Transgender people

[graceandpeace]

There is a constant wave of discussion on this website about homosexuality, gays in the church, SSM, etc (however one sided many such conversations are due to site rules)...but there is not much talk about the T in LGBT.

In the few talks I've seen (online or in person), it seems as those these individuals receive a blanket condemnation from Christians - because you're either a man or woman, etc.

How should the Church treat transgender individuals? What role can/should these individuals have?

 

[StephanieSomer]

The wording of your OP makes it seem as though the question is aimed at those who are not transgender. Since that excludes me, I'll hold my tongue for the moment and watch and learn.

 

[graceandpeace]

The wording of your OP makes it seem as though the question is aimed at those who are not transgender. Since that excludes me, I'll hold my tongue for the moment and watch and learn.

I apologize, please do share your thoughts or experience if you want. I did not mean to exclude anyone from responding.

 

[SnowyMacie]

I've personally come to the conclusion that transgender people are "victims" of a birth defect like someone with a cleft palate/lip such as myself. There's nothing wrong with them, but something went wrong during prenatal development that caused their physiological and psychological sex to be misaligned. They've done studies to show a difference in brain shape.


I don't think the church should treat them any different than anyone else. I do think the church should be supportive of sex reassignment, and be supportive of people who are going through major psychological issues because of this. As I mentioned in another thread, and I'll quote myself to prove it. I used to think I was transgender, but I consider myself something different now, but I wasn't "confused about my gender" until a pastor told me I had as he called it "gender confused." I simply didn't have a word.

I used to know people like you, heck I even was you. I'm not transgender, but there was a time when I thought I was. I told people, people like you because that's who I knew. They said what you said "I was confused." I wasn't confused, I was wrong...mainly because I didn't know the word for what I was , but I knew and still know that while I have the physical body of a man I don't necessarily think like one. I've known I was different since I was 12, but childhood memories and even videos show it goes back to toddler hood.

 

[AGTG]

This whole idea of sub-categorizing people who are not in right relationship with Father God is absurd.

Here's how it works: Sin separates us from Father God. If we turn from the sin and seek Father God's ways, He will grant us the power to do so through the atoning work of Jesus on the cross. He will wash away all our past sins, and as we walk with Him He will give us the power to overcome other sins as we are changed and transformed.

Is this really hard to grasp?

The only real problem we're having is what defines sin and how do we deal with it.

Both of those questions are clearly answered by the Bible and millions upon millions of people have been witness to the power of those answers and are walking the earth right now to give testimony.

Anyone who approaches God with the notion to define Him and His ways is not humble. And God opposes the proud.

 

[StephanieSomer]

This whole idea of sub-categorizing people who are not in right relationship with Father God is absurd.

Here's how it works: Sin separates us from Father God. If we turn from the sin and seek Father God's ways, He will grant us the power to do so through the atoning work of Jesus on the cross. He will wash away all our past sins, and as we walk with Him He will give us the power to overcome other sins as we are changed and transformed.

Is this really hard to grasp?

The only real problem we're having is what defines sin and how do we deal with it.

Both of those questions are clearly answered by the Bible and millions upon millions of people have been witness to the power of those answers and are walking the earth right now to give testimony.

Anyone who approaches God with the notion to define Him and His ways is not humble. And God opposes the proud.

I am a Christian, first and foremost before anything else. I also happen to be a transsexual. And my relationship with the Father is quite well. We talk numerous times a day on a regular basis.

Being transsexual, and pursuing transition is not sin. And I'd challenge anyone who holds such a position to justify it Scripturally. I tried to. For several years I tried to. I did so because I believed exactly what you are saying, at the time. My point in trying to prove it was to have a solid Scriptural basis to stand on in order to be able to withstand the repercussions of it. It cannot be shown from Scripture that what you are implying is true. I changed my position because of the Scripture. And in so doing found out WHY God made me thus. It was not a curse. It was His blessing, even though it caused a great stir in me for many years. He truly IS good!

