Is transgender a lie?

[Cute Tink]

Actually the perception of appearances is subjective. The idea that there is the mutilation of body parts is an objective fact.

So would then be mastectomies, appendectomies, hysterectomies...

 

[abacabb3]

I'd disagree. I'd say a child is someone pre-puberty. During puberty you are normally a pre-teen and a teen.

Again, definitions. There is a difference between childhood and adulthood, my example still stands.

It isn't just about thinking your something though. It's deeper than that. Very young children can show signs of it, because they act differently.

Again, emotions are imprecise. DNA isn't. I'm going with the hard facts, you're being wishy washy.

If you eat grass, are always on your hands and knees, and never talk... then perhaps mentally you are like a Zebra (though I doubt that's actually possible).

No, but even if I did I still wouldn't be a Zebra, regardless. My opinion does not determine reality. Truth exists outside our ability to grasp it or not. So, even if I think I am a woman if I have male genetalia, male DNA, male brain proportions (the sizes of sections of the brain in men and women is different) and male hormonal levels, then I am a man, contrary to my false opinion.

I don't think being male and female is simple though.

Well, maybe long division is not simple to you, some things are more difficult for other people. However, for 99.9% of people it is very cut and dry and apart from sophistry and redefining age old terms and understandings, the issue is rather straight forward. No serious philosopher in all of human history until maybe 50 years ago would even entertain any of these notions. That should be a major wake up call.

But in this sentence you accept that they are male. You say that a MALE with two X chromosomes has a disorder. You still think they are male though.

My technical opinion is that those with disorders are a third gender or genderless, I am not a medical expert. But they are not the norm or definitional, that I can assure you.

True, but I think it becomes more difficult when we talk about the mind and the body differing.

No that does not change anything at all. THe mind can lie to oneself or to others. We don't decide our own truths, which essentially your whole paradigm on transgenderism amounts to. It is a foolish mindset that makes the entire universe incomprehensible.

Actually I think we would say it's a dog. It would be a dog in at least some sense. For all practical purposes, it would be a dog; and mentally it would be one.

Reminds me of this scene in the movie Mafia! (1998)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46nDIl8nCGU&index=21&list=PLJb5cfta9OV2e9t-L-eseynaVCIY_b_yZ

00:43:01 Open your present, Joey.

[opens box and sees a rat inside]

00:43:08 - Pop, it's a rat. - No.

00:43:11 - It's a puppy. - But it looks like a rat.

00:43:15 Don't argue with your father. God'll pluck your eyes out.

00:43:17 It's a puppy.

You're the one calling the rat a puppy, or the man a woman. But if it's really a rat or really a man, your opinion is simply foolish.

 

[abacabb3]

So would then be mastectomies, appendectomies, hysterectomies...

Yes, but the difference is that removing an exploding appendix or a cancerous organ is necessary to save a life. Cutting off a gang green limb may be necessary. However, genital mutilation is barbaric and it has to do with mental problems, not saving lives.

I also just want to point out that you cannot address the difference of the subjectivity of your position. Ultimately, your whole opinion is that there are not any objective truths, which I think intellectually is a bankrupt and indefensible position. See the rat video in the above post, pretty much proves it wrong.

 

[Reeniee]

Yes, but the difference is that removing an exploding appendix or a cancerous organ is necessary to save a life. Cutting off a gang green limb may be necessary. However, genital mutilation is barbaric and it has to do with mental problems, not saving lives.

I also just want to point out that you cannot address the difference of the subjectivity of your position. Ultimately, your whole opinion is that there are not any objective truths, which I think intellectually is a bankrupt and indefensible position. See the rat video in the above post, pretty much proves it wrong.

What makes you think that Gender Reassignment Surgery doesn't save lives? Gender Dysphoria can often lead to suicide if untreated.

 

[Skybringr]

From a scientific standpoint, there is no evidence that 'transgender' exists.

Psychology expert Dr. Joseph Berger states that when a person is asked to clarify with absolute certainty whether they are a male or female, the response is always "it's a feeling".
And this response is not scientifically conclusive to anything except that the person is just unhappy or unsatisfied.

The leading thing going for transgenders is a complete emotional appeal in which covers the reality that, as far as science is concerned, is just a person merely wanting to be another gender.

The whole thing altogether has caused a questionable field of work in the medical field. We are giving sex reassignment therapy to these people, and cosmetically changing them.
This in turn causes many of them to have higher morbidity and mortality then others, and in which case, the entirety of 'transgenderism' is in itself harmful and shouldn't be supported.

It is extremely irresponsible of psychiatrists to have gone this route with the alleged transgender community with no scientific facts and appealing to what people want rather then what is medically appropriate.

LifeSiteNews Mobile | Psychiatry expert: ‘scientifically there is no such thing as transgender’

 

[Cute Tink]

Yes, but the difference is that removing an exploding appendix or a cancerous organ is necessary to save a life. Cutting off a gang green limb may be necessary. However, genital mutilation is barbaric and it has to do with mental problems, not saving lives.

Your assessment is incorrect, as Reeniee notes.

I also just want to point out that you cannot address the difference of the subjectivity of your position. Ultimately, your whole opinion is that there are not any objective truths, which I think intellectually is a bankrupt and indefensible position. See the rat video in the above post, pretty much proves it wrong.

