the Word of the endurance of Me also I shall be keeping thee out of the hour of the trial, of the one being about to be coming upon of the whole being-homed/oikou-menhV <3625>,
to try the ones homing/kat-oikountaV <2730> (5723) upon the land.


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[Rev20]

The Epistle Of Ignatius To The Philadelphians
Chap. VI.--Do Not Accept Judaism.

But if any one preach the Jewish law(9) unto you, listen not to him. For it is better to hearken to Christian doctrine from a man who has been circumcised, than to Judaism from one uncircumcised. But if either of such persons do not speak concerning Jesus Christ, they are in my judgment but as monuments and sepulchres of the dead, upon which are written only the names of men. Flee therefore the wicked devices and snares of the prince prophets, but denies Christ to be the Son of God, he is a liar, even as also is his father the devil,(10) and is a Jew falsely so called, being possessed of(11) mere carnal circumcision.[/indent]

I was puzzled how you might have misjoined two parts of Chap.VI (e.g., "prince prophets"), until I looked at the original book by Roberts & Donaldson (ANF01,1913). The publisher (or printer) was scatterbrained, to say the least. On page 82, Chapter VI ends abruptly with the word "prince", then continues on page 83 with "of this world". At the conclusion of that paragraph, one must turn back to page 82 to complete the chapter, beginning with, "If any one preaches the one God of the law and the prophets, but denies Christ..."

 

[Rev20]

No. Here is Daniel 9 broken down in detail:

I will start by saying Rome is the abomination which maketh desolate. The Roman Church is the Great Harlot and Mother of Abominations of the Earth.

The Roman Church has not killed a single prophet; yet Jesus said the blood of all the prophets is on (both) the Great Harlot named Babylon (Rev 18:20,24) and the Harlot named Jerusalem (Isaiah 1:21; Luke 11:50-51). Therefore, Babylon the Great of the Revelation cannot be the Roman Church.

At the decreed end the desolator will receive the judgments of Revelation 18. Now let us determine when the 70 weeks start. After Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, the Hebrews returned to Jerusalem in two main migrations, but Daniel stayed in the capitol of the Persians. …

There are as many different interpretations of Daniel's 70 weeks are there are interpreters. Which one should we believe?

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Luke 13:34-5.

So where did the Jews say as a whole "Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord?" They didn't, and that is why Jerusalem was destroyed. So they did not see Him again according to His own word, and there has been no second coming.

How do you know they did not say, "Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord?" There were not a lot of eyewitnesses remaining after the Roman armies finished their destruction.

Maybe they said it when they saw the armed soldiers, in their chariots, flying around in the clouds-- the supernatural event that Josephus and Tacitus wrote of. Or maybe they said it when they saw Jesus
angels coming to gather his elect. Jesus said would occur before their generation passed away.

One other point: where does it say those who said "Blessed is He … " at his coming would be saved? Wouldn't it have been too late to be saved if they waited until his coming to say it?
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[Rev20]

So what is the preterist response to Matthew 24-25? Do they maintain that the gospel was preached to the whole world and so the end was in 70 yrs?
As for Jesus' words being conditional, yes they were conditioned upon the Jews saying blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. They didn't which is why the city was destroyed. The fact that one day they will say it tho is not conditional. And the fact that he will come again is not conditional. Further, I have explained "this generation" as being a generation of the earth, and not the people. Jesus spoke this way about the re-generation. He was not speaking of a generation of our people but of the earth obviously.

Jesus came to gather his elect (the real Saints) in AD 70. That resurrection is discussed in Rev 20 as the "first resurrection". The second resurrection (the one for you and me) will occur after Satan is defeated, explained later in Rev 20.

I noticed that some have already responded to your question about Matt 24:14. I would like to add the following; some of which may be a repetition of that already posted. First, this is "all the world" in the New Testament:

"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed." -- Lk 2:1​

Therefore, "all the world" was the Roman Empire. Jesus gave these instructions to his disciples:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Mat 24:14 KJV)​

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15 KJV)​

And much later Paul made these statements:

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." (Rom 10:17-18 KJV)​

"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:" (Col 1:5-6 KJV)​

"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" (Col 1:23 KJV)​

Do those statements by Paul mean that Jesus' instructions in Matthew 24:14 and Mark 16:15 were fulfilled? Yes. They were fulfilled exactly as Christ instructed: to all the world, and to every creature.

