Simply Put

[ebedmelech]

In 70 AD all the tribes of the earth saw the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory????

Tell you what...Jesus said "all tribes of the earth" in Matthew 24:30, in Matthew 25:32 he said "all the nations will be gathered together".

What do you think the difference is? Have you studied those two phrases? Or do you just accept what you pastor/preacher/teacher says?

 

[n2thelight]

As long as there are wars going on in the world,Christ has not returned,period.....

Matthew 24:6 "And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

There has never been a century of so many wars as there has been in the 1900s. Two of the wars included every nation on the earth, while there have been wars of nations, and peoples within nations. Wars of races, and wars of religions. We see that there are conflicts in Africa, and Europe, and as long as these conflicts are going on, you know that the end simply can not come; "but the end is not yet."

Matthew 24:7 "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilence, and earthquakes, in divers places."

Matthew 24:8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows."

This word "sorrows" in the Greek is "Ydin", and means birth pangs. The word is used only here and in Mark 8, and marks the beginning of the travail of childbirth. The number in Strong's Dictionary is 5604, and this is important, because it reflects the intervals between the events of the signs of the end times.
This translation loses the message that Christ is telling us; for He is saying that when we see this happening, it is the start of the birth of a new age. In other words, it marks the approach of the birth of the second advent, or coming. The events that mark the end will be growing closer and closer together, and when it reaches a point, the birth will begin.

I Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Jesus gave us the six sign to watch for, so that we would not be deceived. Yet most Christians today chose to not believe Jesus. These signs get closer and closer until the child is born. Only instead of the birth of a child; it will be the birth of a new age. That age is called, "Christ's Kingdom", or the millennium age.

When we know God's Word, we know He comes at the seventh trump, and the events, all events must come before then. It's in the Bible, so that we would not be deceived.

Christ will not return until there is peace on this earth(allbeit false)but that's the deception...satan does not come to start a war,he comes to bring peace...

Daniel 8:23 "And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up."

This is why we were told by Paul in Ephesians 6:10-20 to put on the full "armor of God". We were told that "we do not war against the power of arm, but against the power of dark sentences". Our fight is against the "king of fierce countenances", and that king is Satan who will play the role of the Antichrist, or false messiah. That battle is for your soul and not your physical body. This next world war is fought with the weapons of words and half truths, with concepts and precepts that come right out of the Bible, only Satan will twist them to make them a lie. Friend, when this battle starts the only armor that we can use to defend ourselves is God's Word, and those that are caught up in tradition's of men and false doctrine will be easily shaken.

Daniel 8:24 "And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy People."

Satan will destroy many through his deception which will come "wonderfully" by his miracles, and (hard to believe) works. Friend, Satan is coming to look and act just like you would expect Christ to look and act. Though Satan's power will be mighty, he gets power and support through the craftiness of the "one world" governmental system. This system is nothing new to us today for it was formed over forty years ago, and even the kids in grade school have learned to love and respect that filthy system. As we draw near to the coming of the false christ, we will be limited more and more by the laws of this system, as the name of God and our Lord Jesus Christ will be removed from all forms of our lives.

Daniel 8:25 "And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."

 

[riverrat]

Tell you what...Jesus said "all tribes of the earth" in Matthew 24:30, in Matthew 25:32 he said "all the nations will be gathered together".

What do you think the difference is? Have you studied those two phrases? Or do you just accept what you pastor/preacher/teacher says?

Big screen TVs!

 

[mmksparbud]

Tell you what...Jesus said "all tribes of the earth" in Matthew 24:30, in Matthew 25:32 he said "all the nations will be gathered together".

What do you think the difference is? Have you studied those two phrases? Or do you just accept what you pastor/preacher/teacher says?

You do not seem to quite understand what I am asking---it's not wether it's all the tribes or all the nations--it's that you are saying that Christ came and everybody saw Him--all in Matthew 24 was fulfilled--so you are saying Christ came as was predicted and everybody on earth saw Him! It's just I was wondering why nobody ever mentioned it!---I have studied those 2 phrases--it just seems like you haven't!!

 

[Interplanner]

The material in Mt 24A has to do with 1st century Judea; after v29 it has to do with the distant future and universal, nothing about Judea. Actually we now know it was distant future; it could have been 'right after' the unthinkable time of trouble in Judea.