 

[StephanieSomer]

There is a constant wave of discussion on this website about homosexuality, gays in the church, SSM, etc (however one sided many such conversations are due to site rules)...but there is not much talk about the T in LGBT.

In the few talks I've seen (online or in person), it seems as those these individuals receive a blanket condemnation from Christians - because you're either a man or woman, etc.

How should the Church treat transgender individuals? What role can/should these individuals have?

You ask what role I can/should have. I am a musician, I play the guitar and write music. I have ministered in quite a few churches over the years. However those were long before I transitioned. Frankly, I have had a really hard time finding a church that I can be comfortable in theologically since I transitioned. I am quite conservative, fundamental, and charismatic.

The few churches I have attended since transitioning were quite distant from me theologically. And I have difficulty supporting a church that is so far afield from my theology. I don't need to agree on every point with anyone, but when the main tenets of the faith aren't held to, I can't stay. And I do miss enjoying corporate worship.

So, the vast majority of my music nowadays is just between my Lord and I.

 

[GenetoJean]

My Episcopal Church has welcomed me with open arms. Since starting to go to the church less then a year ago, I am on the Bell Choir, have served as Crucifer, and have served as Chalice Bearer. I am also being talked to by the Girl Scout Leader of the troop that the church sponsers to help out there.

 

[AGTG]

I am a Christian, first and foremost before anything else. I also happen to be a transsexual. And my relationship with the Father is quite well. We talk numerous times a day on a regular basis.

Being transsexual, and pursuing transition is not sin. And I'd challenge anyone who holds such a position to justify it Scripturally. I tried to. For several years I tried to. I did so because I believed exactly what you are saying, at the time. My point in trying to prove it was to have a solid Scriptural basis to stand on in order to be able to withstand the repercussions of it. It cannot be shown from Scripture that what you are implying is true. I changed my position because of the Scripture. And in so doing found out WHY God made me thus. It was not a curse. It was His blessing, even though it caused a great stir in me for many years. He truly IS good!

Being transgendered was a blessing from God? I'd like to see your Biblical standing for this in the scripture.

 

[Marius27]

This whole idea of sub-categorizing people who are not in right relationship with Father God is absurd.

Being transgender has nothing to do with not being in a relationship with God. Please take such heresy to the Fundamentalist forum if you're going to post that.

 

[mmksparbud]

This whole idea of sub-categorizing people who are not in right relationship with Father God is absurd.

Here's how it works: Sin separates us from Father God. If we turn from the sin and seek Father God's ways, He will grant us the power to do so through the atoning work of Jesus on the cross. He will wash away all our past sins, and as we walk with Him He will give us the power to overcome other sins as we are changed and transformed.

Is this really hard to grasp?

The only real problem we're having is what defines sin and how do we deal with it.

Both of those questions are clearly answered by the Bible and millions upon millions of people have been witness to the power of those answers and are walking the earth right now to give testimony.

Anyone who approaches God with the notion to define Him and His ways is not humble. And God opposes the proud.

Soooo---being born with a cleft palate is a sin? Being born with 2 heads on one body is a sin? And if one of the heads is male and the other female, which head is in sin? And if there are conjoined twins--is that a sin? Countless people have been born with more than one DNA--parts of their body has the DNA of an absorbed twin and that DNA can be of an absorbed twin of the opposite sex--so which part of that DNA is in sin?
God also opposes the heartless,uncompassionate, willfully ignorant and those who oppose His right to allow humans to be born with no end of birth defects for us to figure out how to love and help them be all they can be.

 

[Cute Tink]

I hope that, due to my beliefs, that I am not intruding, but I thought I would offer my thoughts on the first of your questions, as to how the church should treat us.

First and foremost, I would hope that a church would do its research before hoping to minister to a trans person. Know what transgender and transsexual mean. There is a lot of misinformation out there and much of it is hurtful. Despite the fact that we are grouped in with (and often forgotten by) the LGBT, being trans has nothing to do with sexual attraction, so approaching us as some 4th form of gay is going to be misleading.

