Are souls born?

[juvenissun]

Did God create our souls just prior to our conception or birth or, like God, do you believe our souls are without beginning or end and we just 'hung out' with God until the time a body became available?

Thanks!

--David

One thing for sure: God creates souls, all souls.
The problem is when.
I tend to think all souls are created during the Week of Creation. No more soul created after that.

 

[juvenissun]

Hmm very interesting. Is this a Lutheran theology or just a personal one.

Also, what happens if your body turns to dust (or is cremated) before the second coming?

A NEW BODY for the soul.

This is an unique idea in Christianity.

 

[znr]

I don't believe in eternal damnation for humans. And I'd rather tend to the sick and poor instead of pondering these questions.

I'm surprised that knowing where your soul comes from is a "non practical" issue, but knowing there is a God, heaven and hell is.

 

[juvenissun]

For me, this falls into the category of non practical issues, like is there life on other planets, are we the only human race, how many other universes are there, and on and on. The way I figure it, there are more pressing issues, boring prsctical stuff. I'd like to think that those take priority. But that's just my opinion. (I don't think God cares if we know the answers to these questions, iow)

God DOES care. Because it is critical for a person to know how to live his life on the earth.

 

[juvenissun]

I'm surprised that knowing where your soul comes from is a "non practical" issue, but knowing there is a God, heaven and hell is.

They are ALL related. Very very practical.
Some, in fact, the majority of souls would not make themselves into the Heaven.

 

[znr]

I don't understand how knowing when my soul was conceived has any connection to how to live life on earth.

God DOES care. Because it is critical for a person to know how to live his life on the earth.

 

[juvenissun]

I don't believe in eternal damnation for humans. And I'd rather tend to the sick and poor instead of pondering these questions.

Amazing.
Very unwise.

 

[znr]

It's unwise to care for the sick and poor in favor of long, winding philosophical debate? Bite me.

Amazing.
Very unwise.

 

[juvenissun]

I don't understand how knowing when my soul was conceived has any connection to how to live life on earth.

Soul is an important part of you.

Knowing the origin and the destiny of soul is the knowing of YOU.

You have to know yourself, so you know how to live the best of your life.

Reasonable?

Of course, if you do not believe in God, then you won't believe in the existence of soul. If so, all this thinking is just for fun and is meaningless.

 

[Gladius]

I don't understand how knowing when my soul was conceived has any connection to how to live life on earth.

I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong (because I wholeheartedly agree with you, that actions are more important than supernatural ponderings) but I don't see (and neither does juvenissun apparently) how knowledge of the soul isn't crucial to a Christian world-view/theology?

 

[juvenissun]

It's unwise to care for the sick and poor in favor of long, winding philosophical debate? Bite me.

Even one is sick and poor, one still can think hard.

 

[znr]

Ah. You're one of those people who can't fathom someone is Christian if they don't agree with what you believe. Duly noted, sunshine.

Soul is an important part of you.

Knowing the origin and the destiny of soul is the knowing of YOU.

You have to know yourself, so you know how to live the best of your life.

Reasonable?

Of course, if you do not believe in God, then you won't believe in the existence of soul. If so, all this thinking is just for fun and is meaningless.

 

[Gladius]

It's unwise to care for the sick and poor in favor of long, winding philosophical debate? Bite me.

How very Humanist of you...

 

[znr]

Well, I can't stand seeing someone suffering. Does that require a label?

How very Humanist of you...

 

[znr]

Think hard / blow hard--there ARE times when that line is blurry..

Even one is sick and poor, one still can think hard.

 

[znr]

It's easy. I believe what I believe, but I'm not sure what I believe (about souls and when they're born) is right. I'd like to think I was assigned a life; that would be far more interesting to me, having been conscious prior to being in a human body. But I don't think about it...it's not required by God IMO. Im also, I'm ducking now, not a pro lifer in the political expected sense. So...I don't know, I see suffering people and practical needs as more important than being certain of the explicit details on when souls are born as a priority. To be more blunt, what makes me Christian is being a follower of Christ, not what I believe philosophically / theologically.

I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong (because I wholeheartedly agree with you, that actions are more important than supernatural ponderings) but I don't see (and neither does juvenissun apparently) how knowledge of the soul isn't crucial to a Christian world-view/theology?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hmm very interesting. Is this a Lutheran theology or just a personal one.

Also, what happens if your body turns to dust (or is cremated) before the second coming?

As far as my thoughts on the definition of "the soul" goes, it's just personal. I think biblically speaking the idea of "the soul" is rather vague. The Hebrew word is nephesh, such as in Genesis 2 when God breathes into the lump of dirt and the text says it became a nephesh, or "living being". Nephesh is linked to the concept of breath and breathing.

