Transgender people

[Marius27]

Ironically, I AM a fundamentalist. Guess that illustrates the problem I have with finding a church I can worship with.

What makes you consider yourself Fundamentalist? Accepting the Fundamentals of Christianity and following the Christian Fundamentalist movement which was invented in the 20th Century as an attack on liberalism and pretty much exemplifies everything wrong with organized religion are 2 different things.

 

[Inkfingers]

How should the Church treat transgender individuals? What role can/should these individuals have?

We should treat such people the same way that we should treat all people with mental illness; compassionately, but firmly, and in no way enabling or endorsing the delusion with which they suffer.

So they should be required to dress and behave as their actual sex, not the one they believe themselves to be, and should be excluded from activity unless they conform to such.

 

[StephanieSomer]

We should treat such people the same way that we should treat all people with mental illness; compassionately, but firmly, and in no way enabling or endorsing the delusion with which they suffer.

So they should be required to dress and behave as their actual sex, not the one they believe themselves to be, and should be excluded from activity unless they conform to such.

I'd take issue with that based on the fact that I have no mental illness.

Those who claim it IS such are being deceived or dishonest.

 

[Inkfingers]

I'd take issue with that based on the fact that I have no mental illness.

Those who claim it IS such are being deceived or dishonest.

If you genuinely believed that you were a horse, you have a delusion.

If you genuinely believed that you were Napoleon, you have a delusion.

If you were white and genuinely believed that you were black, you would have a delusion.

But apparently if you are a man, and genuinely believe yourself to be a woman, or you are a woman and genuinely believe yourself to be a man, you don't? Sorry, no, that is nonsense and denial. Such people have as much a delusion as the others I have listed.

 

[FireDragon76]

What makes you consider yourself Fundamentalist? Accepting the Fundamentals of Christianity and following the Christian Fundamentalist movement which was invented in the 20th Century as an attack on liberalism and pretty much exemplifies everything wrong with organized religion are 2 different things.

I think her self-description as fundamentalist is apt, judging from how she was describing her past. It would probably shock a lot of conservative or fundamentalist Christians to learn, but there are a lot of LGBT Christians that are basically conservative in theology, and wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable in a liberal church. Liberal churches can have very different patterns of theology and worship, for one thing, even if they tend to be friendlier to gays.

I used to go to an Eastern Orthodox church, an extremely conservative religious tradition (but not exactly fundamentalist), I still consider myself relatively conservative (in reality, not on CF... CF's conservatives are more like fundamentalists), so I know what a struggle it is to find a place in Christianity when your experiences don't match up into easy ideologies like "conservative/liberal".

 

[Alithis]

Yes it seems some ,albeit in a world of 7billion+ extremely few who are born with a
Hormonal and/or genital imbalance or even a double up.
I guess they get treated adversely .but so do people with all manner of physical differences.
I think the op is wrong to group the topic with the homosexual topic.I think it has nothing to do with it.
Homosexuality ,like fornication,adultery,porn etc is about sexual immorality.
Transgender is not .it is a physical anomally (sp) ..unless the individual runs around having sex everywhere.. then its a topic of sexual immorality .
So I see they are just people ,like me ,like you.
Treat them as such.
Now I'm honest. They make me uncomfortable. Dont be shocked.. I say that in the same way when I see a man with a hand sticking out of his shoulder.. it's unusual,so I feel uncomfortable around that man.
That would change if I was around him a lot and got to know him.
I know this because I married a lady with a withered leg that does not reach the ground..and I love her intensely ..

There are people. And there is what people do.
Good or evil .
We will not be judged on how we are born .
We are judged by what we do ...

 

[elman]

Yes it seems some ,albeit in a world of 7billion+ extremely few who are born with a
Hormonal and/or genital imbalance or even a double up.
I guess they get treated adversely .but so do people with all manner of physical differences.
I think the op is wrong to group the topic with the homosexual topic.I think it has nothing to do with it.
Homosexuality ,like fornication,adultery,porn etc is about sexual immorality.
Transgender is not .it is a physical anomally (sp) ..unless the individual runs around having sex everywhere.. then its a topic of sexual immorality .
So I see they are just people ,like me ,like you.
Treat them as such.
Now I'm honest. They make me uncomfortable. Dont be shocked.. I say that in the same way when I see a man with a hand sticking out of his shoulder.. it's unusual,so I feel uncomfortable around that man.
That would change if I was around him a lot and got to know him.
I know this because I married a lady with a withered leg that does not reach the ground..and I love her intensely ..

There are people. And there is what people do.
Good or evil .
We will not be judged on how we are born .
We are judged by what we do ...

AMEN!

 

[StephanieSomer]

If you genuinely believed that you were a horse, you have a delusion.

If you genuinely believed that you were Napoleon, you have a delusion.

If you were white and genuinely believed that you were black, you would have a delusion.

But apparently if you are a man, and genuinely believe yourself to be a woman, or you are a woman and genuinely believe yourself to be a man, you don't? Sorry, no, that is nonsense and denial. Such people have as much a delusion as the others I have listed.

First, none of your comparisons are valid.

Second, I have never claimed to "be a woman". Most transsexuals whom I know personally, (many), don't either. I claim to have a male birth sex and a female birth gender. Transition is a process that brings a sense of congruity to my being and in so doing removes a great deal of angst that was present, and thereby allows a productive and full life.

You are equating sex and gender. No knowledgeable person does this. Only the uninformed equate the two.