One thing that trans people have in common with the LGB is a tendency to be pushed out by friends, family, churches and the rest of society. Coming out is incredibly stressful and for trans people who have gone full time (sometimes without having the benefit of medical treatment first as requirements do vary), they may feel incredibly vulnerable and could very well be victims of violence. Be gentle and cautious.

Other than that, just remember that in every way that matters, we are people. We have all the same worries and fears and questions as everyone else.

 

[Cute Tink]

.

 

[Marius27]

Being transgendered was a blessing from God? I'd like to see your Biblical standing for this in the scripture.

Not necessarily like our understanding of transgenders, but:

Matthew 19:11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

 

[StephanieSomer]

Being transgender has nothing to do with not being in a relationship with God. Please take such heresy to the Fundamentalist forum if you're going to post that.

Ironically, I AM a fundamentalist. Guess that illustrates the problem I have with finding a church I can worship with.

 

[StephanieSomer]

Not necessarily like our understanding of transgenders, but:

Matthew 19:11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

In the 5 year study I did, I found this DID apply.

However, to answer the other post about substantiating my gift from God, I'd point first to Rom 8:28,

"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose."

I'd also suggest that the "thorn in the flesh" that Paul speaks of was considered a blessing in Paul's eyes, though obviously not pleasant..

Being born as a transsexual did not make for a happy childhood. Nor was it peaches and cream for the next few decades. It was not until I embarked on a deeper study of it that I learned that ALL things were a blessing from God. All means all. Both the pleasant and the unpleasant.

 

[AGTG]

Ironically, I AM a fundamentalist. Guess that illustrates the problem I have with finding a church I can worship with.

Does God expect us to be changed and transformed? Is it right for God to set boundaries for His people?

 

[StephanieSomer]

Does God expect us to be changed and transformed? Is it right for God to set boundaries for His people?

Rom 12:2
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

The whole history of Israel teaches a wonderful lesson about our great God. He never limits us for His own pleasure. He does so for our benefit. Faith comes into play on our part by recognizing that He can see what we cannot. It is His broader vision and compassion that motivates Him to set boundaries for us. It is our love for Him and trust which motivates us to follow His direction, knowing that He wants what is best for us.

 

[AGTG]

Being born as a transsexual did not make for a happy childhood. Nor was it peaches and cream for the next few decades. It was not until I embarked on a deeper study of it that I learned that ALL things were a blessing from God. All means all. Both the pleasant and the unpleasant.

My heart goes out to you, as I am sure there has been a great deal of pain and suffering for you over the years.

But... What I've learned from God is that His Holy Spirit works miracles in our minds and hearts if we want Him to. What I mean to say is, I struggled for decades with a particular sin.

It was really hurting my marriage and causing a great deal of pain for myself and my own self-concept. When the Holy Spirit came into my heart and finally convicted me of it, I was filled with the fear of God because the implication was clear: If I continued on with this sin controlling my life I was going to the pit at the end of it all.

I was so afraid because I knew I had tried to turn from this sin again and again over the years and I was helpless to it. Like Peter says, I was like a dog returning to its vomit. I simply couldn't stop how this sin was controlling me.

But Father God pointed to His Son Jesus as the solution. I knew I had to turn from this sin in sincere repentance and seek God. When the temptations came, I called upon the name of Jesus to give me strength to get through the temptation and He always gave me the way of escape. All the while, I prayed, fasted, studied the Word of God, and asked Father God to baptize me with His Holy Spirit for the power to overcome.

It was a time of battle, but within a couple weeks of calling upon Jesus name, and not returning to that sin, Jesus broke the power of that sin over me.

No more did it have control over me. It was as if Jesus evicted the power of this sin from out of my heart, and it was now outside of me and weak. It was way easier to refuse the temptations.

It's been 5 years now, and there are many other sins He has rooted out of me in much the same way. It's a process, and the Bible calls it sanctification.