Consider also 1 Clement 5:7:

"... and having preached righteousness to the whole world, and having come to the extremity of the West, and having borne witness before rulers, he departed at length out of the world, and went to the holy place, having become the greatest example of patience."​

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Der Alter

The Epistle Of Ignatius To The Philadelphians
Chap. VI.--Do Not Accept Judaism.

But if any one preach the Jewish law(9) unto you, listen not to him. For it is better to hearken to Christian doctrine from a man who has been circumcised, than to Judaism from one uncircumcised. But if either of such persons do not speak concerning Jesus Christ, they are in my judgment but as monuments and sepulchres of the dead, upon which are written only the names of men. Flee therefore the wicked devices and snares of the prince prophets, but denies Christ to be the Son of God, he is a liar, even as also is his father the devil,(10) and is a Jew falsely so called, being possessed of(11) mere carnal circumcision.​

[/INDENT]

I was puzzled how you might have misjoined two
parts of Chap.VI (e.g., "prince prophets"), until I looked at the original book by Roberts & Donaldson (ANF01,1913). The publisher (or printer) was scatterbrained, to say the least. On page 82, Chapter VI ends abruptly with the word "prince", then continues on page 83 with "of this world". At the conclusion of that paragraph, one must turn back to page 82 to complete the chapter, beginning with, "If any one preaches the one God of the law and the prophets, but denies Christ..."

So in a nutshell, what does all that mean to the common layman reader of the Bible?



.

 

[RevelationTestament]

Jesus came to gather his elect (the real Saints) in AD 70. That resurrection is discussed in Rev 20 as the "first resurrection". The second resurrection (the one for you and me) will occur after Satan is defeated, explained later in Rev 20.

I noticed that some have already responded to your question about Matt 24:14. I would like to add the following; some of which may be a repetition of that already posted. First, this is "all the world" in the New Testament:

"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed." -- Lk 2:1​

Therefore, "all the world" was the Roman Empire. Jesus gave these instructions to his disciples:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Mat 24:14 KJV)​

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (Mark 16:15 KJV)​

And much later Paul made these statements:

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." (Rom 10:17-18 KJV)​

"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:" (Col 1:5-6 KJV)​

"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" (Col 1:23 KJV)​

Do those statements by Paul mean that Jesus' instructions in Matthew 24:14 and Mark 16:15 were fulfilled? Yes. They were fulfilled exactly as Christ instructed: to all the world, and to every creature.

Consider also 1 Clement 5:7:

"... and having preached righteousness to the whole world, and having come to the extremity of the West, and having borne witness before rulers, he departed at length out of the world, and went to the holy place, having become the greatest example of patience."​

.

It is common knowledge that these are figures of speech. The apostles preached the gospel throughout the world as they knew it. But we know that there were millions in China and Asia for instance that there is no record they went to before 70 A.D. Similar words were used by Daniel regarding Alexander the Great in prophecy, but we know in actuality, he did not conquer the whole world. Let us examine Jesus' words:
Matt 24:
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 ¶Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


So now if Jesus returned in 70 A.D. where is the record of it? Where is a record of the sign of the Son of man? Or that all the tribes knew about it, and mourned for missing it? There is no record of such a monumental event. Further, Jesus says this will be after the great tribulation for the entire world, and not just Jerusalem. Further that it would be after the abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Where does Daniel speak of the Abomination of Desolation? In Daniel 11. And Daniel 11 does not end in 70 A.D. Using the same rules of interpretation as for Daniel 9 which has a 490 year timeline up to the time of the Messiah, Daniel 11 and the abomination of desolation cannot be prior to 70 A.D. because the timeline is for 1260 yrs - the same as in Revelation 12 that the woman which conceived the Savior flees into the wilderness to survive the devil. Therefore, according to our Lord's own words placing this coming after the abomination of desolation of Daniel 11, He hasn't returned to fulfill this prophecy notwithstanding the similarity of words used by Paul.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Rev20

Jesus came to gather his elect (the real Saints) in AD 70. That resurrection is discussed in Rev 20 as the "first resurrection". The second resurrection (the one for you and me) will occur after Satan is defeated, explained later in Rev 20.