 

[AGTG]

Transition is a process that brings a sense of congruity to my being and in so doing removes a great deal of angst that was present, and thereby allows a productive and full life.

So, basically, because it feels better to do it, you do it?

 

[StephanieSomer]

So, basically, because it feels better to do it, you do it?

Oversimplification is quite equitable to a direct contradiction. As such, it would be a deception to say that.

 

[KitKatMatt]

So, basically, because it feels better to do it, you do it?

Correct treatment tends to make people feel better, and is the reason why they undergo the treatment.

I take anti-anxiety medication because it makes me feel better by relieving my symptoms. It feels better to do it, so I do it.

 

[AGTG]

Look, I think we can all agree that sin feels good in the moment. As such, it's deceptive. In fact, the God personifies sin multiple times in the Bible. It's a powerful force that only the Spirit of God can overcome.

The real issue with Christianity today is the poor teachings about overcoming by the power of the Holy Spirit. I don't know how many Christians I've run into who basically shrug their shoulders when it comes to how to deal with sin or walk in the victory that is clearly taught in the New Testament.

There are 3 basic battles that each Christian faces:

#1) Their fleshly desires.

#2) Temptation from Satan.

#2) The pressure of the world to conform to its ways.

None of these things can be overcome without Jesus' resurrection power. Additionally, because these three forces sometimes work in concert, believers often grow weary and resign themselves to walk in a manner that is against God's will for them.

There is a solution, though, and it's in the scriptures. We resist the devil, we mortify the flesh, we renounce the world's ways and confess and align with God's truths. We call upon Father God to deliver us from these bodies of death!

 

[Hetta]

There is a constant wave of discussion on this website about homosexuality, gays in the church, SSM, etc (however one sided many such conversations are due to site rules)...but there is not much talk about the T in LGBT.

In the few talks I've seen (online or in person), it seems as those these individuals receive a blanket condemnation from Christians - because you're either a man or woman, etc.

How should the Church treat transgender individuals? What role can/should these individuals have?

They are as loved as everyone else by God, and they should be loved by the rest of us too.

 

[Hetta]

We should treat such people the same way that we should treat all people with mental illness; compassionately, but firmly, and in no way enabling or endorsing the delusion with which they suffer.

So they should be required to dress and behave as their actual sex, not the one they believe themselves to be, and should be excluded from activity unless they conform to such.

Wow. How horrifying.

Thank God you don't have the power to treat people like small children or slaves.

 

[KitKatMatt]

Treatment of a medical issue is not sin

 

[KitKatMatt]

So they should be required to dress and behave as their actual sex, not the one they believe themselves to be, and should be excluded from activity unless they conform to such.

I thrive on spite, so it makes me very happy to be reading this paragraph while wearing men's underwear (and pants, and shoes, and shirt)

 

[Hetta]

Treatment of a medical issue is not sin

Not it's not and one of the rules of CF is that people are not allowed to give out medical advice.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Look, I think we can all agree that sin feels good in the moment. As such, it's deceptive. In fact, the God personifies sin multiple times in the Bible. It's a powerful force that only the Spirit of God can overcome.

The real issue with Christianity today is the poor teachings about overcoming by the power of the Holy Spirit. I don't know how many Christians I've run into who basically shrug their shoulders when it comes to how to deal with sin or walk in the victory that is clearly taught in the New Testament.

There are 3 basic battles that each Christian faces:

#1) Their fleshly desires.

#2) Temptation from Satan.

#2) The pressure of the world to conform to its ways.

None of these things can be overcome without Jesus' resurrection power. Additionally, because these three forces sometimes work in concert, believers often grow weary and resign themselves to walk in a manner that is against God's will for them.

There is a solution, though, and it's in the scriptures. We resist the devil, we mortify the flesh, we renounce the world's ways and confess and align with God's truths. We call upon Father God to deliver us from these bodies of death!

Does it feel good to stop beating your head against a wall? So, does the fact that it feels better make it sin? Your premise is very weak here. Please make a well-thought out, accurate, supportable with evidence and data AND Scripture argument to base your position on.

You have jumped way past the initial required reasoning and landed on deliverance as being the solution. Before asking for deliverance, it has to be sinful. Which it isn't. Go back and prove that it is from Scripture, not your assumptions. THEN proceed.

 

[Joykins]

The church should acknowledge that trans people are dealing with a very difficult issue in the best way they can and respond with compassion and support. I know many Christians see sex and gender issues in a very black and white binary way and may even consider the violation of these norms as more important to condemn than to obey the simple commandment to love your neighbor. I don't really get that attitude, but am forced to acknowledge that it exists.

 

[StephanieSomer]

The church should acknowledge that trans people are dealing with a very difficult issue in the best way they can and respond with compassion and support. I know many Christians see sex and gender issues in a very black and white binary way and may even consider the violation of these norms as more important to condemn than to obey the simple commandment to love your neighbor. I don't really get that attitude, but am forced to acknowledge that it exists.

I wish all I had to do was acknowledge it. I have it thrown at me.

The really ironic part is that if I had never spoken up and been open about who and what I am, nobody here would have ever guessed.

Same goes in my day to day life. If I never outed myself to people, most would never suspect a thing. I've had too many people express very real surprise at the disclosure.

But, if I were to live like that, I'd be trading hiding one issue for another one. I much prefer to live honestly.

How many of you have something in your life that you know many people would hold against you if they knew? Are you open about it, or hide it as best you can? I'll tell you a secret..... MOST people are hiding something. Odds are you, my dear reader, are too, whoever you may be.