Is the seventh day the Sabbath?

[JacobLaw]

Let me rephrase my question, what verse(s) are you using to justify that the law or sabbath has been fulfuilled? You stated the law is fulfilled, so how is the law fulfilled?

You mentioned rituals; what are rituals? You should define terms BEFORE you use them.

Come on Mercy1061, you know better, I can tell, I think you are not seeing my point on purpose, try just a little understanding.

I don't think we are that far off from each other.

 

[mercy1061]

Come on Mercy1061, you know better, I can tell, I think you are not seeing my point on purpose, try just a little understanding.

I don't think we are that far off from each other.

Why is your name "Jacoblaw"?

What is a ritual?

Which verses are you using to say that law or sabbath has been fulfilled? What do you mean the sabbath has been fulfilled?

 

[VictorC]

As I have said, that you are trying to Justify the removal of the Sabbath.

I don't need to. The burden of proof that either the Gentile nations or the adopted children of God were given the Sabbath has been your responsibility. You have never done so. You can't, for even the Law testifies that the Sabbath was a sign between God and the children of Israel exclusively (Exodus 31:13). You already showed disdain for the Gospel's affect on accounting God's redeemed possession as His own children, ignoring my post that explained to you we aren't children of any earthly tribe in God's eyes. For those of us who have entered into God's rest, the former periodic shadow representing it has no meaning, and it wasn't given to us to begin with.

Those who had no need to deny your claim made this statement. The Sabbath is first met with in connection with the fall of the manna (Exodus 16:22 sqq.), but it there appears as an institution already known to the Israelites. The Sinaitic legislation therefore only gave the force of law to an existing custom.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sabbath

You're repeating your previous post, wherein you again depend on Roman Catholicism to validate a claim that you still haven't been able to reconcile with Scripture. Two of us have pointed out your reliance on a straw man argument that is a fallacy, and you can't help but to repeat this fallacy.

You have bought into the idea that the Sabbath is not for us and then seek at all lengths to justify it, even at the expense of nullifying and corrupting scripture. But others who speak of the truth, not only the Catholics, do not deny the Sabbath account and the fact that it is the Seventh Day of Genesis 2, and that it existed before Ex 16. All of this despite the fact that they still hold the view that Sunday is the day for worship.

Once again: You didn't respond to the content presented to you. When you do this, it forces the conclusion that you openly rejected the record documented in Exodus 16 and Nehemiah 9. You haven't found anything in Scripture to suggest the Sabbath existed before the manna experience, and throwing away the Bible to replace it with a feigned attempt at argumentum ad populum just proves to others that you couldn't care less what Scripture records.

Your position about the Sabbath and the Seventh day and God rest, as you put it, is not accepted by Sunday keepers that had rejected the Sabbath. It is totally unbiblical. You want to maintain the view then do so but that does not make it the correct one.

What is a "Sunday keeper"? Isn't that just another form of Sabbatarianism that shares the error of Saturday Sabbatarianism? We aren't "Sunday keepers". You were told this before. This is another straw man that doesn't have a basis in reality.

Why oh why do you keep appealing to logical fallacies when you have access to a Bible able to dispel the mythology you been fed from the poisoned well? It is because everything I've posted to you is entirely Biblical. In contrast, your contradiction with the Law was documented once again in the very first paragraph of this post. Take a look at your own signature line, a quote from Isaiah 8:20. You violate the Law habitually because there is no light in your old-covenant mythological rendition of Christianity, which remains a oxymoron that doesn't exist.

 

[mercy1061]

Totally agree, and especially not the Roman Catholic system.

Hebrews 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Which rule or commandment is the unknown writer of hebrews talking about? What is the topic of the discussion of hebrews 7:18?

Heb 7:18
18 Thus, on the one hand, the earlier rule is set aside because of its weakness and inefficacy 19 (for the Torah did not bring anything to the goal); and, on the other hand, a hope of something better is introduced, through which we are drawing near to God.

Now when you are approved for a loan, a guarantor usually is selected to secure the loan will be repaid. The borrower may be lawfully required to repay the guarantor.

Heb 7:22
22 Also this shows how much better is the covenant of which Yeshua has become guarantor.

 

[VictorC]

God blessed and sanctified the Sabbath from creation. Jesus said it was created for man.

In two consecutive sentences strung together you just proved that the Sabbath didn't originate from creation. You can't find anything in the Genesis account other than God's rest, which wasn't the Sabbath "made for man".

 

[VictorC]

The Sabbath was Sanctified before sin just like marriage.

