Things to consider about the Ten Commandments

[tzadik]

Very Now show where that provision is in the law by the law. BTW the law didn't exist in Noah's day according to the same Book of the Law.

You mean to tell me that it was ok to dishonor parents, steal, commit adultery, have relations with the same gender, serve other gods, work on the seventh day and murder before Mt. Sinai?

 

[from scratch]

So who died for us? Jesus died for the sins under the first Covenant it looks like. For those who broke the ten Commandments. We don't have no Ten commandments according to you.

And VictorC is correct according to the Bible -

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

The above passage covers every issue and angle of your false argument.

 

[tzadik]

No, it doesn't say that - and I pointed out the translators recognition of capitalizing the pronoun 'He' for good reason. Use another translation if necessary to see this.

τοτε ειρηκεν ιδου ηκω του ποιησαι ο θεος το θελημα σου αναιρει το πρωτον ινα το δευτερον στηση

The word for covenant διαθηκη is nowhere to be found in verse 9.

It is however found in verse 16 where God is clearly referring to a covenant.

αυτη η διαθηκη ην διαθησομαι προς αυτους μετα τας ημερας εκεινας λεγει κυριος διδους νομους μου επι καρδιας αυτων και επι των διανοιων αυτων επιγραψω αυτους

 

[VictorC]

τοτε ειρηκεν ιδου ηκω του ποιησαι ο θεος το θελημα σου αναιρει το πρωτον ινα το δευτερον στηση

The word for covenant διαθηκη is nowhere to be found in verse 9.

It is however found in verse 16 where God is clearly referring to a covenant.

αυτη η διαθηκη ην διαθησομαι προς αυτους μετα τας ημερας εκεινας λεγει κυριος διδους νομους μου επι καρδιας αυτων και επι των διανοιων αυτων επιγραψω αυτους

Is there a reason you find it necessary to deflect attention away from the question regarding 'He'?

 

[from scratch]

So grace only exists in the new testament? What a bunch of dispenational hogwash. Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Try reading Zech. 4:7

Grace isn't a function of the law. The death of Jesus wasn't affective till it actually happened.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Gen 2: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Grace prevented Adam and Eve from dying that day. Eternal death was theirs from that moment.
Grace prevented David's death at the time of His actions.
The bible said Noah found Grace. Genesis 6:8 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
You want to try again or reject God word?

Wrong, Adam died spiritually that day... but then we know you cannot discern the spirituality of Christianity refusing to admit that you substituted the carnality of it in place. Grace didn't prevent David's death at all God took his child instead of him it died for no reason and grace didn't keep it alive. As for the word "grace" it is translated in non KJV version as favor and isn't a correlation with the Grace found in the NT and again comes by his actions. The Grace in the NT comes not by any action we do but by God's actions while we were yet sinners. Noah only got noticed and had favor because he was trying to not sin which is not what Grace Paul speaks of. I'm not rejecting a thing you are playing word games yet again without full meaning and context stripped away like taking the word "Sabbath" or "Command" or "Commandment" or "Law" and equating it identical in meaning throughout every scripture in the Bible to pit Paul against himself and against Jesus and make the Law = Grace. It is a detestable practice.

 

[tzadik]

And VictorC is correct according to the Bible -

8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

The above passage covers every issue and angle of your false argument.

lol.

Your interpretation of the above verse calls....all the below people liars.

Jesus
"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

"In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Luke
They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.

Paul
take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.

for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

James
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

Either their liars, or they're not righteous...take your pick.

 

[from scratch]

What about David?

The law brought death in David's case.

 

[tzadik]

Is there a reason you find it necessary to deflect attention away from the question regarding 'He'?

If 'deflecting' = speaking and standing up for truth...then I'm afraid I'll never stop.

You claim verse 9 is referring to the covenant on Mt. Sinai.

You have yet to prove how, since there is NO mention of any covenant in said verse.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Dis you not read what Paul said in that respect? " law was ordained to life" Not me Paul, bible!
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
You make it sound like it is our own words it is not! God said it and I believe God!
​

Wait a minute!!! I quoted exactly what Paul said and I am perverting Paul's words?
There is perversion but look for the source again, because it is not originating with the word of God that I quoted!

I've already dealt with Romans chapter 7 and proved that you are stripping out one part OUT OF CONTEXT and the meaning of the entire chapter is being TOTALLY REJECTED by you in that effort.
Notice what Paul says AFTER your highlighted verse there " I FOUND TO BE UNTO DEATH". Are you so blind that you cannot even SEE THAT?

