Are souls born?

[Gladius]

If all humans have souls, and they all leave the physical body when we die (to go somewhere), where were they before we were conceived?

If they were with God in some fashion, why did we have to separate simply in order to return back?

If you have an answer, please remember the Christian apologist claim that something cannot arise from nothing. In the interest of logical consistency I expect that applies to the soul too.

 

[St_Worm2]

...please remember the Christian apologist claim that something cannot arise from nothing.

Hi Gladius, why do you believe Christian apologists claim what you wrote above (or perhaps I am misunderstanding you somehow) ..

We Christians believe that God spoke the universe into existence, "ex nihilo". There was no space/time/matter/energy. God, at His word (e.g. "let there be light") created all of these ex nihilo, "out of nothing".

Ex nihilo nihil fit (out of nothing, comes nothing) is Naturalism, not Christianity.

Looking forward to talking about our souls, but let me know about this first.

Thanks!

--David

 

[juvenissun]

If all humans have souls, and they all leave the physical body when we die (to go somewhere), where were they before we were conceived?

If they were with God in some fashion, why did we have to separate simply in order to return back?

If you have an answer, please remember the Christian apologist claim that something cannot arise from nothing. In the interest of logical consistency I expect that applies to the soul too.

Very good question.

Souls came from God. Some of them returned to God by becoming better souls. Some do not return to God.

A very simple answer. If needs to be elaborated, please let me know.

 

[St_Worm2]

Very good question.

Souls came from God. Some of them returned to God by becoming better souls. Some do not return to God.

A very simple answer. If needs to be elaborated, please let me know.

Hi Juvenissun, you'll have to elaborate for me (just to be clear .. ). You said, "souls come from God" and "some of them return to Him". Does this mean you are a "soul bank" kind of fellow (along with our Mormon friends), or do you believe that our souls came from God in the same way our bodies and minds did, that He (Ps 139) "knit us together", body, soul, and mind in our mother's womb ..

Thanks!

Yours and His,
David

 

[FireDragon76]

If all humans have souls, and they all leave the physical body when we die (to go somewhere), where were they before we were conceived?.

Some early Christians (Origen, Evagrius, etc.) believed in the pre-existence of souls, but most Christians have not done so.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If all humans have souls, and they all leave the physical body when we die (to go somewhere), where were they before we were conceived?

If they were with God in some fashion, why did we have to separate simply in order to return back?

If you have an answer, please remember the Christian apologist claim that something cannot arise from nothing. In the interest of logical consistency I expect that applies to the soul too.

I don't believe "the soul" is some sort of ghost in the shell. I don't have an ethereal something-or-ther floating around in my body that is the "real me". I am this body of matter.

The soul, instead, is the animating principle. That is a living, breathing thing has soul. It's the breath of life as it were.

Now do I believe that at death some part of me or my identity is preserved, with God, consciously? Yes. We could call that the soul going to heaven if we want I suppose. But it's not some ghost leaving its body-shell.

I am me, I am this organism of breath, thought, matter. I am these genetic sequences that make up me. I'm not a whispy something simply inhabiting this body, i am a full fledged flesh-and-blood human person. There was no me until two gametes met and produced a zygote. And the only way that I exist after my own death is by God making it so, until the future resurrection of the dead. Which is the Christian hope.

It could be said that Christians believe in the immortality of the soul I suppose, but more importantly and more truthfully Christians believe in the resurrection and immortality of the body. The carnis resurrectionem mentioned in the Apostles' Creed.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[juvenissun]

Hi Juvenissun, you'll have to elaborate for me (just to be clear .. ). You said, "souls come from God" and "some of them return to Him". Does this mean you are a "soul bank" kind of fellow (along with our Mormon friends), or do you believe that our souls came from God in the same way our bodies and minds did, that He (Ps 139) "knit us together", body, soul, and mind in our mother's womb ..

Thanks!

Yours and His,
David

Soul is soul and body is body. The body of everyone, except Adam, is made of flesh. Each soul came from God and entered a body and the combination become an individual person.

 

[juvenissun]

Some early Christians (Origen, Evagrius, etc.) believed in the pre-existence of souls, but most Christians have not done so.

A conscientious Christian should consider the origin of soul.

 

[juvenissun]

I don't believe "the soul" is some sort of ghost in the shell. I don't have an ethereal something-or-ther floating around in my body that is the "real me". I am this body of matter.

The soul, instead, is the animating principle. That is a living, breathing thing has soul. It's the breath of life as it were.

Now do I believe that at death some part of me or my identity is preserved, with God, consciously? Yes. We could call that the soul going to heaven if we want I suppose. But it's not some ghost leaving its body-shell.

I am me, I am this organism of breath, thought, matter. I am these genetic sequences that make up me. I'm not a whispy something simply inhabiting this body, i am a full fledged flesh-and-blood human person. There was no me until two gametes met and produced a zygote. And the only way that I exist after my own death is by God making it so, until the future resurrection of the dead. Which is the Christian hope.

