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Came across this recently and it seemed like something that I figured you'd be able to relate to - as seen in Why God should not be left out of the search | paul the Less
When seeing the ways that the Church has traveled and how much of it was reshaped, it makes sense as to why some factors may not be understood as easily - even today, people in the West (as it concerns the Church) are kept from knowing what things are like for people in the East
On the issue, if interested, one of the scholars/historians I've been immensely blessed by (Dr. Philip Jenkins) actually wrote an excellent review on the subject that may help to connect things even more - as seen in How Japanese Christianity Was Destroyed – Part 1 on EthicsDaily.com and How Japanese Christianity Was Destroyed – Part 2 on EthicsDaily.com
...Afro Samurai
Gxg (G²);65454977 said:
Didn't know the image would connect as strongly with you as it did - but I'm glad it connected. I don't think you ever told me what denomination you were a part of in the Protestant culture - but indeed, there are many parts of it similar to the picture.
Not certain as to which video it was that you were meaning...but if you were talking about the Jesus Anime, cool.
Truly among the best ones in existence..
Sounds interesting. It's amazing how many different ones are out there in existence. On a separate note, some of the animes in existence are difficult to go through due to what they represent. And the new ones coming out are interesting to categorize.
Gxg (G²);65510505 said:
Got ya. Was trying to make certain - it seems like you were Roman Catholic, as opposed to the other variations..
Growing up in the Pentecostal world, I'm aware of the circles which can get VERY intensive compared to others..
Gxg (G²);65511464 said:
A lot of times, it seems people having issue with others in CHristianity act like Equalists in that they can make generalizations on ALL within the camp - and then react to them thinking "Well walking away from all of them is justified because of all the mess I saw with the ones I experienced!!" - and yet have no clue on the ways they did damage in the process
Growing up in the Pentecostal world, I'm aware of the circles which can get VERY intensive compared to others..
Good point - for what you expose yourself to is really what you end up being shaped by....and as no one can force you to do so...
Not a problem with the reminder - it always comes in handy when knowing how far your experience can really go.That's certainly true. It's real easy to forget that Christianity is at least one billion strong and that my experiences in a middle class, white Protestant-majority midwestern America are not to be expected the world over. That's often something I forget. Thanks for the reminder.
Also I kind of want to read Manga Messiah simply out of curiosity. I know some people hate it calling it borderline blasphemous but I am not sure what their beef is.
Gxg (G²);65583194 said:
Interesting, seeing that I grew up loving anime and manga but religion was never a sore topic - and I was seen as highly geeky with certain things of pop-culture (and I didn't fit into a lot of molds), even as I saw a lot of irreligious and pagan themes in the comics I loved (just as I saw theistic themes in them). And there were many other teens who were similar - all of us a part of an audience where we connected with certain forms of imagery that parts of the Church were never concerned with even as they claimed they wanted to reach us....and thankfully, some things have changed since.
A lot of it has to do with exalting certain forms of imagery from one era without seeing how the use of imagery to communicate concepts can change over time. There was actually another debate on the matter elsewhere I had with another Orthodox individual (and fellow comic book lover) - as seen here:
[/QUOTE]..you are promoting speculation about an event that should not be speculated about
the defeat of the spiritual powers happened at the Cross, none of which involved Jesus looking like Bruce Lee.
and I am not against Christ being used in comics as a medium, but just like with any kind of art, it better be the right one.
Gxg (G²);64743809 said:"And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he [Jesus] made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross" (Colossians 2:15)Gxg (G²);64744172 said:
The imagery was relevant to the times, as it concerns how Greeks consider visualization with epic aspects and showing Christ to others in like-wise manner. They could show imagery of Christ with his foot on the backs of his enemies because they saw that demonstrated with the enemies of their day when it came to defeat/shame - but of course, as they weren't exposed to imagery of things like enemies being side-kicked as you'd see in Far Eastern Culture (as with martial arts), of course you'd not see depictions of Him as such. But with his foot on the backs of demonic powers, that was already heavy enough/very aggressive in imagery - especially considering how many people in the culture revered demonic powers who did the same. The imagery of the icons was already contemporary in the time it was developed - just as other imagery is today.