 

[tzadik]

Grace isn't a function of the law. The death of Jesus wasn't affective till it actually happened.

Prove it.

 

[from scratch]

Are you serious?

So what you are telling me that as a believer, redeemed and bought by the blood of the Advocate---that the law will still be a minister for your eternal death?

The law isn't the Advocate.

 

[tzadik]

The law isn't the Advocate.

I could take you through John 1:14 and prove you otherwise...but i don't have that kind of time to waste...

Besides..nowhere in my post was I arguing that.

 

[VictorC]

If 'deflecting' = speaking and standing up for truth...then I'm afraid I'll never stop.

You claim verse 9 is referring to the covenant on Mt. Sinai.

You have yet to prove how, since there is NO mention of any covenant in said verse.

I mentioned where to find the answer regarding where the 'first' is defined, and you ignored it. I asked you Who 'He' refers to, and you ignored that. You jumped into this conversation in response to Elder111's contention that I took away the Ten Commandments, when it is clear that Hebrews 10:9 mentions someone I am not.

You're ignoring the Who.
You're also ignoring the what that follows His disposition.
Tell me Who took away the 'first', and if necessary we can tackle the 'what' topic. You are far from offering a truthful representation of the epistle to the Hebrews.

 

[from scratch]

Let’s once again leave the interpretations on the side and see the confession of the Master Himself.

"For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.”

Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

More importantly as a prophet of Israel like Moses (Deut. 18:18) could not do, teach or say ANYTHING that was contrary to the Law of God. According to Deuteronomy 13, Christ would not be the Messiah if he did not do and teach the Law of God, or taught contrary to the Law of God.

It’s amazing how simple it is to understand Scripture when you use the Law and the Prophets as a litmus test, just like Christ and His followers did.
"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;” [Acts 24:14]

If it agrees with the Law and the Prophets, accept it. If not reject it! After all, even Christ Himself would not be Christ, unless He brought to fruition what was prophesied and spoken of Him in the Law and the Prophets. This is why He always used the Law and the Prophets to prove who He was!

“Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures” [Luke 24.]

So yes Jesus taught the Law, Jesus taught from the Law, Jesus kept the Law, Jesus taught that the Law will not pass away, Jesus taught us to do and teach even the least of God’s commandments, Jesus taught us to do good on the Sabbath, Jesus taught us to the deep Spiritual meaning of the Law, Jesus is the goal of the Law!

OK so you reject the Bible. Now what? How can we discuss anything found within the Bible? You don't accept it.

 

[from scratch]

None of us would have your definition of grace, if your definition = PERFECT blissful, cakewalk, roses and sunshine for the rest of your life!

Until we have that perfect and sinless body, we will continue to sin, and the perfect and Holy God will always judge that sin. Sin = missing and going against the Will and Word of God. Being saved by grace through faith, does not make you sinless. You will still miss the mark and will need to repent.


You must lead a perfect, trial free life Soph. James 1 must’ve not been written for you…it was written for men like Noah and Adam who went through trials and tribulation.

you calling his theology garbage? Where do you get yours? Do you subscribe to name it and claim it? Come to Jesus and EVERYTHING will be perfect?
That’s not what the Word of God teaches.

The difference between David as an unbeliever and David as a believer saved by grace is that he now has an Advocate when he sins. He can repent and restore his right-standing with the Almighty! As a child of God, David still suffered the consequences of his sin, just like I do today.

lol
I seriously just chuckled. Jesus Christ was the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world!
Everyone that has ever been saved, everyone who has been redeemed, from Adam until the one redeemed this very second are saved by THE WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE. There is NO OTHER way to be saved then by grace through faith in the Messiah!

So before you go throwing Abraham…THE FATHER of your faith out of the body of Christ…you might want to think twice and go back to basics.

You need to read and believe Romans.

 

[tzadik]

You need to read and believe Romans.

1. Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,
2. which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures,
3. concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh,
4. who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,
5. through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,

What is 'the obedience of faith'?

 

[from scratch]

How can you be delivered from a law you claim was never given to you?

The very same way you think you can require me to obey a law that has no jurisdiction over me.

 

[tzadik]

The very same way you think you can require me to obey a law that has no jurisdiction over me.

So no answer?

How are you delivered from a law, you claim was never given to you?

 

[from scratch]

When the commandments were given at Mt. Sinai, Israel was not a sovriegn nation at this time. The sons of Abraham were a mixed multitude, like nomads or strangers wandering in the wilderness.

Yes they were.