Yes, you must be right because in your opinion, anything that doesn't match your opinion is intellectually bankrupt and indefensible. That is such a strong case!

 

[Cute Tink]

From a scientific standpoint, there is no evidence that 'transgender' exists.

If you accept as valid only science or scientists that agree with you, then that is the conclusion you would come to. We've discussed this before. You refuse to look at any evidence that contradicts what you want to believe.

 

[FireDragon76]

No, but even if I did I still wouldn't be a Zebra, regardless. My opinion does not determine reality. Truth exists outside our ability to grasp it or not. So, even if I think I am a woman if I have male genetalia, male DNA, male brain proportions (the sizes of sections of the brain in men and women is different) and male hormonal levels, then I am a man, contrary to my false opinion.

In recent studies in the last decade, it has been shown that transgender individuals often have brain anomalies that do not match their biological, assigned sex, some studies have suggested the brain anomalies are neither male nor female, so this may the be the source of their gender dysphoria. So there is some objective evidence for the phenomenon.

 

[Skybringr]

If you accept as valid only science or scientists that agree with you, then that is the conclusion you would come to. We've discussed this before. You refuse to look at any evidence that contradicts what you want to believe.

There is no evidence

An expert psychiatrist comes right and says it. A rather decorated one, at that. Is he lying? Here it is again:

LifeSiteNews Mobile | Psychiatry expert: ‘scientifically there is no such thing as transgender’

 

[Cute Tink]

There is no evidence

There is. As I said, you refuse to accept it. You cite that link simply because it agrees with what you want to believe. I know what I am and I know what I'm going through. The other evidence, which is supported by the AMA and APA just doesn't say what you wish it said.

 

[Strathos]

Medical science says it isn't.

 

[Skybringr]

Medical science says it isn't.

You all have been saying this forever, but have absolutely nothing to show for it.

At this point, you all are just being dishonest. I've provided an esteemed, decorated psychiatrist's factual observation, *not opinion*, that medical science has no evidence of transgenderism.

He works right up at the top with the best of the best. He's not going to sacrifice his career for telling a lie which, by your claim, is so apparently wrong.

 

[GenetoJean]

You all have been saying this forever, but have absolutely nothing to show for it.

At this point, you all are just being dishonest. I've provided an esteemed, decorated psychiatrist's factual observation, *not opinion*, that medical science has no evidence of transgenderism.

He works right up at the top with the best of the best. He's not going to sacrifice his career for telling a lie which, by your claim, is so apparently wrong.

It takes more then one scientists observations. From reading the article and his statements I can say I know lots of transgender people who would answer his question yes they are female if they are male to female and yes they are Mail if female to male. I am not a scientist and I don't know what constitutes scientific proof. All I know is what works. Transition works and nothing else has.

 

[Strathos]

It is so easy for those who are born "normal" or unchallenged to judge those that are the exceptions to the rule.
I think it has to come down between them and the Lord, although I can not imagine someone having a relationship with someone and not telling them. That would be deceitful.
I can not imagine that the Lord is distraught over a human being that He allows to live... He can deal with those individuals. I think the church could do a much better job of trying to understand and be compassionate toward the LGBT community.

The only people Jesus ever got angry with, were the religious folks who should have known better. When people come to Christ He has promised to give us incorruptible bodies for these bodies of corruption... I pray that we all look forward to that day.
God bless, andrea

Pretty much what I wanted to say.

Some people here are so intolerant of something that isn't even condemned in the Bible.

 

[Skybringr]

Transition works and nothing else has.

Mutilating the body and feeding people hormone pills because they want to be another gender is a disaster to moral medical science and proper psychology.

Having someone live in a fantasy is not a cure.

 

[Armoured]

Mutilating the body and feeding people hormone pills because they want to be another gender is a disaster to moral science and psychology.

Those people need something else other then living in a fantasy world.

...why? If it works, what's your problem with it?

 

[Skybringr]

...why? If it works, what's your problem with it?

Anything that requires mutilation is not a cure. It's a disservice to those who think they transgendered to have the only cure be to alter their natural being.

 

[Cute Tink]

You all have been saying this forever, but have absolutely nothing to show for it.

At this point, you all are just being dishonest. I've provided an esteemed, decorated psychiatrist's factual observation, *not opinion*, that medical science has no evidence of transgenderism.

He works right up at the top with the best of the best. He's not going to sacrifice his career for telling a lie which, by your claim, is so apparently wrong.

No. There is plenty of evidence. As I keep reminding you, we have discussed this before. You wave away anything that doesn't say what you wish it said. It has nothing to do with us not giving anything.

I read your link. He advocates the same failed treatment that used to be the accepted treatment. He belittles trans people the way he speaks of us. He talks about the continued mortality rate of trans people as if societal rejection wasn't a factor.

After reading his statements, I don't doubt his education or credentials, but I do question his motives. If anything, I would say he definitely has an agenda.

 

[Cute Tink]

Anything that requires mutilation is not a cure. It's a disservice to those who think they transgendered to have the only cure be to alter their natural being.

They tried mere psychological techniques and they didn't work.

Using words like mutilation doesn't change that.

 

[loveofourlord]

Mutilation is by definition cutting off an organ. So, the medical community for philosophical reasons can say something is not mutilation, but facts don't change facts.

So cutting of the penis, or testicals when it has cancer, or something else that is life threatening is mutilation not preventative or such procedure? Nice to know.