Characteristics

[Notedstrangeperson]

Also, chimps and many other apes are omnivores, and their diets aren't actually as different as that of humans as you might think.

They are. There are plenty of other similarities between us and chimps, but diet is not a particularly good example.

EternalDragon: Was I right when I said you would accept evolution if we discovered a chimp-like creature with human habits, like weapons and clothes?

 

[PsychoSarah]

They are. There are plenty of other similarities between us and chimps, but diet is not a particularly good example.

EternalDragon: Was I right when I said you would accept evolution if we discovered a chimp-like creature with human habits, like weapons and clothes?

They eat fruits, roots, bugs (yes, humans eat bugs too, in many cultures they are a delicacy), occasionally small mammals and more rarely reptiles. Again humans eat those too.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

They eat fruits, roots, bugs (yes, humans eat bugs too, in many cultures they are a delicacy), occasionally small mammals and more rarely reptiles. Again humans eat those too.

True, but humans eat ... well, pretty much anything. Between humasn and apes, diet is not a particularly good comparison. Heck, even Australopithecines had diets very different from modern humans.

 

[PsychoSarah]

True, but humans eat ... well, pretty much anything. Between humasn and apes, diet is not a particularly good comparison. Heck, even Australopithecines had diets very different from modern humans.

Beyond cooking food, there really isn't that much of a difference. Especially if you look at the people who live as hunter gatherers.

 

[DogmaHunter]

And we both like bannanas so thats a wrap

Funny you should mention banana's.

Picture the delicious chiquita banana you buy at the store...
Now click this and watch what an actual banana REALLY looks like:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Inside_a_wild-type_banana.jpg

That nice banana you buy at the store?
Well... it's the product of evolutionary processes. The same processes that people here claim don't exist.
The only difference is the selection process.
Another great example is cabbage derived products. Like brocolli and brussel sprouts, who both descend from the same ancestral wild plant.

 

[EternalDragon]

Funny you should mention banana's.

Picture the delicious chiquita banana you buy at the store...
Now click this and watch what an actual banana REALLY looks like:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Inside_a_wild-type_banana.jpg

That nice banana you buy at the store?
Well... it's the product of evolutionary processes. The same processes that people here claim don't exist.
The only difference is the selection process.
Another great example is cabbage derived products. Like brocolli and brussel sprouts, who both descend from the same ancestral wild plant.

No one is claiming those processes don't exist. Now try changing a banana into an apple. It should be easily accomplished.

 

[selfinflikted]

Now try changing a banana into an apple. It should be easily accomplished.

That's magic - not evolution. But you know that.

 

[Loudmouth]

No one is claiming those processes don't exist. Now try changing a banana into an apple. It should be easily accomplished.

Species do not evolve into already existing species.

 

[Shemjaza]

I think ED has unwittingly hit on something possible. Wasn't the initial post about advanced chimps and not chimp ancestors evolving into humans?

Looking at the people in suits we have something with a very similar bone structure, but with a larger brain and upright... sounds well within the realm of possibility.

I don't think being smooth and hairless or losing the muzzle are necessary for intelligence.

However ED seems to think humans and other apes are radically different, it's all in the muzzle... but it turns out the fossils are here to help:

You can see how on these skulls the face is reforming and the muzzle is pulling back.

 

[USincognito]

I am asking why we don't resemble walking apes or walking primates, which we do not.

We do.

 

[USincognito]

You know, there's a bit of a different between the variation we see in finches and the variation between housecats and tigers. They're too completely different species. Genetically speaking, they're farther apart than humans are to apes.

Than humans are to our fellow apes.

 

[USincognito]

I am simply asking why we did not retain primate characteristics if we evolved.

We did.

 

[USincognito]

True, but humans eat ... well, pretty much anything. Between humasn and apes, diet is not a particularly good comparison. Heck, even Australopithecines had diets very different from modern humans.

That's because they hadn't invented microwave ovens and Hot Pockets[sup]TM[/sup].

 

[EternalDragon]

I think ED has unwittingly hit on something possible. Wasn't the initial post about advanced chimps and not chimp ancestors evolving into humans?

Looking at the people in suits we have something with a very similar bone structure, but with a larger brain and upright... sounds well within the realm of possibility.

I don't think being smooth and hairless or losing the muzzle are necessary for intelligence.

However ED seems to think humans and other apes are radically different, it's all in the muzzle... but it turns out the fossils are here to help:

You can see how on these skulls the face is reforming and the muzzle is pulling back.

Lining up skulls so they prove your theory is only evidence that you are lining up skulls so they prove your theory.

 

[USincognito]

Lining up skulls so they prove your theory is only evidence that you are lining up skulls so they prove your theory.

Handwave fail. I hope you didn't give yourself a black eye.

 

[Strathos]

To a gorilla, a chimpanzee probably looks just as different from their own kind as a human does.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Do you have downward facing nostrils?
Do you not have a prehensile tail?
Do you have 8 premolars?

Congrats. You are a catarrhine primate.

Do you have no tail?
Are you large for a primate?
Are you typically ground-dwelling?

Congrats. You are an ape.

 

[lasthero]

Something that occurred to me while I was at work, ED.

Okay, you seem to accept that finches are related, despite their different beaks. And you accept that tigers and housecats are related. And you can even accept that crocodile fish are related to tiktaalik, even though that's completely wrong, but for the sake of argument, we'll pretend it's not.

So you seem to be able to gauge whether two animals are related by comparing their anatomies. But you say, quite often, that similarities aren't evidence of relation. So if that's the case, then how do you determine relation between two animals?

 

[Strathos]

Are you typically ground-dwelling?

I live in a 14th story apartment

 

[46AND2]

Something that occurred to me while I was at work, ED.

Okay, you seem to accept that finches are related, despite their different beaks. And you accept that tigers and housecats are related. And you can even accept that crocodile fish are related to tiktaalik, even though that's completely wrong, but for the sake of argument, we'll pretend it's not.

So you seem to be able to gauge whether two animals are related by comparing their anatomies. But you say, quite often, that similarities aren't evidence of relation. So if that's the case, then how do you determine relation between two animals?

Classic creationist double standard.

The answer is simple, of course. If they are the same kind, similarities are evidence of relation. If they are different kinds, the similarities cannot be used as evidence.