Is the seventh day the Sabbath?

[from scratch]

So when was the Sabbath made if not at creation?

You've been told and refuse to listen. You're only arguing. Why do you continue to think you can hoodwink us into participating in a lie? You're not the Holy Spirit leading us.

 

[from scratch]

Originally Posted by Sophrosyne

Originally Posted by Elder 111

The Sabbath was Sanctified before sin just like marriage.
​

5. Rubbish.... absolute hogwash unproven balderdash.
​

That is how you regard God's holy word when it does not say what you want?
Ex 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Gen. 2: 1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
You would have all of the christian world believe that these are not the same? Even after God said it Himself! Fantastic!

And he's correct. Hows bout that?

 

[from scratch]

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

 

[from scratch]

Why did God say remember the Sabbath?

Who did God say this to?

 

[JacobLaw]

The whole ritual of keeping the Sabbath holy evades explanations; when, what and were cannot be answered.

 

[VictorC]

Why did God say remember the Sabbath?

Quoting Exodus 20:8 in its entirety, it says "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." God's use of a verb in the present tense does not help your argument at all. Now, look at your time stamp provided by CF's server:

21st June 2014, 07:14 AM

I can't hear your words when your actions scream so loudly. You forgot the Sabbath.

 

[Sophrosyne]

6 Not at all, it is that you would reject the Sabbath much more so than you would homosexuality. For The seventh day Sabbath is mentioned as part of creation week before sin entered this word, blessed, sanctified, and hollowed by God and you reject it because you did not see " worship God on the Sabbath" written down before Sinai. There is no direct command against Homosexuality, stealing, murder, adultery, idolatry or coveting before Sinai either, but you will accept those as being in existence. That his pure hypocrisy. You really believe that you can stand before God with such an argument.

I don't "reject" the Sabbath as you are asserting in order to reject it, it must be a valid option for Christians and IMO the Sabbath has no meaning for us. I could see rejecting it if I were Jewish or an Israeli because then it would be applicable to some extent.
As for your argument that there was no direct commands against things such as murder we can see that the human conscience knew that such things were on a level wrong when Cain slew able he knew it was wrong.
One can posit that idolatry is a part of not believing in God as some of the other sins and the bible in the NT talks about those not believing and sin and also Paul himself says that those who don't know the Law AT ALL "keep" a form of the law themselves. One could contend that throughout the Bible those who don't directly know God but try to know him and follow him would also exhibit similar traits as to not murdering others and stealing and adultery. We see throughout civilization that whole nations who have no connection to God exhibit laws that deal with most of these topics if people didn't somehow know that it was wrong on some level then they would allow murder and stealing. We don't see any other nation in history EVER keeping a Sabbath AND ever requiring the penalty of DEATH for breaking it. The harshest nation today in some countries has Death penalties for some of these sins and they aren't Christian at all.

In other words your Sabbath argument AGAIN is trying to prove it from silence totally throwing logic and reality in the trash, stomping on the trash can, while screaming there is no trash can here when it is painted bright orange and has a flashing light and siren on top of it and all the Christians in the neighborhood are watching in shock....

 

[Sophrosyne]

Originally Posted by Sophrosyne

Originally Posted by Elder 111

The Sabbath was Sanctified before sin just like marriage.
​

5. Rubbish.... absolute hogwash unproven balderdash.
​

That is how you regard God's holy word when it does not say what you want?
Ex 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Gen. 2: 1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
You would have all of the christian world believe that these are not the same? Even after God said it Himself! Fantastic!

Nope... God's creation Sabbath is God's Sabbath..... NOT man's. God never started creating again nor is man required to create for 6 days and rest for the rest of his life never working again.
We have more logic thrown in the bright orange trash can and another stomp fest here......

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by from scratch

Elder we're not just talking about some round figure of say 400 years. There isn't any evidence in the Bible anywhere anyone observed the Sabbath until after Israel departed Egypt.

Now did God give the Sabbath as a sign to Israel or did God in fact give it to the whole world? If God gave it to the whole world why does the Book of the Law say different? If you're pitting Moses against Jesus you show the Bible to not be inspired and one of them is a liar. Who you going to discredit? If you discredit Moses you also discredit the law and the Ten Commandments. If you discredit Jesus you say God is a liar. You have a real problem on your hands.
​

Originally Posted by Elder 111 There is no discrediting required. The Sabbath was for man/the world Mark 2:27. Genesis 2. No where did Moses say the Sabbath was for Jews only Did he? God told the Jews that they should keep the Sabbath especially because He delivered them from Egypt, but that was not the only nor major reason was it? Before He said that He said,
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger (not Jews only) that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (the reason for the Sabbath)
To the Sabbath was only because the Jews were delivered from Egypt would not be correct would it now?