 

[riverrat]

The material in Mt 24A has to do with 1st century Judea; after v29 it has to do with the distant future and universal, nothing about Judea. Actually we now know it was distant future; it could have been 'right after' the unthinkable time of trouble in Judea.

Mt 24:1-2 was fulfilled in 70 AD. The rest deals with the tribulation which is still future.

 

[ebedmelech]

You do not seem to quite understand what I am asking---it's not wether it's all the tribes or all the nations--it's that you are saying that Christ came and everybody saw Him--all in Matthew 24 was fulfilled--so you are saying Christ came as was predicted and everybody on earth saw Him! It's just I was wondering why nobody ever mentioned it!---I have studied those 2 phrases--it just seems like you haven't!!

Well let's see...

1. Jesus is addressing the questions He was asked by the disciples IN THE TIME that they were asking them. They want to know 3 things:

Mathhew 24:3:

3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

1. When will these things happen - referring to the fact that the temple would be destroyed. That happened in 70 AD!

2. "what would be the sign of His coming" - They're asking for the signs of Jesus coming. Jesus told them this answer in Matthew 24:32-34, saying "when YOU (the disciples), see these SIGNS". He makes it clear saying just like one can tell when trees put forth their leaves that summer is near, that when they (the disciples), see the signs he gave they would know it's about to happen.

3. "the signs of the end of the age" - Which Jesus discusses in Matthew 25 which culminates with Jesus coming to judge the world! Matthew 25 doesn't address Jerusalem AT ALL...it is covering the time frame WE ARE NOW IN. The next thing to come is Jesus coming to judge the world, which begins at Matthew 25:31-46...that will be the end of the age!

So when Jesus said in Matthew 24:15-33, MANY want to equate those things in the future. They are not! Those things happened when Jesus came in judgment of Jerusalem/Israel. Jesus even borrowed the language of Isaiah 13:10 as well as Ezekiel 32:7 to make the point that this is judgment! As in Isaiah 13, Isaiah is prophesying the judgment of Babylon, and Ezekiel 32:7 is the judgment of Egypt. This Jesus is speaking of, is judgment on the people of Israel as well as the land. That's what's going on!

Luke REALLY gives us a clearer picture that this is judgment against Jerusalem/Israel, as he says it more plainly in Luke 21:20-24;
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
23 Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;
24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

So...IT HAPPENED! Those people saw this...and it was NOT the end of the world, but the end of Jerusalem/Israel as Christ came in judgment upon them using Rome as His instrument of judgment. That is how the tribes of the earth saw this happen.

It's not going to happen again!

 

[By Faith Alone]

Zechariah 14!!

 

[ebedmelech]

Zechariah 14!!

Did you even bother to read Zechariah 1:1?:
In the eighth month of the second year of Darius, the word of the Lord came to Zechariah the prophet, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo saying,

So now, we know when Zechariah delivered this prophecy. It is before Judah and Israel even returned to the land and rebuilt the temple!

It doesn't mean none of Zechariah is future, BUT it does mean you have to be careful to let Zechariah tell you what it means.

As you post simply "Zechariah 14"...how do you read it?

Zechariah 14:1 is EXACTLY what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 24. That happened in 70 AD!

So now what?

 

[By Faith Alone]

Zech 14:4-5
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, ......and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Acts 1:10-12
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Rev 12:14-16
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

 

[Interplanner]

BFA what is your tagline concern about late letters when Corinthians, Galatians, Acts 13 say the same things about promises, Gospel, believing Jews and Gentiles as Abrahams seed, etc.

 

[riverrat]

BFA what is your tagline concern about late letters when Corinthians, Galatians, Acts 13 say the same things about promises, Gospel, believing Jews and Gentiles as Abrahams seed, etc.

Scripture does not say that a believing Gentile literally becomes a seed of Abraham. Gentiles do not get blood transfusions after believing the gospel.

 

[ebedmelech]

Zech 14:4-5
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, ......and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Do you not understand this is language of Christ separating his people from the world? The splitting of the Mount of Olives is not literal, it is prophetic language that speaks of Christ separating His people, which is what Jesus said in Matthew 24:16:
16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

You also went past verse 3...but pay particular attention to it:
3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.