Now that I've submitted to Jesus, I know I'm saved. I bear fruit now, as Jesus said we must. I'm not perfect, but God has been changing me over the years and I wouldn't have it any other way.

We all need this change. It brings life, even when our flesh wants to draw us to death.

Jesus can do this for you, too, if you want Him to. Seek His face, pray, fast, confess the Word of God over your situation. Call upon Jesus' name when the temptations come to return.

It may be very, very painful at first, because the demonic claws which embed in our hearts when we indulge in things against God's will can be very deep.

Jesus can break the power of that sin in a moment, in days, in weeks, or maybe longer. Don't give up, don't give in. You will wake up one morning, like I did, and you will know He has set you free. And when the Lord sets you free, you will be free indeed!

 

[StephanieSomer]

My heart goes out to you, as I am sure there has been a great deal of pain and suffering for you over the years.

But... What I've learned from God is that His Holy Spirit works miracles in our minds and hearts if we want Him to. What I mean to say is, I struggled for decades with a particular sin.

It was really hurting my marriage and causing a great deal of pain for myself and my own self-concept. When the Holy Spirit came into my heart and finally convicted me of it, I was filled with the fear of God because the implication was clear: If I continued on with this sin controlling my life I was going to the pit at the end of it all.

I was so afraid because I knew I had tried to turn from this sin again and again over the years and I was helpless to it. Like Peter says, I was like a dog returning to its vomit. I simply couldn't stop how this sin was controlling me.

But Father God pointed to His Son Jesus as the solution. I knew I had to turn from this sin in sincere repentance and seek God. When the temptations came, I called upon the name of Jesus to give me strength to get through the temptation and He always gave me the way of escape. All the while, I prayed, fasted, studied the Word of God, and asked Father God to baptize me with His Holy Spirit for the power to overcome.

It was a time of battle, but within a couple weeks of calling upon Jesus name, and not returning to that sin, Jesus broke the power of that sin over me.

No more did it have control over me. It was as if Jesus evicted the power of this sin from out of my heart, and it was now outside of me and weak. It was way easier to refuse the temptations.

It's been 5 years now, and there are many other sins He has rooted out of me in much the same way. It's a process, and the Bible calls it sanctification.

Now that I've submitted to Jesus, I know I'm saved. I bear fruit now, as Jesus said we must. I'm not perfect, but God has been changing me over the years and I wouldn't have it any other way.

We all need this change. It brings life, even when our flesh wants to draw us to death.

Jesus can do this for you, too, if you want Him to. Seek His face, pray, fast, confess the Word of God over your situation. Call upon Jesus' name when the temptations come to return.

It may be very, very painful at first, because the demonic claws which embed in our hearts when we indulge in things against God's will can be very deep.

Jesus can break the power of that sin in a moment, in days, in weeks, or maybe longer. Don't give up, don't give in. You will wake up one morning, like I did, and you will know He has set you free. And when the Lord sets you free, you will be free indeed!

I am rejoicing with you for your victory!

However, the point you make by comparing your situation and mine is flawed. I'm not sinning in my transition.

Trust me. I DID repent. Thousands of times over the course of over 50 years. I had prayer. I was anointed. I underwent just about every type of deliverance you can imagine, from pastors and other elders from more than one denomination.

When I learned that it wasn't sin, I realized that to repent of that which is NOT sin is in itself sin. When I finally accepted my transsexuality as a gift from God for my good, I DID hear Him when I spoke to him about it. I had never gotten a response of any kind before when I was fighting it and repenting all the time. All I got from that was an attitude of defeat and despair.

When He stepped into the picture with the revelation from His word that I was NOT in sin, joy came. And though my life still is not easy, I live it in full joy, faith, and knowledge of God's presence with me through it.

One last point just in case you hadn't seen me post about it before. I once agreed with your position. Very much so. I was shown that that position was wrong because it lead me to curse that which God had meant for good.