Gxg (G²);64770226 said:The halo is from Greek: it is a ring of light that surrounds a person in art, also known as a nimbus, aureole, glory, or gloriole. They have been used in the iconography of many religions to indicate holy or sacred figures, and used in images of rulers or heroes. Not only Christian sacred art represents the halo, but other religions such as Hellenistic Greek, Roman, and Buddhist cultures.
Sacred persons may be depicted with a halo in the form of a golden, yellow or white circular glow around the head, or around the whole body, which is often called a mandorla. The halo is traditionally associated with Christianity and its beginning can be found long before Christ was born - Horus was the god of the sky... Horus was the son of Isis and Osiris and Hathor was a protective goddess. She was also the goddess of love and joy - and above the head is a sun discs that later were halo symbols.
Use of halos seems to have existed hand-in-hand with Egyptian sun and animal worship..as Egyptians halos, usually were depicted as a large Round "solar discs, which are different from our modern day conception of the halo.
But the Greek god of the Sun, Helios, is depicted with a halo around his head.
Again, Greek culture has halos as well, but is nowhere near as abundant as they were with the Egyptians.
Emotion does not always remain seperate from imagery.
We already have this with halos - the equivalent of showing power in others. And Christian artists believed that the halo was symbolic of the light of grace bestowed by God....evoking feelings of awe and majesty. It is because of this that Christians had NO problem using an image from their surrounding culture.
For more review, one can investigate Halos in Western Art: Horus to Jesus Christ to the X-Men - Lope
The halo itself as well as other images invoke emotion by nature - one can never get past that when it comes to the very imagery it presents. Of course, Icons are not created to force an emotional response. When portraying historical scenes the faces didn't show emotions but instead portray virtues such as purity, patience in suffering or victory. - it was never emotion for its own sake. But emotions involved in response can never be escaped from Christian imagery.Gxg (G²);64772186 said:The moment one said that Christ could only be portrayed in one manner (i.e. claiming Christ could not be seen conquering demonic enemies via kicking or using a fist, etc.), there was already speculation promoted.....and that was discussed in light of where far more intensive descriptions of how Christ treated the demons in scripture were present - that cannot be escaped anymore than escaping where speculation is present when it comes to icons of Christ on the backs of demons with the imagery present in them - one knows already the real Christ doesn't literally look like what the icon presents nor do demons literally look like that. It's the same with the comic presentations - one man's presentation of Christ beating up a demon isn't a matter of saying it LITERALLY happened that way according to scripture/the Apostles. The same goes for the halos - I can't speak on Dragon Ball Z with saying energy glowing around a person like Christ would be bad and yet keep silent on halos and light outlines around Christ when how he was portrayed in the icons was with imagery used in the Greek/Roman and pagan cultures to portray their gods and goddesses.
....As noted before, in the era of the early church, the artistic portrayal of biblical characters, or iconography, served to teach biblical lessons and church history to the illiterate masses. But a council held in 753 formally condemned the veneration of icons by Christians and called for the removal of all images from the churches, public buildings and homes of the people. The basis of the position of the council was taken primarily from the biblical teaching that God is invisible, therefore visible, graven images are not to be made and adored by true believers - and Emperor Leo III (717741), the Isaurian, believed the only hope of converting Muslims and Jews was to abandon the use of icons. Tarasius, patriarch of Constantinople, presided over the first seven sessions, and the empress Irene led the final meeting of the council at Constantinople.