Elder111: Nowhere did you address the point 'from scratch' made. If you demand that we accept your argument that Scripture is uninspired and self-contradictory, why then do you bother to quote Scripture you consider an invalid and unreliable testimony?

I have purposely highlighted "Scratch's" question and my reply. Would you still insist that I did not address the point?
Secondly where did I say the scriptures are uninspired and self contradictory? Your comments indicate that when an argument is presented that clearly shows the original to be flawed there is a bias attempt thereafter to make the correct comments look bad, that is not good!

 

[Elder 111]

There also isn't any command nor instruction to keep the Sabbath prior to leaving Egypt.

There is no command to worship God only either! So!

 

[Elder 111]

You've been told and refuse to listen. You're only arguing. Why do you continue to think you can hoodwink us into participating in a lie? You're not the Holy Spirit leading us.

God is a liar? Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
From Creation not Sinai! Because God is creator not the Jewish deliverer!

Because those who speak against the Sabbath are not working with God.
Eze. 22

25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

 

[Elder 111]

Who did God say this to?

All men!

 

[Elder 111]

Quoting Exodus 20:8 in its entirety, it says "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." God's use of a verb in the present tense does not help your argument at all. Now, look at your time stamp provided by CF's server:

I can't hear your words when your actions scream so loudly. You forgot the Sabbath.

What ever do you mean?

 

[Elder 111]

I don't "reject" the Sabbath as you are asserting in order to reject it, it must be a valid option for Christians and IMO the Sabbath has no meaning for us. I could see rejecting it if I were Jewish or an Israeli because then it would be applicable to some extent.

So what God made holy and sanctified is not applicable to you?

As for your argument that there was no direct commands against things such as murder we can see that the human conscience knew that such things were on a level wrong when Cain slew able he knew it was wrong.
One can posit that idolatry is a part of not believing in God as some of the other sins and the bible in the NT talks about those not believing and sin and also Paul himself says that those who don't know the Law AT ALL "keep" a form of the law themselves. One could contend that throughout the Bible those who don't directly know God but try to know him and follow him would also exhibit similar traits as to not murdering others and stealing and adultery. We see throughout civilization that whole nations who have no connection to God exhibit laws that deal with most of these topics if people didn't somehow know that it was wrong on some level then they would allow murder and stealing. We don't see any other nation in history EVER keeping a Sabbath AND ever requiring the penalty of DEATH for breaking it. The harshest nation today in some countries has Death penalties for some of these sins and they aren't Christian at all.

The point is that no law was mentioned. Your argument is that the Sabbath was not commanded, the same basic must apply to the other laws if we are going to be fair. Now if you are going to argue that because of what happened in the record of scripture with out a direct command indicate that law must have been known and understood, then the same must apply to the Sabbath. Particularly in light of the fact that it was made sacred by God. Even more so when it is shown to be sacred and holy before man's fall.

In other words your Sabbath argument AGAIN is trying to prove it from silence totally throwing logic and reality in the trash, stomping on the trash can, while screaming there is no trash can here when it is painted bright orange and has a flashing light and siren on top of it and all the Christians in the neighborhood are watching in shock....

You are describing yourself.

 

[Elder 111]

Nope... God's creation Sabbath is God's Sabbath..... NOT man's. God never started creating again nor is man required to create for 6 days and rest for the rest of his life never working again.
We have more logic thrown in the bright orange trash can and another stomp fest here......

Where do you understand that God need to rest? Working 6 24 hour days made God tired? So who is keeping the world if God is resting?
Is not Jesus the creator? John 1. Was He resting when He was on earth?
Do you not understand that the Sabbath was created for man. Mark 2:27. What must Jesus do? Hit you over the head? He who created it said so!

 

[Sophrosyne]

So what God made holy and sanctified is not applicable to you?

Not if it is God's property only. God rested on the sabbath and his rest from creation is still ongoing if it were applicable to you then you wouldn't work the rest of your life but instead you break the sanctified sabbath rest of God by working 6 days a week.

The point is that no law was mentioned. Your argument is that the Sabbath was not commanded, the same basic must apply to the other laws if we are going to be fair. Now if you are going to argue that because of what happened in the record of scripture with out a direct command indicate that law must have been known and understood, then the same must apply to the Sabbath. Particularly in light of the fact that it was made sacred by God. Even more so when it is shown to be sacred and holy before man's fall.

You are describing yourself.