​

It is common knowledge that these are figures of speech. The apostles preached the gospel throughout the world as they knew it.

So now if Jesus returned in 70 A.D. where is the record of it? Where is a record of the sign of the Son of man? Or that all the tribes knew about it, and mourned for missing it? There is no record of such a monumental event.

Josephus is said to have witnessed some bizarre events before the divine prophecied destruction of Jerusalem.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7593926-8/#post58598639
Josephus's sights and signs 1st century...did these really occur?

1. "A meteor, resembling a sword, [7] hung over Jerusalem during one whole year." This could not be a comet, for it was stationary, and was visible for twelve successive months. A sword too, though a fit emblem for destruction, but ill represents a comet.

2. "On the eighth of the month Zanthicus, (before the feast of unleavened bread) at the ninth hour of the night, there shone round about the altar, and the circumjacent buildings of the temple, a light equal to the brightness of the day, which continued for the space of half an hour."

3. "As the High Priest were leading a heifer to the altar to be sacrificed, she brought forth a lamb, in the midst of the temple." Such is the strange account given by the historian.

4. "'About the sixth hour of the night, the eastern gate of the temple was seen to open without human assistance." When the guards informed the Curator of this event, he sent men to assist them in shutting it, who with great difficulty succeeded.

5. "Soon after the feast of the Passover, in various parts of the country, before the setting of the sun, chariots and armed men were seen in the air, passing round about Jerusalem."

6. "At the subsequent feast of Pentecost, while the priests were going, by night, into the inner, temple to perform their customary ministrations, they first felt, as they said, a shaking, accompanied by an indistinct murmuring, and afterwards voices as of a multitude, saying, in a distinct and earnest manner, "LET US DEPART HENCE."

7. As the last and most fearful omen, Josephus relates that one Jesus, the son of Ananus, a rustic of the lower class, during the Feast of Tabernacles, suddenly exclaimed in the temple, "A voice from the east a voice from the west -- a voice from the four winds- a voice against Jerusalem and the temple -- a voice against bridegrooms and brides -- a voice against the whole people !"
These words he incessantly proclaimed aloud both day and night, through all the streets of Jerusalem, for seven years and five months together, commencing at a time (A. D. 62) when the city was in a state of peace, and overflowing with prosperity, and terminating amidst the horrors of the siege.



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[Rev20]

It is common knowledge that these are figures of speech. The apostles preached the gospel throughout the world as they knew it.

Figures of speech? I believe those were God's Words, which are never idle words. According to Paul, the gospel was preached to all the world, and to every creature, while Paul was still living! Why is that so hard for you to see?
.

But we know that there were millions in China and Asia for instance that there is no record they went to before 70 A.D. Similar words were used by Daniel regarding Alexander the Great in prophecy, but we know in actuality, he did not conquer the whole world.

The Bible is not a menu. It is God's Word. And God said that the "whole world", as used in the New Testament, is the ancient Roman Empire. That is a fact. These are some verses that confirm that the whole world in those days was the Roman Empire:

"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed." -- Lk 2:1​

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye [the disciples] shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." -- Acts 1:8​

"And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar." -- Acts 11:28​

"First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world." -- Rom 1:8​

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." -- Rom 10:17-18​

"But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:" -- Rom 16:26​

"For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:" -- Col 1:5-6​

"If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" -- Col 1:23​

.

Let us examine Jesus' words:
Matt 24:
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
…
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So now if Jesus returned in 70 A.D. where is the record of it?

I have been examining those words in Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 for decades, and the interpretation is easy for me. Jesus said they would be fulfilled in his own, contemporary generation, and I believe Jesus. I don't understand exactly how it happened, but I believe it did, because he said it did. I do know that it was all related to the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the old covenant age. What I don't know is how the resurrection occurred, or how the Son of Man came with clouds.