Interestingly that's also the basic meaning of the Greek psuche, breath. So in the ancient mind that critical distinction between a living thing and a corpse is that it breathes, it has breath. It's that vital breath that is, fundamentally "the soul".

So I'd argue that is generally how the various authors of the biblical texts would have perceived the idea of "the soul". The modern idea of the ghost in the shell is largely a product of Platonism.

As far as the resurrection of the body goes, that is basic orthodox Christian teaching universally taught by Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Protestants. Up until rather recently in history, the last hundred or two hundred years, this was just accepted as theological reality. The Christian hope of eternal life wasn't of floating up to a place called "heaven" to spend eternity as a harp-strumming ethereal whisp; but was that the body, this flesh-and-bone solid matter, would rise up even as Jesus rose up. In fact in 1 Corinthians St. Paul goes so far as to say that if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Jesus Himself isn't raised up, because Jesus' resurrection and the future resurrection of the dead are, essentially, bound up in the same reality.

A decayed/cremated body is raised up all the same. It is in fact this hope that those who having died and long turned to dust in the earth would rise again that is the essence of the resurrection hope. It's the reason why both Jews and Christians (and later Muslims) have historically buried their dead, out of a belief of the resurrection of the dead. Burial and preservation of the body is rooted in the belief that the body matters, and will matter ultimately in the end.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

A NEW BODY for the soul.

This is an unique idea in Christianity.

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae,
(We believe in God the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth)

et in Iesum Christum, Filium Eius unicum, Dominum nostrum,
(and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord)

qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria Virgine,
(who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary)

passus sub Pontio Pilato, crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus,
(suffered under Pontius Pilate, crucified, dead, and buried)

descendit ad inferos, tertia die resurrexit a mortuis,
(descended into the depths, on the third day rose from the dead)

ascendit ad caelos, sedet ad dexteram Patris omnipotentis,
(ascended into heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father Almighty)

inde venturus est iudicare vivos et mortuos.
(from whence He will come to judge the living and the dead)

Credo in Spiritum Sanctum,
(We believe in the Holy Spirit)

sanctam Ecclesiam catholicam,
(the holy universal Church)

sanctorum communionem,
(the communion of saints)

remissionem peccatorum,
(the forgiveness of sin)

carnis resurrectionem,
(resurrection of the flesh)

vitam aeternam.
(life eternal)

Amen.
(Amen)

The body rises.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Gladius]

As far as my thoughts on the definition of "the soul" goes, it's just personal. I think biblically speaking the idea of "the soul" is rather vague. The Hebrew word is nephesh, such as in Genesis 2 when God breathes into the lump of dirt and the text says it became a nephesh, or "living being". Nephesh is linked to the concept of breath and breathing.

Interestingly that's also the basic meaning of the Greek psuche, breath. So in the ancient mind that critical distinction between a living thing and a corpse is that it breathes, it has breath. It's that vital breath that is, fundamentally "the soul".

So I'd argue that is generally how the various authors of the biblical texts would have perceived the idea of "the soul". The modern idea of the ghost in the shell is largely a product of Platonism.

As far as the resurrection of the body goes, that is basic orthodox Christian teaching universally taught by Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Protestants. Up until rather recently in history, the last hundred or two hundred years, this was just accepted as theological reality. The Christian hope of eternal life wasn't of floating up to a place called "heaven" to spend eternity as a harp-strumming ethereal whisp; but was that the body, this flesh-and-bone solid matter, would rise up even as Jesus rose up. In fact in 1 Corinthians St. Paul goes so far as to say that if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Jesus Himself isn't raised up, because Jesus' resurrection and the future resurrection of the dead are, essentially, bound up in the same reality.

A decayed/cremated body is raised up all the same. It is in fact this hope that those who having died and long turned to dust in the earth would rise again that is the essence of the resurrection hope. It's the reason why both Jews and Christians (and later Muslims) have historically buried their dead, out of a belief of the resurrection of the dead. Burial and preservation of the body is rooted in the belief that the body matters, and will matter ultimately in the end.

-CryptoLutheran

Thanks, very honest and interesting.

 

[Gladius]

It's easy. I believe what I believe, but I'm not sure what I believe (about souls and when they're born) is right. I'd like to think I was assigned a life; that would be far more interesting to me, having been conscious prior to being in a human body. But I don't think about it...it's not required by God IMO. Im also, I'm ducking now, not a pro lifer in the political expected sense. So...I don't know, I see suffering people and practical needs as more important than being certain of the explicit details on when souls are born as a priority. To be more blunt, what makes me Christian is being a follower of Christ, not what I believe philosophically / theologically.

If you are not sure what you believe about a soul, are you sure about what you believe happens to it when you die?