The problem is logically speaking we see throughout the bible prior to Moses and in Christianity all but the Sabbath being dealt with. If all other "commandments" are seen but the Sabbath isn't then trying to piggyback it on other commandments as valid to prove it while other commandments are NOT piggybacked on themselves to prove them shows that the Sabbath is not in the same class as the rest OR is not relevant outside of a certain jurisdiction. Logic states that the Sabbath was absent prior to Moses and Absent in Gentile Christianity something you refuse to admit.
So far you are still arguing semantics while proof of the Sabbath is deadly silent outsides of Moses and the nation of Israel and Judaism and certain other groups that are wrongly practicing it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Where do you understand that God need to rest? Working 6 24 hour days made God tired? So who is keeping the world if God is resting?

Irrelevant. The fact is God worked (created) for 6 days and quit... and never took up that work again. Being tired is meaningless to him.
Comparing God's rest (sabbath) to the Sabbath Day we see similarities but saying because God rested man must have been commanded likewise when God's rest isn't correct for man as a perfect example. We see Abraham sacrificing Isaac and later God sacrificed Jesus (God sacrificed himself) you would have me believe that Abraham was showing God what he needed to do in it all. One is a shadow of things to come but Jesus didn't come the next day but a lot later just as we don't see any Sabbath command for man (Israel) till a lot later.

Is not Jesus the creator? John 1. Was He resting when He was on earth?
Do you not understand that the Sabbath was created for man. Mark 2:27. What must Jesus do? Hit you over the head? He who created it said so!

The Genesis Sabbath isn't the same as the Sabbath given to Israel. We see no proof of Adam keeping a Sabbath, nor anyone till Moses time. Jesus himself didn't really have much to say about the Sabbath which makes us wonder why you think it is more important than Jesus himself does.

 

[Elder 111]

Not if it is God's property only. God rested on the sabbath and his rest from creation is still ongoing if it were applicable to you then you wouldn't work the rest of your life but instead you break the sanctified sabbath rest of God by working 6 days a week.
The problem is logically speaking we see throughout the bible prior to Moses and in Christianity all but the Sabbath being dealt with. If all other "commandments" are seen but the Sabbath isn't then trying to piggyback it on other commandments as valid to prove it while other commandments are NOT piggybacked on themselves to prove them shows that the Sabbath is not in the same class as the rest OR is not relevant outside of a certain jurisdiction. Logic states that the Sabbath was absent prior to Moses and Absent in Gentile Christianity something you refuse to admit.
So far you are still arguing semantics while proof of the Sabbath is deadly silent outsides of Moses and the nation of Israel and Judaism and certain other groups that are wrongly practicing it.

Your logic! But not truth! Your logic deny the origin of the Sabbath.
There is no logic needed. There are plain statements by God. Since you have rejected them as referring to the Sabbath at creation at least do us the honor of stating your logical understanding of what is meant in these text if not the seventh day of Creation.

1. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. What does God mean here? What is he referring to? Ex 16:26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: Lev. 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. Why did God refer to creation if it is not the seventh day of creation?
2. What Jesus mean when He said that the Sabbath was created for Man? Mark 2:27. When and where was that day created?

 

[Elder 111]

Irrelevant. The fact is God worked (created) for 6 days and quit... and never took up that work again. Being tired is meaningless to him.
Comparing God's rest (sabbath) to the Sabbath Day we see similarities but saying because God rested man must have been commanded likewise when God's rest isn't correct for man as a perfect example. We see Abraham sacrificing Isaac and later God sacrificed Jesus (God sacrificed himself) you would have me believe that Abraham was showing God what he needed to do in it all. One is a shadow of things to come but Jesus didn't come the next day but a lot later just as we don't see any Sabbath command for man (Israel) till a lot later.

You gone back to the same premise. The Sabbath command is the only one that says remember, why? Remember something that never was known? The Sabbath is the only commandment that is a problem why? None of them was written before and I maintain, even though you have rejected the idea, that all are to be treated the same way. Exclude all or include all.

The Genesis Sabbath isn't the same as the Sabbath given to Israel. We see no proof of Adam keeping a Sabbath, nor anyone till Moses time. Jesus himself didn't really have much to say about the Sabbath which makes us wonder why you think it is more important than Jesus himself does.

It was before sin and it will be after sin Gen 2 Isa 66:22-23.
Question, what is the ark of the testimony?

 

[BobRyan]

You gone back to the same premise. The Sabbath command is the only one that says remember, why? Remember something that never was known? The Sabbath is the only commandment that is a problem why? None of them was written before and I maintain, even though you have rejected the idea, that all are to be treated the same way. Exclude all or include all.

It was before sin and it will be after sin Gen 2 Isa 66:22-23.

It is interesting that even the pro-sunday keeping sources mentioned in my signature line - see the point that you make above clearly.

Pretty easy point for all to see.

in Christ,

Bob