5. Rubbish.... absolute hogwash unproven balderdash.

Exactly. Just more mythology contrary to the Biblical record.

 

[Sophrosyne]

In two consecutive sentences strung together you just proved that the Sabbath didn't originate from creation. You can't find anything in the Genesis account other than God's rest, which wasn't the Sabbath "made for man".

One could say Man "makes" the Sabbath by keeping it while God "makes" the sabbath by doing eternally nothing. These two sabbaths are like opposites because one requires work the other requires NO work.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Sort of reminds me of snipe hunting this sabbath bit.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by from scratch

No, it means complete and retire an agreement by whatever name one wishes to call it.
​

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Does fulfill mean removed, abolished, gotten rid of? What does it mean?
​

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
According to you the text could read: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to complete and retire the law and the prophets.

Where has anyone spoken against the prophets here? Who is destroying the law?

Jesus said He came to complete (fulfill) the law. No one here is saying the law doesn't exist. No one here is trying to get rid of the law. You will accept no answer but the Christian is obligated to the law. Not from me or the Bible.

All I did was to apply your interpretation to the text. Can't you see that. So that if you see a problem it is from your end not mind.You can not blame other for the position you present and support.
What do you mean no one says the law does not exist? If it is then what is to the christian, nothing? We are not obligated to worship God only? We are not obligated not to take His name in vain? We are not to establish the law? Rom 3:31?

 

[Elder 111]

Elder we're not just talking about some round figure of say 400 years. There isn't any evidence in the Bible anywhere anyone observed the Sabbath until after Israel departed Egypt.

Now did God give the Sabbath as a sign to Israel or did God in fact give it to the whole world? If God gave it to the whole world why does the Book of the Law say different? If you're pitting Moses against Jesus you show the Bible to not be inspired and one of them is a liar. Who you going to discredit? If you discredit Moses you also discredit the law and the Ten Commandments. If you discredit Jesus you say God is a liar. You have a real problem on your hands.

There is no discrediting required. The Sabbath was for man/the world Mark 2:27. Genesis 2. No where did Moses say the Sabbath was for Jews only Did he? God told the Jews that they should keep the Sabbath especially because He delivered them from Egypt, but that was not the only nor major reason was it? Before He said that He said,
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger (not Jews only) that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (the reason for the Sabbath)
To the Sabbath was only because the Jews were delivered from Egypt would not be correct would it now?

 

[Elder 111]

1. if they weren't slaves then why didn't the pharaoh let them leave? Why all the plagues?
2. First off you haven't proven they even knew to keep it, I was merely showing that there is a possibility that they couldn't keep a Sabbath if there was one for many generations which would make it essentially a worthless Day to them in effect.
3. This is not addressing my logical argument at all, it is just cherry picking verses to spam threads.
4. Nope, not every thing is.... but from what is recorded and logic we can assume things that would be in it and we can also assume things that in all probability would be less likely to be there. The Sabbath being kept from Adam to Moses is an extremely low possibility if one reads about it from Moses on and compares how much attention it gets and consider the lack of ANY attention given it prior to Moses. One could conclude (as you do) the Sabbath is very important such that when one sees NO notice of it then the only reason one can assume is either it is NOT important OR NOT known at all.
5. Rubbish.... absolute hogwash unproven balderdash
6. I could more easily prove homosexual sin for Christians than you can prove the Sabbath as a sin for us.

6 Not at all, it is that you would reject the Sabbath much more so than you would homosexuality. For The seventh day Sabbath is mentioned as part of creation week before sin entered this word, blessed, sanctified, and hollowed by God and you reject it because you did not see " worship God on the Sabbath" written down before Sinai. There is no direct command against Homosexuality, stealing, murder, adultery, idolatry or coveting before Sinai either, but you will accept those as being in existence. That his pure hypocrisy. You really believe that you can stand before God with such an argument.

 

[Elder 111]

In two consecutive sentences strung together you just proved that the Sabbath didn't originate from creation. You can't find anything in the Genesis account other than God's rest, which wasn't the Sabbath "made for man".

So when was the Sabbath made if not at creation?

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Sophrosyne

Originally Posted by Elder 111

The Sabbath was Sanctified before sin just like marriage.
​

5. Rubbish.... absolute hogwash unproven balderdash.
​

Exactly. Just more mythology contrary to the Biblical record.

That is how you regard God's holy word when it does not say what you want?
Ex 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Gen. 2: 1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
You would have all of the christian world believe that these are not the same? Even after God said it Himself! Fantastic!

 

[JacobLaw]

Why is your name "Jacoblaw"?

What is a ritual?