Where is the record of the destruction of Jerusalem? That horrific event was prophesied for 1500 years, beginning with Moses in Deuteronomy 28. Yet, not once is it mentioned as a past fact? Not even by the fellow running around in the late first century who claimed to be the Apostle John? The fellow who was supposedly the mentor of Polycarp? Since he was the only inspired writer left, why did he not write about the destruction?

Wasn't John supposed to "tarry" until Christ came again (John 21:22-23)? Was John supposed to "tarry" in his grave for 2000 years, or did Christ come again in his lifetime, as those verses imply?

Maybe John was raptured along with all other Christians, and that fellow running around after the AD70 resurrection was an imposter. Paul did warn us about false apostles, didn't he? Who were they?

Maybe the destruction was mentioned as prophecy in the Revelation; but the correct interpretation was corrupted early on, accepted as fact, and bandwagoned. That is what I believe. I can find no other city, past, present or future, that could possibly be Babylon the Great except ancient Jerusalem.

Look at it this way. If all the early Christians were resurrected in AD 70, as Christ promised, who would have been left to record the resurrection? Nearly all in Jerusalem were killed (or starved to death). The early Christians who were not of the "elite group" fled to Pella. Only the "elite group" (the apostles and maybe a few others) stayed behind to face certain death, but also their imminent resurrection, according to their own testimonies, and the words of the Lord.

What if it was a secret rapture? You do believe in secret raptures, don't you?
.

Where is a record of the sign of the Son of man?

What was that sign supposed to be? I don't recall Jesus mentioning any particular sign. Was it this event that was recorded by Josephus and Tacitus:

"There had happened omens and prodigies, things which that nation so addicted to superstition, but so averse to the Gods, hold it unlawful to expiate either by vows or victims. Hosts were seen to encounter in the air, refulgent arms appeared; and, by a blaze of lightning shooting suddenly from the clouds, all the Temple was illuminated. The great gates of the Temple were of themselves in an instant thrown open, and a voice more than human heard to declare, that “the Gods were going to depart.” [The Works of Tacitus, Vol 4, Book V, The Summary]​

"Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one and twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared: I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities." [Wars of the Jews, VI.5.3]​

That sounds strangely like an event seen in a vision by John, and recorded in Rev 19:

"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean." -- Rev 19:14​

It says nothing about them being on the earth: only in heaven.
.

Or that all the tribes knew about it, and mourned for missing it? There is no record of such a monumental event. Further, Jesus says this will be after the great tribulation for the entire world, and not just Jerusalem.

Jesus never said the tribulation would be over the entire world. He warned those in Judaea to get out, and those outside Judaea to stay out, because that is where the tribulation occurred.

How do you know the tribes of Israel did not mourn? There is no inspired record of the destruction of Jerusalem, only prophecy foretelling the destruction.

Daniel also wrote of that tribulation, but the tribulation was for Daniel's people, the children of Israel:

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. . . " -- Dan 12:1​

Jesus said essentially the same thing.
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Further that it would be after the abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Where does Daniel speak of the Abomination of Desolation? In Daniel 11. And Daniel 11 does not end in 70 A.D. Using the same rules of interpretation as for Daniel 9 which has a 490 year timeline up to the time of the Messiah, Daniel 11 and the abomination of desolation cannot be prior to 70 A.D. because the timeline is for 1260 yrs - the same as in Revelation 12 that the woman which conceived the Savior flees into the wilderness to survive the devil. Therefore, according to our Lord's own words placing this coming after the abomination of desolation of Daniel 11, He hasn't returned to fulfill this prophecy notwithstanding the similarity of words used by Paul.

That is the most imaginative interpretation I have read of Daniel's 70 weeks. Not once does Daniel 11 mention, or even imply, that each of the 1260 days means anything other than a day. In fact, all of that was fulfilled under Antiochus IV. How could the disciples possibly know what Jesus was referring to, if there was no historical record of the event. Well, there was a record in 1st and 2nd Maccabees, two of the books removed from the King James version in the 1800's for undetermined reasons.