As another noted best:
The veneration of icons has a long and complicated history. It too is the fruit of mens gradual assimilation of the Churchs faith. The early Church did not know the icon in its modern, dogmatic significance. The beginning of Christian art the painting of the catacombs is of a symbolic, or as Professor V. V. Weidle has defined it, a "signitive" nature. It is not the portrayal of Christ, of the saints, or of the various events of sacred history, as on an icon, but the expression of certain ideas about Christ and the Church, first and foremost the expression of the sacramental experience of Baptism and the Eucharist, that is to say of the twofold "mystery" through which salvation is granted to him who has believed. "In art of a signitive kind not the interpretation of its subjects for how they are interpreted makes no difference to its aims but their selection and combination are important. It is not so much inclined to depict divinity as it is to portray the function of divinity. The Good Shepherd of the sarcophagi and the catacombs is not only not an image, he is not even a symbol of Christ; he is the visual signification of the idea that the Saviour saves, that He has come to save us, that we are saved by Him. Daniel in the lions den is likewise not a portrait of even the most conventional sort, but a symbol of the fact that Daniel was saved and that we have been saved like Daniel. This art cannot be called art in the real sense of the word. It does not represent and it does not express: it signifies, and it signifies that fiery core, that living sun of faith in the "mysteries" to which the martyrs and pastors of those centuries, the newly baptized pagans, the rite of their baptism, and the enemies of the Christian Church themselves all bear witness."
But, although it renounced art for the sake of something else, this painting of the catacombs actually proved to be a cause of the "rise of that new, medieval art, religious and Christian throughout, which gradually consolidated itself both in the east and in the west of the Empire. In order that it might arise, corporeal and mental forms and images had to become spiritual, a naturalistic art had to become transcendental. So as to come to life and be reborn, art was obliged to renounce itself and plunge, as though into a baptismal font, into the pure element of faith. It accepted "penitence for its life" and was washed "in the waters of everlasting life" that it might become "a new creature". (V. V. Weidle).
The icon is also a fruit of this "making new" of art, and its appearance in the Church is connected, of course, with the unveiling in the Churchs consciousness of the meaning of God-Manhood: the fullness of the Godhead which dwells is Christ corporeally. No one has ever seen God, but the Man Christ reveals Him in full. In Him, God becomes visible. But this means that He also becomes portrayable. An image of the Man Jesus is an image of God, because Christ is the God-Man. But, if the world itself and its matter can be sanctified by the grace of the Holy Spirit and, feeding our bodies, also feed our souls, or, more certainly, the "whole" man, in Gods full conception of him as an incarnate spirit; if the water of Baptism grants us forgiveness of sins; if the bread and wine of the Eucharist give us in Holy Communion the Body and Blood of Christ, then a portrayal of Christ the product of human art may also be filled with the grace of His presence and His power; may become not an "image" but also a spiritual reality. In the icon there is at once a further revelation of the profundity of the dogma of Chalcedon and the gift of a new dimension in human art, because Christ has given a new dimension to man himself.
Of course, in time things changed...and what was once seen as bad, it was eventually adapted to. Iconoclast persecution and the history behind how images were seen is rather complicated and has much to teach today...for there were Iconoclastic monks in Byzantine history - something that still surprises many when it comes to noting how bishops/monks actually supported the ban against any and all images of God ....a lot of it based on politics while other parts of it were based on the level of understanding others had when it came to graven images.....
Today, Others understand the concept of artwork - how it's never just art - and the different styles thereof. A Manga portrayal of Christ can be just as inspiring as seeing him on a Fresco in light of others coming to know the Lord...be it showing him in glorious array or showing him when he was tempted - or, for that matter, showing how it may have looked when He physically drove out ALL others selling in the Temple (John 2) in noting His Father's house was to be a house of prayer (as we don't know how he looked using the whip but what is known is that he was powerful enough to drive others OUT)..
The nature of comics..
[URL="http://osmar-shotgun.deviantart.com/art/THE-JESUS-VICTORY-209387044"]
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I am glad what was shared connected with you. I do think you'd be blessed by the Manga Bible - an excellent investment...
It is interesting to see the ways that many love video games and animated shows - and yet don't think highly of comics...
More than agree - some things take time to catch up on....
Actually, I'd say it's more a matter of not being enlightened - in the same way it is when folks diss Legend of Korra
Figured you'd be interested in this - as it's pretty amazing thus far what was present.