It could be said that Christians believe in the immortality of the soul I suppose, but more importantly and more truthfully Christians believe in the resurrection and immortality of the body. The carnis resurrectionem mentioned in the Apostles' Creed.

-CryptoLutheran

If we are considering the question about the origin of soul, then we have to treat soul and body as two separate identities to begin with. Otherwise, the question becomes meaningless. We do that because we think we do know the origin of our body.

 

[keith99]

Souls come into being as a natural part of the gestation process. After 60 days for male children and after 120 for females.

This is called Creationism (second definition).

I'll try to find the reference when I get back to my library.

 

[St_Worm2]

Each soul came from God and entered a body and the combination become an individual person.

Did God create our souls just prior to our conception or birth or, like God, do you believe our souls are without beginning or end and we just 'hung out' with God until the time a body became available?

Thanks!

--David

 

[znr]

No one knows. No one can answer this for you or for me.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Souls come into being as a natural part of the gestation process. After 60 days for male children and after 120 for females.

This is called Creationism (second definition).

I'll try to find the reference when I get back to my library.

This was the primary definition of "creationism" for most of history. And the idea that the soul is created in the womb has been the near universal idea of Christianity since at least Augustine.

Whether or not Origen actually believed in the pre-existence of the soul is a matter of dispute. Though later Origenists did, which got Origen slapped with the heretic label hundreds of years after his death; though Origen has been rehabilitated since and is generally regarded as one of the most important Christian thinkers of antiquity.

Personally I think the idea of the Platonic soul is itself problematic in Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Gladius]

Hi Gladius, why do you believe Christian apologists claim what you wrote above (or perhaps I am misunderstanding you somehow) ..

We Christians believe that God spoke the universe into existence, "ex nihilo". There was no space/time/matter/energy. God, at His word (e.g. "let there be light") created all of these ex nihilo, "out of nothing".

Ex nihilo nihil fit (out of nothing, comes nothing) is Naturalism, not Christianity.

Looking forward to talking about our souls, but let me know about this first.

Thanks!

--David

Here you go David.

Quoted from Dr William Lane Craig:

"First and foremost, the causal premiss is rooted in the metaphysical intuition that something cannot come into being from nothing. To suggest that things could just pop into being uncaused out of nothing is to quit doing serious metaphysics and to resort to magic. Second, if things really could come into being uncaused out of nothing, then it becomes inexplicable why just anything and everything do not come into existence uncaused from nothing. Finally, the first premiss is constantly confirmed in our experience, which provides atheists who are scientific naturalists with the strongest of motivations to accept it.

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/causal-premiss-of-the-kalam-argument#ixzz37mPXgcC6

 

[Gladius]

Very good question.

Souls came from God. Some of them returned to God by becoming better souls. Some do not return to God.

A very simple answer. If needs to be elaborated, please let me know.

Yes, please elaborate by answering my second question.

 

[Gladius]

I don't believe "the soul" is some sort of ghost in the shell. I don't have an ethereal something-or-ther floating around in my body that is the "real me". I am this body of matter.

The soul, instead, is the animating principle. That is a living, breathing thing has soul. It's the breath of life as it were.

Now do I believe that at death some part of me or my identity is preserved, with God, consciously? Yes. We could call that the soul going to heaven if we want I suppose. But it's not some ghost leaving its body-shell.

I am me, I am this organism of breath, thought, matter. I am these genetic sequences that make up me. I'm not a whispy something simply inhabiting this body, i am a full fledged flesh-and-blood human person. There was no me until two gametes met and produced a zygote. And the only way that I exist after my own death is by God making it so, until the future resurrection of the dead. Which is the Christian hope.

It could be said that Christians believe in the immortality of the soul I suppose, but more importantly and more truthfully Christians believe in the resurrection and immortality of the body. The carnis resurrectionem mentioned in the Apostles' Creed.

-CryptoLutheran

Hmm very interesting. Is this a Lutheran theology or just a personal one.

Also, what happens if your body turns to dust (or is cremated) before the second coming?

 

[Gladius]

No one knows. No one can answer this for you or for me.

Why do you think that is?

 

[znr]

For me, this falls into the category of non practical issues, like is there life on other planets, are we the only human race, how many other universes are there, and on and on. The way I figure it, there are more pressing issues, boring prsctical stuff. I'd like to think that those take priority. But that's just my opinion. (I don't think God cares if we know the answers to these questions, iow)

Why do you think that is?

 

[juvenissun]

Souls come into being as a natural part of the gestation process. After 60 days for male children and after 120 for females.

This is called Creationism (second definition).

I'll try to find the reference when I get back to my library.

If you are an atheist, then soul is not your thing to think about.

 

[Gladius]

For me, this falls into the category of non practical issues, like is there life on other planets, are we the only human race, how many other universes are there, and on and on. The way I figure it, there are more pressing issues, boring prsctical stuff. I'd like to think that those take priority. But that's just my opinion. (I don't think God cares if we know the answers to these questions, iow)

I'm surprised that knowing where your soul comes from is a "non practical" issue, but knowing there is a God, heaven and hell is.