Is the seventh day the Sabbath?

[VictorC]

So you do admit that the rejection of God Sabbath is rejection of eternal rest.

The adjective 'eternal' does not apply to the Sabbath, which we can all document the origin of. Application of 'eternal' to a periodic entity that ends as often as it repeats also comes across as a oxymoron.

What fail to acknowledge is that Sabbath is the Seventh day Sabbath that God ordained from creation week and Gave Adam and Eve the father of all mankind.

This denies the origin of the Sabbath, and confuses it with God's rest.

It is obvious that God was not in need of rest. neither has He been idol since creation. So the rest is not for God. Jesus made that very clear.
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, Sabbath is not man made!

The passage does not follow your point. Jesus demonstrates His divinity in this passage that claims He owns the Sabbath by virtue of His Lordship over it. The Sabbath isn't God's rest. It doesn't apply to the Creator of the Sabbath. The created Law had a limited jurisdiction, a concept Jesus taught elsewhere according to Matthew 17.

24 When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, “Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?”
25 He said, “Yes.”
And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?”
26 Peter said to Him, “From strangers.”
Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free."​

Taxation is no different from other aspects of any legal ordinance. The Creator retains a natural sovereignty over His creation, and Jesus shows that the King conveys His own Sovereignty to His children.

So much of the Gospel records how we became accounted as children of the King in His adoption that it cannot be ignored.

John 1
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Galatians 4
Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.​

Are the children of Israel heirs of God through Christ?
Are the Gentile nations heirs of God through Christ?
No.
That inheritance belongs to the adopted children of God.
Jesus said “Then the sons are free."

Galatians 5:1
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.​

 

[Sophrosyne]

Yes, this eternal sabbath nonsense for a Day that if not kept doesn't exist at all to those who do not keep it while God's eternal sabbath rest exists despite man not "making" it or not. One can break the Sabbath Day by not keeping or making it happen for themselves but one cannot break God's eternal rest regardless of what they do or not. The Sabbath Day means nothing to many groups of people who know little or care nothing about it does this still make the day eternal? I agree with victor the phrase eternal Sabbath Day is an oxymoron because something that is eternal is either always or not it isn't a cyclical thing that is interrupted by 6 days of work nor can it be broken by non participation while somehow existing eternally. How can something exist if mankind were not to exist? If the Sabbath Day was made for man and related to the earth we have scripture of the Earth passing away which one could conclude there would be no sunup/sundown to tie it to therefore the Sabbath day in that would CEASE TO EXIST thus it would NOT be eternal.

 

[from scratch]

Yes, this eternal sabbath nonsense for a Day that if not kept doesn't exist at all to those who do not keep it while God's eternal sabbath rest exists despite man not "making" it or not. One can break the Sabbath Day by not keeping or making it happen for themselves but one cannot break God's eternal rest regardless of what they do or not. The Sabbath Day means nothing to many groups of people who know little or care nothing about it does this still make the day eternal? I agree with victor the phrase eternal Sabbath Day is an oxymoron because something that is eternal is either always or not it isn't a cyclical thing that is interrupted by 6 days of work nor can it be broken by non participation while somehow existing eternally. How can something exist if mankind were not to exist? If the Sabbath Day was made for man and related to the earth we have scripture of the Earth passing away which one could conclude there would be no sunup/sundown to tie it to therefore the Sabbath day in that would CEASE TO EXIST thus it would NOT be eternal.

Where does this eternal Sabbath come from? According to the prophets this is impossible.

 

[Elder 111]

Nope... you still got it wrong wrong wrong, God has his own sabbath and it isn't a cycle thing God didn't pick up work again after 6 days. Man makes his own Sabbath but it is a day not an eternal rest and he does make it because we see him preparing for it and if he doesn't "do" or "make" it then the Sabbath Day doesn't happen for him. We have billions of people that don't "make" Saturday their Sabbath Day thus they are NOT making the Sabbath at all.

Where are your biblical text for this?