Which verses are you using to say that law or sabbath has been fulfilled? What do you mean the sabbath has been fulfilled?

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

 

[VictorC]

Originally Posted by Sophrosyne

Originally Posted by Elder 111

The Sabbath was Sanctified before sin just like marriage.
​

5. Rubbish.... absolute hogwash unproven balderdash.
​

That is how you regard God's holy word when it does not say what you want?

Abraham had a wife more than 430 years before the Sabbath existed. This is why we view your notion of reversing this timeline as comical, rubbish, balderdash, and mythology.

Ex 20:11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Gen. 2: 1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
You would have all of the christian world believe that these are not the same? Even after God said it Himself! Fantastic!

The only one who doesn't accept the passages you quoted is yourself. The impetus by necessity has to precede the result, and this has been explained to you many times.

 

[VictorC]

Elder we're not just talking about some round figure of say 400 years. There isn't any evidence in the Bible anywhere anyone observed the Sabbath until after Israel departed Egypt.

Now did God give the Sabbath as a sign to Israel or did God in fact give it to the whole world? If God gave it to the whole world why does the Book of the Law say different? If you're pitting Moses against Jesus you show the Bible to not be inspired and one of them is a liar. Who you going to discredit? If you discredit Moses you also discredit the law and the Ten Commandments. If you discredit Jesus you say God is a liar. You have a real problem on your hands.

There is no discrediting required. The Sabbath was for man/the world Mark 2:27. Genesis 2. No where did Moses say the Sabbath was for Jews only Did he? God told the Jews that they should keep the Sabbath especially because He delivered them from Egypt, but that was not the only nor major reason was it? Before He said that He said,
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger (not Jews only) that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (the reason for the Sabbath)
To the Sabbath was only because the Jews were delivered from Egypt would not be correct would it now?

Elder111: Nowhere did you address the point 'from scratch' made. If you demand that we accept your argument that Scripture is uninspired and self-contradictory, why then do you bother to quote Scripture you consider an invalid and unreliable testimony?

 

[VictorC]

So when was the Sabbath made if not at creation?

You didn't read nor respond to the post I wrote yesterday:

Your doctrines may have varies slightly over the year but they originated with the Catholic Church and you still maintain one in particular and that is Sunday. You have tried to justify it biblically but God never ordained it.

Instead of addressing the content of my post, you're going to fabricate a complete lie. That hardly garners any sympathy for your rejection of the Biblical record.

The Sabbath did not start in Exodus 16. You maintain that by reject the the Seventh day of Genesis 2 as being the Sabbath and also by rejecting God.s own account of Exodus 20:8-11. That is why I did not reply, once you have reject plain scripture there is no way of accepting truth. The Seventh day is the Sabbath!

The verb "is" denotes the present tense, and contradicts your own claim that the seventh day of the creation account -a singular event in the distant past- was a Sabbath. The Genesis account records God's rest, and not a periodic event "made for man" as Jesus differentiated the Sabbath. Even Exodus 20:8-11 draws on a preceding event as the reason to ordain the Sabbath, which by necessity indicates God's rest on the seventh day existed before the Sabbath did. You know all of this, as it has been posted before. That's the Biblical record, plain Scripture, and the one rejecting it is Elder111.

The Sabbath was Spoken into existence coincident with the manna experience, during the lifetime of Moses, as recorded in Exodus 16. You have posted nothing to suggest any other origin other than your dependence on and misrepresentation of Roman Catholic sources that you alone introduced to the forum.

 

[VictorC]

The seventh day Sabbath is mentioned as part of creation week before sin entered this world...<snip>

Repeating this lie over and over is not going to make it acceptable.

 

[Elder 111]

Abraham had a wife more than 430 years before the Sabbath existed. This is why we view your notion of reversing this timeline as comical, rubbish, balderdash, and mythology.

The only one who doesn't accept the passages you quoted is yourself. The impetus by necessity has to precede the result, and this has been explained to you many times.

Why did God say remember the Sabbath?

 

[from scratch]

6 Not at all, it is that you would reject the Sabbath much more so than you would homosexuality. For The seventh day Sabbath is mentioned as part of creation week before sin entered this word, blessed, sanctified, and hollowed by God and you reject it because you did not see " worship God on the Sabbath" written down before Sinai. There is no direct command against Homosexuality, stealing, murder, adultery, idolatry or coveting before Sinai either, but you will accept those as being in existence. That his pure hypocrisy. You really believe that you can stand before God with such an argument.

There also isn't any command nor instruction to keep the Sabbath prior to leaving Egypt.