This is not physical combat...it is Spiritual! Why do you think we are told "the weapons of our warfare ARE NOT carnal"? This is how one departs from the true picture of this prophecy. Ephesians 6:10-18 is in order!

Acts 1:10-12
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

What's your point here? No one denies Jesus shall return...but this isn't Zecariah 14 at all.

Rev 12:14-16
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Do yourself a favor and study poetic, and apocalyptic language of scripture.

Take for instance the "flood of the dragon"...how many times in the Psalms are floods likened to trouble?

Psalm 32:6
Therefore, let everyone who is godly pray to You in a time when You may be found; Surely in a flood of great waters they will not reach him.

Psalm 69:2
I have sunk in deep mire, and there is no foothold; I have come into deep waters, and a flood overflows me.

Just a couple for you there...

Now...wings are symbolic of God's protection:

Psalm 17:8
Keep me as the apple of the eye; Hide me in the shadow of Your wings

Psalm 36:7
How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God! And the children of men take refuge in the shadow of Your wings.

Just a couple for you there...

How about the wilderness? We're in the wilderness now my friend...because we are in the world, but not of the world, and God is with us. Just as He was with Israel through the wilderness, or with David when he fled into the wilderness from Saul.

This then is how you allow scripture to say what it says! You look at HOW SCRIPTURE uses the language.

 

[By Faith Alone]

BFA what is your tagline concern about late letters when Corinthians, Galatians, Acts 13 say the same things about promises, Gospel, believing Jews and Gentiles as Abrahams seed, etc.

It is really simple. First of all, all believers are in Christ where there is no difference but there is a difference according to the flesh as Romans 11 indicates. The "flesh" will be our focus.

The NATION of Israel was conceived the night of the Passover in Egypt. "BEHOLD!! The Bridegroom cometh". God married that nation of the 12 tribes at the foot of Mt. Sanai. Read Hosea. From then on His focus was on that very nation. Gentiles were not included. The inter-testament period proved to be silence from God. When Jesus came to the earth His ministry was to that very nation..."I have not come but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel". The promises to Abraham and Israel was for earthly hope and all under this temporary Heaven in which we live which will be gone as in the book of Revelation. This hope NEVER pierces beyond to the heaven of Genesis 1:1.
Ok. All during the Acts period Israel was the focus as Acts 1:6 and 28:20 will prove. The nation Israel rejected Christ at the Cross and most assuredly at the stoning of Stephen. The dispersed rejected Christ at Acts 28. It was at that point in time the olive tree was cut down and Paul turned exclusively to the gentiles. Gentiles is "ethnos"...nations. At this point in time Israel is numbered AMONG the nations as the one NEW man.

At Acts 28:20 Paul states he was in chains for the hope of Israel. After Acts 28 Paul's ministry changed to be exclusively to the gentiles (Ephesians 3:1, 8).

Listed below are the epistles written AFTER Acts 28 and in that order. Ephesians and Colossians give the full details of the make-up of the one NEW man.
The hope of our calling is to the Heaven far above all to the Heaven of Genesis 1:1 OUTSIDE this temporary Heaven. It is where Christ sits at the right hand of God. The highest hope seen before Acts 28 is the New Jerusalem descending DOWN from Heaven and never at the throne of God.
We are NOT tied to any promises made to Abraham:

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is ...now (63AD) ....revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been... hid in God... who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now (AD 63) in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Do you not understand this is language of Christ separating his people from the world? The splitting of the Mount of Olives is not literal, it is prophetic language that speaks of Christ separating His people, which is what Jesus said in Matthew 24:16:
16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.

You also went past verse 3...but pay particular attention to it:
3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.

This is not physical combat...it is Spiritual! Why do you think we are told "the weapons of our warfare ARE NOT carnal"? This is how one departs from the true picture of this prophecy. Ephesians 6:10-18 is in order!

What's your point here? No one denies Jesus shall return...but this isn't Zecariah 14 at all.

Do yourself a favor and study poetic, and apocalyptic language of scripture.

Take for instance the "flood of the dragon"...how many times in the Psalms are floods likened to trouble?

Psalm 32:6
Therefore, let everyone who is godly pray to You in a time when You may be found; Surely in a flood of great waters they will not reach him.