 

[Elder 111]

The first real evidence we see is the promise of a new and different covenant. Then we see that this new and different covenant is in effect by the words of Jesus.

So! Where is the change that Jesus made?

 

[JacobLaw]

How can you claim to have rest or freedom if you refuse to rest?

Hi Mercy1061,
Sorry I didn't follow were you thought I was inferring to refuse rest; please take a moment and explain what you thought I said: because I agree with you that you can't refuse the rest.

 

[Elder 111]

The ideas that God's Holy Sabbath is not for His faithful followers is ludicrous.
Even more so is the idea that the Ten commandments are abolished for Christians!
Look at the progression.

1. We were not keeping the Sabbath so we rejected it.
2. Then realizing that the Sabbath is part of the Ten commandments we agreed that all the commandments were no more.
3. Realizing our mistake in rejecting the Ten we then tried to say that some of the ten are mentioned in the NT but not the Sabbath.
4. Then we saw that the Seventh day Sabbath was in Hebrews 4, so we rejected that the Seventh day and the Sabbath are the same. Even after God said so.

We are going progressively downhill with every denial. God knew this and forecasted that Babylon, we in our confusion, is fallen Rev 14:8
Rev. 18: And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
What has she fallen from?
Truth and grace.
It is very evident that it is God's people who have fallen to the point where Jesus rejects us.
Mat. 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
What did Jesus Say.
Mat 5:
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[JacobLaw]

How has the law been changed? How can it be changed for that matter?
Consider this.
The law says, worship God only. How can the resurrection change that law?
Is it not that we are still to worship God alone?
The argument that the law has been abolished has been handed to us, but look at the Ten commandments again and tell us if we as christains really see them as abolished. List them and tell us the ones that we need not do.

Hi Elder, I think we are on different time zones, but we can try to follow each other.
First nothing wrong with the law it is the substance and evidence that established the Lords words: however the bible is clear that the law of Moses can not justify us; Acts 13:39, which requires a change in the law after the resurrection see it is necessity of a change, not an abolishment. Hebrews 7:12
We do all the law through Christ Jesus, it is his work not our work, it is his faith not our faith, we are just heirs of his faith and works.
That is God's mercy that he gave us his grace that we might be justified by his faith, which is evident by his works the substance of his salvation.

 

[from scratch]

So! Where is the change that Jesus made?

What exactly are you looking for and demanding? Is it thou shalt worship on Sunday only by being parked in a pew at the local Christian assembly?

 

[from scratch]

The ideas that God's Holy Sabbath is not for His faithful followers is ludicrous.
Even more so is the idea that the Ten commandments are abolished for Christians!
Look at the progression.

1. We were not keeping the Sabbath so we rejected it.
2. Then realizing that the Sabbath is part of the Ten commandments we agreed that all the commandments were no more.
3. Realizing our mistake in rejecting the Ten we then tried to say that some of the ten are mentioned in the NT but not the Sabbath.
4. Then we saw that the Seventh day Sabbath was in Hebrews 4, so we rejected that the Seventh day and the Sabbath are the same. Even after God said so.

We are going progressively downhill with every denial. God knew this and forecasted that Babylon, we in our confusion, is fallen Rev 14:8
Rev. 18: And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
What has she fallen from?
Truth and grace.
It is very evident that it is God's people who have fallen to the point where Jesus rejects us.
Mat. 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
What did Jesus Say.
Mat 5:
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

That isn't my covenant And I'm not obligated to anything within that covenant. No that doesn't mean I can now lie, steal, murder and commit adultery. So don't give us that absurd argument we can now sin with out a problem.

 

[mercy1061]

How do you explain the Father working till now? I don't see this relates to the Father's (God's) Sabbath because if it does you are proving God doesn't keep the Sabbath Day by that scripture as it doesn't equate working 6 days on 1 day off but working ALL THE TIME till now.

It is you that claim that G-d rested, his eternal rest. Yet his works are still in existence since the beginning. How long has your work or new doctrine been in existence? I don't understand how you can logically conclude your assumption when it is you that openly without shame dishonor the law; profane sabbath. The priests were allowed to profane sabbath so as long as they obeyed the law of circumcision.

