Is the seventh day the Sabbath?

[JacobLaw]

I am trying to understand your position on this matter. I must say that I have a position on the matter already.
Firstly you mention Sabbaths and not Sabbath. What do you mean hear?
Do you see the Seventh day Sabbath as bondage?
Do you understand that if we are lead by the Spirit that we will not seek to keep the Ten commandments?
I am seeking clarity.

Is there some kind of ritual you are looking for, some outline?
Does it say a man works 6 days and rest the seventh, isn't that part of the commandment?
Is some different way we entreat the Sabbaths?
The bondage I am referring too is returning to a law fulfilled.
When you are walking in the Spirit you don't have to seek to keep the commandments you just do.
Remember; you can't be justified by the law and neither can you be an heir by the law.
You have to trust God to lead you in the Spirit wherein the commandments are fulfilled in you, you don't need to fulfill the commandment, Jesus already did that.
But I do enjoy discussing this with you.

 

[Elder 111]

I agree this is the first sabbath but it wasn't known because they had to be instructed as to what to do in the collection of manna. If they had truly known about it there wouldn't need to be mention of it whatsoever logically.

Not necessary, because you know of something it does not automatically mean that you do it. Have you played all the games that you have known from childhood? Were not the same Jews disobedient?
Ex 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

 

[Elder 111]

We've told you all along the Sabbath traces its origin coincident with the manna experience about a month before God declared His covenant to His vassal Israel. That you're just now noticing the Sabbath's actual origin shows that you're way behind the learning curve. And no, if you read the account in Exodus 16 you will find that following the weekly cycle marked with the Sabbath was problematic at best, showing that it was a new concept the children of Israel weren't accustomed to. It was not an existing custom, the reason Nehemiah 9:14 attributes the first knowledge of the Sabbath to Moses, after those depicted in the account studied the Book of the Law.

So you disagree with the Catholic Encyclopedia's account?

 

[Elder 111]

We can shorten your post this way to get to the meat contained therein:

The way we should regard this is recognizing your dependency on the Roman Catholic Church for your doctrinal assertions. That is the nature of Adventism, depending on a straw man to justify its existence rather than forming a Biblical world view to base its belief system.

You are not serious!

 

[Elder 111]

Yeah... what is it with all this catholic dogma here on us non catholics why would we care?

That is where you church and doctrine originated.

 

[Elder 111]

Is there some kind of ritual you are looking for, some outline?
Does it say a man works 6 days and rest the seventh, isn't that part of the commandment?
Is some different way we entreat the Sabbaths?
The bondage I am referring too is returning to a law fulfilled.
When you are walking in the Spirit you don't have to seek to keep the commandments you just do.
Remember; you can't be justified by the law and neither can you be an heir by the law.
You have to trust God to lead you in the Spirit wherein the commandments are fulfilled in you, you don't need to fulfill the commandment, Jesus already did that.
But I do enjoy discussing this with you.

I have highlighted that which I can agree with.
What I am trying to ascertain is if you are also saying that I can disregard the Ten Commandments. Or Is it the fact that the Holy Spirit will aid me in keeping the Ten commandments. Please note that we are not taking about earning salvation, we are talking about doing the will of God! Does God require us to keep the Commandments by the aid of His Holy Spirit or not?

 

[JacobLaw]

I have highlighted that which I can agree with.
What I am trying to ascertain is if you are also saying that I can disregard the Ten Commandments. Or Is it the fact that the Holy Spirit will aid me in keeping the Ten commandments. Please note that we are not taking about earning salvation, we are talking about doing the will of God! Does God require us to keep the Commandments by the aid of His Holy Spirit or not?

Maybe I am not sure what you mean by keeping the Commandments?
You are talking specifically about Exodus 20 8-11 right?
So we work 6 days and don't work the 7th day, is that how you keep that particular Commandment?

If that is the case; that is what I do, with some required exceptions, as Jesus pointed at.

 

[from scratch]

Not necessary, because you know of something it does not automatically mean that you do it. Have you played all the games that you have known from childhood? Were not the same Jews disobedient?
Ex 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

I still play some of them.

 

[from scratch]

That is where you church and doctrine originated.

Malarkey!!

 

[from scratch]

I have highlighted that which I can agree with.
What I am trying to ascertain is if you are also saying that I can disregard the Ten Commandments. Or Is it the fact that the Holy Spirit will aid me in keeping the Ten commandments. Please note that we are not taking about earning salvation, we are talking about doing the will of God! Does God require us to keep the Commandments by the aid of His Holy Spirit or not?

The short answer is no. You don't want the long answer.

 

[JacobLaw]

Originally Posted by Elder 111 View Post
That is where you church and doctrine originated.

Malarkey!!

That one has my head scratching too.

 

[VictorC]

The way we should regard this is recognizing your dependency on the Roman Catholic Church for your doctrinal assertions. That is the nature of Adventism, depending on a straw man to justify its existence rather than forming a Biblical world view to base its belief system.

You are not serious!

Sure I am. You clearly identify with the RCC to form a straw man argument:

Yeah... what is it with all this catholic dogma here on us non catholics why would we care?

So you disagree with the Catholic Encyclopedia's account?

That is where you church and doctrine originated.

Sophrosyne and I agree that your dependence on a Catholic source is a fallacy you appeal to because you don't accept the Biblical record. Your claim that the doctrines we accept originate with Catholicism is patently wrong, and you cannot document our use of Catholic source material anywhere in any of our posts.