Psalm 69:2
I have sunk in deep mire, and there is no foothold; I have come into deep waters, and a flood overflows me.

Just a couple for you there...

Now...wings are symbolic of God's protection:

Psalm 17:8
Keep me as the apple of the eye; Hide me in the shadow of Your wings

Psalm 36:7
How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God! And the children of men take refuge in the shadow of Your wings.

Just a couple for you there...

How about the wilderness? We're in the wilderness now my friend...because we are in the world, but not of the world, and God is with us. Just as He was with Israel through the wilderness, or with David when he fled into the wilderness from Saul.

This then is how you allow scripture to say what it says! You look at HOW SCRIPTURE uses the language.

Yeah. Well. I guess I will have to re-think my thinking cuz I thought the plagues in Egypt, the Passover, the crossing of the Red Sea, Moses striking the Rock that spewed forth waters as rivers (which was really the sweat pouring from him onto a little pebble) were all real. NOW...all because of you, I am going to have to re-evaluate the miracles at the hand of the Lord, His resurrection AND ascension.

Ya know. I think I will just pick up the book of Mormon I have and dust it off and read it. Seems to me it would make more sense. Ya think?

 

[By Faith Alone]

SIMPLY PUT:

I once visited a slaughterhouse in Germany and witnessed the butchery of beef and pork. The hogs were dipped live into a vat of boiling water to release the hair. The cows were hung upside down and split from chest to udder. The stench and sight turned my stomach and will never visit one again. For some reason the preterist view has the same effect. Nothing but slaughter and complete disregard for Biblical revelation.

I think the from now on I will not read another preterist post.

 

[ebedmelech]

Yeah. Well. I guess I will have to re-think my thinking cuz I thought the plagues in Egypt, the Passover, the crossing of the Red Sea, Moses striking the Rock that spewed forth waters as rivers (which was really the sweat pouring from him onto a little pebble) were all real. NOW...all because of you, I am going to have to re-evaluate the miracles at the hand of the Lord, His resurrection AND ascension.[/i]

Two different things...and once again a failure to let scripture speak. In the OT the plagues are literal and specifically described as such. However in Revelation, (which is the NT), they are not literal. So two different eras with different application.

Ya know. I think I will just pick up the book of Mormon I have and dust it off and read it. Seems to me it would make more sense. Ya think?[/COLOR][/B]

Do as you wish...because the bottom line is each person, will have their praise of God...or not!

 

[Interplanner]

BFA, if you grasp the logical connectives of Gal 3:6-9 (then and so) you won't be futurist, either. You will then have the historic, apostles' beliefs.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Mic 7:15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.

The Book of Revelation is intimately tied to the Book of Exodus.
As in the Exodus there will be signs and wonders greater in Revelation.

It was on the wings of an eagle (the power of God) Israel was delivered from the hands of the Pharoah's army and will be the same in Revelation.
The flood from the dragon's mouth is symbolic of the same type event but on a larger scale. It is the last wave of antisemitism that strikes the world.
Just as in the wilderness when they were fed with manna will they be fed again for the 3 and 1/2 years in that same wilderness.
The sea swallowed up the enemy to help the woman and the EARTH shall open up and swallow the flood of armies going against Israel in Revelation

Isa 59:19....When... the enemy... shall come in... like a flood...the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.

Num 16:29-33
29 If these men die the common death of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the Lord hath not sent me.
30 But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord.
31 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
32 And... the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.
33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.

And the earth shall swallow up the enemy in Revelation.
Isa 11:15-16
15 And the Lord shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.
16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

 

[By Faith Alone]

BFA, if you grasp the logical connectives of Gal 3:6-9 (then and so) you won't be futurist, either. You will then have the historic, apostles' beliefs.

Not so. At Acts 28 (AD 63) the prophetic clock stopped as in other times when they were "Lo-ammi"(Hosea 1:9). God does not see the time they were in captivity when the gentile calendar does.

All during the Acts period the soon return of Christ was expected but that expectation was dashed in Rome while Paul was in prison. Acts 28 is a dispensation boundary that cannot be ignored, but most do. Antagonism toward the Truth is the mother of error. I have been studying this for too long to give it up on a whim. The book of Revelation may be symbolic but the symbolism reveals a much greater terror than we can imagine. I will not spiritualize away the Truth.