This is Flavius Josephus on the abomination in Daniel 11:

"1. AT the same time that Antiochus, who was called Epiphanes, had a quarrel with the sixth Ptolemy about his right to the whole country of Syria, a great sedition fell among the men of power in Judea, and they had a contention about obtaining the government; while each of those that were of dignity could not endure to be subject to their equals. However, Onias, one of the high priests, got the better, and cast the sons of Tobias out of the city; who fled to Antiochus, and besought him to make use of them for his leaders, and to make an expedition into Judea. The king being thereto disposed beforehand, complied with them, and came upon the Jews with a great army, and took their city by force, and slew a great multitude of those that favored Ptolemy, and sent out his soldiers to plunder them without mercy.​

He also spoiled the temple, and put a stop to the constant practice of offering a daily sacrifice of expiation for three years and six months.​

But Onias, the high priest, fled to Ptolemy, and received a place from him in the Nomus of Heliopolis, where he built a city resembling Jerusalem, and a temple that was like its temple concerning which we shall speak more in its proper place hereafter." [ Wars of the Jews, I.1.1]​

This is Matthew Henry, Commentary Vol IV (Isa to Mal)

"He profaned the temple. Arms stand on his part (v. 31), not only his own army which he now brought from Egypt, but a great party of deserters from the Jewish religion that joined with them; and they polluted the sanctuary of strength, not only the holy city, but the temple. The story of this we have, 1 Mac. i. 21, &c. He entered proudly into the sanctuary, took away the golden altar, and the candlestick, &c. And therefore (v. 25) there was a great mourning in Israel; the princes and elders mourned, &c. And (2 Mac. v. 15, &c.) Antiochus went into the most holy temple, Menelaus, that traitor to the laws and to his own country, being his guide. Antiochus, having resolved to bring all about him to be of his religion, took away the daily sacrifice,"​

This is from: Jamieson, Fausset & Brown,: Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible

"As to this epoch, which probably is prophetically germinant and manifold; the profanation of the temple by Antiochus: (in the month Ijar of the year 145 B. C., till the restoration of the worship by Judas Maccabeus on the twenty-fifth day of the ninth month (Chisleu) of 148 B. C., according to the Seleucid era, 1290 days; forty-five days more elapsed before Antiochus’ death in the month Shebat of 148 B. C., so ending the Jews’ calamities;"​

That last commentary explains the relationship between the 1290 and 1335 days in Daniel 12:11. It is such a simple explanation it is almost surreal, considering all the wild interpretations from the more imaginative minds we have been bombarded with over the years.

Your interpretation of the Woman in Revelation 12 (who is new Jerusalem, the mother of us all) is also most imaginative. The timeline was exactly 1260 days, or 3.5 years after the resurrection of Christ (Rev 12:5), which was also the last half-week of Daniel's 70 weeks during which the disciples and the early Church finished the confirmation of the old covenant with Israel that Christ had begun in his "half-week" of ministry. During that time, Satan made war against those attempting to confirm the covenant. Once the Gentiles (beginning with Cornelius) were allowed in, the war against the Church was, for all practical purposes, lost.
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[GodisSovereign]

Do you believe the gospel was preached to the whole world in the first century?

Yes because Jesus commanded them to.

 

[Rev20]

Do you believe the gospel was preached to the whole world in the first century?

Paul confirmed that Jesus's commandments about where to preach the gospel were fulfilled: 1) "to all the whole world" (Matt 24:14, Rom 16:25-26) 2) "to all nations" (Matt 24:14, Luke 24:47, Col 1:5-6} and 3) "to every creature" (Mark 16:15, Col 1:23.)

Rev

 

[parousia70]

Paul confirmed that Jesus's commandments about where to preach the gospel were fulfilled: 1) "to all the whole world" (Matt 24:14, Rom 16:25-26) 2) "to all nations" (Matt 24:14, Luke 24:47, Col 1:5-6} and 3) "to every creature" (Mark 16:15, Col 1:23.)

Rev

Now, Now, Let's not let scripture get in the way of our pet theologies....