All of this deflection was foreseen, as I mentioned to 'from scratch' in a recent post:

Sales isn't his first calling. Each time someone drops Scripture into his lap, his response is uniform deflection to avoid dealing with his variance with Scripture. And, no one is buying the tainted product.

Sure enough, when I dropped a post citing two chapters in the Bible into your lap, you showed that you don't have any comment on that Biblical record you can't reconcile your beliefs with:

We've told you all along the Sabbath traces its origin coincident with the manna experience about a month before God declared His covenant to His vassal Israel. That you're just now noticing the Sabbath's actual origin shows that you're way behind the learning curve. And no, if you read the account in Exodus 16 you will find that following the weekly cycle marked with the Sabbath was problematic at best, showing that it was a new concept the children of Israel weren't accustomed to. It was not an existing custom, the reason Nehemiah 9:14 attributes the first knowledge of the Sabbath to Moses, after those depicted in the account studied the Book of the Law.

You didn't respond to the content presented to you. When you do this, it forces the conclusion that you openly rejected the record documented in Exodus 16 and Nehemiah 9. To repeat what I posted earlier: That is the nature of Adventism, depending on a straw man to justify its existence rather than forming a Biblical world view to base its belief system.

 

[from scratch]

Sales isn't his first calling. Each time someone drops Scripture into his lap, his response is uniform deflection to avoid dealing with his variance with Scripture. And, no one is buying the tainted product.

At least not here. They must be making sales (converts) somewhere. I hear more are leaving than coming into the SDA group.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Not necessary, because you know of something it does not automatically mean that you do it. Have you played all the games that you have known from childhood? Were not the same Jews disobedient?
Ex 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

If everyone knows how to play Tag, you don't have to explain how to play tag before you do it. If everyone was already familiar with keeping the Sabbath then they would have known to gather extra manna before it just as if Moses knew about how to keep the Sabbath he wouldn't have had to ask what to do about someone caught picking up sticks.

 

[Elder 111]

Maybe I am not sure what you mean by keeping the Commandments?
You are talking specifically about Exodus 20 8-11 right?
So we work 6 days and don't work the 7th day, is that how you keep that particular Commandment?

If that is the case; that is what I do, with some required exceptions, as Jesus pointed at.

I was not speaking of the Sabbath only.
The whole Ten Commandments is what I am referring to.
As you mentioned it, do you mean that you rest on the Seventh day Sabbath?

 

[JacobLaw]

I was not speaking of the Sabbath only.
The whole Ten Commandments is what I am referring to.
As you mentioned it, do you mean that you rest on the Seventh day Sabbath?

mmmmh I thought that was the topic?
What about 6 days of work do you do that also?
or do you not work every one of those 6 days?
How about someone taking a vacation are they breaking the Sabbath because they didn't work every day except the Sabbath?
Not even sure if anyone know what day the Sabbath is either?
So much wrong with understanding your rituals; do you have an outline of your commandment rituals?

 

[mercy1061]

Is there some kind of ritual you are looking for, some outline?

The sabbath is one of the 10 commandments not a ritual. Do you know what a ritual is?

Does it say a man works 6 days and rest the seventh, isn't that part of the commandment?

You have 6 days to finish all your work, if you do not finish your work in 6 days, you do not deserve a day of rest. Why would you rest when your work is undone?

Is some different way we entreat the Sabbaths?

You must treat the sabbath like your Creator, when he finished all of his good work, he rested. if you do not do any good work, you do not deserve a day of rest.

The bondage I am referring too is returning to a law fulfilled.

How was the law fulfilled?

When you are walking in the Spirit you don't have to seek to keep the commandments you just do.

Oh really? Did you read that, or did you just write that?

Remember; you can't be justified by the law and neither can you be an heir by the law.

Are you familiar with inheritance and wills? The children are legal or lawful heirs. If the children become lawless and forsake the law, they forsake their legal rights to their own inheritance. Of course the adversary would love that; he would then steal your lawful inheritance from you.

You have to trust God to lead you in the Spirit wherein the commandments are fulfilled in you, you don't need to fulfill the commandment, Jesus already did that.
But I do enjoy discussing this with you.

You must test the spirit by the spirit; the spirit of the law.

 

[JacobLaw]

The sabbath is one of the 10 commandments not a ritual. Do you know what a ritual is?



You have 6 days to finish all your work, if you do not finish your work in 6 days, you do not deserve a day of rest. Why would you rest when your work is undone?



You must treat the sabbath like your Creator, when he finished all of his good work, he rested. if you do not do any good work, you do not deserve a day of rest.



How was the law fulfilled?



Oh really? Did you read that, or did you just write that?



Are you familiar with inheritance and wills? The children are legal or lawful heirs. If the children become lawless and forsake the law, they forsake their legal rights to their own inheritance. Of course the adversary would love that; he would then steal your lawful inheritance from you.




You must test the spirit by the spirit; the spirit of the law.

LOL, you sound very disagreeable, chuckle, maybe you can answer your own question how did Jesus fulfill the Sabbath, after all he fulfilled the law didn't he?
O yea, that's my point about a ritual tell me the ritual you go through to fulfill the law, maybe there is a method or something, you seem to be fairly confident with what you think, lets hear your conclusions on the matter.

 

[Sophrosyne]

That is where you church and doctrine originated.

Nope, My church's doctrine traces back to the writings of the Bible which traces back to the authors of the Bible which traces back to themselves, not the "catholic" or Roman Catholic churches.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I think everyone who reads this thread should vote "don't care" to truly show how most Christians truly feel about the "importance" of the Sabbath for us.