 

[JacobLaw]

The dilemma of our understanding can only be seen in the fullness of every word of God: because our spirit is void without the his quickening, therefore we seek justification in our own mind.

Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

So without quoting the whole bible I think I put the verses together that could help with the explanation of why the works of the law can be misconstrued to how we apply or don't apply it to ourselves. We keep the Sabbaths in a very different way than before the resurrection but never the less we do keep the Sabbaths. "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[Elder 111]

Hi Elder, I think we are on different time zones, but we can try to follow each other.
First nothing wrong with the law it is the substance and evidence that established the Lords words: however the bible is clear that the law of Moses can not justify us; Acts 13:39, which requires a change in the law after the resurrection see it is necessity of a change, not an abolishment. Hebrews 7:12
We do all the law through Christ Jesus, it is his work not our work, it is his faith not our faith, we are just heirs of his faith and works.
That is God's mercy that he gave us his grace that we might be justified by his faith, which is evident by his works the substance of his salvation.

From Adam to us are save only by faith in Jesus. Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Faith in Jesus and the fact that we are save only by His merits does not mean that the Ten Commandments are not for us to keep.
Can you honestly tell me that the Holy Spirit does not lead us to keep the following?
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Which of these should the follower of Christ not keep?
Which did Jesus exclude us from in Mat. 5

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Elder 111]

What exactly are you looking for and demanding? Is it thou shalt worship on Sunday only by being parked in a pew at the local Christian assembly?

Even that, or the statement that says you have heard it said of old thou shall not commit adultery but I tell you forget it all together I have paid for your sins.

 

[Elder 111]

That isn't my covenant And I'm not obligated to anything within that covenant. No that doesn't mean I can now lie, steal, murder and commit adultery. So don't give us that absurd argument we can now sin with out a problem.

That is the confusion. You don't steal lie or commit adultery but the very commandments that say the same thing is not for you. Jesus says you should not steal. You say it does not apply to you but it does not mean that you are a thief. Make sense to you?

 

[Elder 111]

The dilemma of our understanding can only be seen in the fullness of every word of God: because our spirit is void without the his quickening, therefore we seek justification in our own mind.

Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

So without quoting the whole bible I think I put the verses together that could help with the explanation of why the works of the law can be misconstrued to how we apply or don't apply it to ourselves. We keep the Sabbaths in a very different way than before the resurrection but never the less we do keep the Sabbaths. "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

You quoted Jeremiah 31:31 what about the next few verses? It is the same law that is written on our hearts not removed!

 

[from scratch]

It is you that claim that G-d rested, his eternal rest. Yet his works are still in existence since the beginning. How long has your work or new doctrine been in existence? I don't understand how you can logically conclude your assumption when it is you that openly without shame dishonor the law; profane sabbath. The priests were allowed to profane sabbath so as long as they obeyed the law of circumcision.

Seeing he's not subject to that law he can't violate or desecrate/profane it. OTH if one claims to keep the law and doesn't they profane the law.

 

[from scratch]

From Adam to us are save only by faith in Jesus. Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Faith in Jesus and the fact that we are save only by His merits does not mean that the Ten Commandments are not for us to keep.
Can you honestly tell me that the Holy Spirit does not lead us to keep the following?
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Which of these should the follower of Christ not keep?
Which did Jesus exclude us from in Mat. 5

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Can one say the Holy Spirit leads us to the law in the face of Galatians 5? Only with denial and unbelief.

 

[from scratch]

Even that, or the statement that says you have heard it said of old thou shall not commit adultery but I tell you forget it all together I have paid for your sins.

Excellent cover of admitting the truth.

 

[from scratch]

That is the confusion. You don't steal lie or commit adultery but the very commandments that say the same thing is not for you. Jesus says you should not steal. You say it does not apply to you but it does not mean that you are a thief. Make sense to you?

No confusion for me. My nature has changed and my body is better at following suit.