The Lord's day.

[LarryP2]

duplicate

 

[LarryP2]

What would happen if anyone here called your denomination a cult? Are you going against site rules in doing so? I see "cultism" of sorts in all denominations. If....the SDA WERE a non-Christian cult then what are they doing posting in here?

On the other hand, SDA's constantly claim that Christians are motivated by the desire for murder, theft and lying; that's the reason Christians say the Ten Commandments are no longer in effect.

Correct?

 

[Elder 111]

And we are supposed to give ANY credibility to your assertion, because.......

You are the greatest Bible scholar and historian?

Can I buy the commentary that you have written to decide for myself?

I will do better than that, I will give you the one that God has written.
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, That makes it the Lord's day.
Jesus blessed sanctified and made Holy the Sabbath, That makes it the Lord's special day.
Now would you trade what God has stated to be Himself for what men said and want? Would place then above God?

 

[Elder 111]

LarryP2,

re: "...EVERY LEGITIMATE COMMENTARY WRITER I CAN FIND SAYS IT IS SUNDAY, THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK."


No one is disagreeing that the majority say that. It's just that there is no scripture that says that.

What makes them legitimate?
Mat 7:
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
According to Jesus the majority are in the wrong!
O Just Love the bible, all that seek truth and the right way will find it there.
No wander Jesus pleaded over and over again.
"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear". Some just will not. Judas was a christian too.

 

[Elder 111]

All it would have taken is opening the context two verses preceding or one verse following, and you would have seen that God's rest isn't the Sabbath. His rest is noted as "that rest" those who had the Sabbath hadn't attained.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.​

A promise of God's rest remained to be attained during the tenure of the Sabbath, as v.4:1 opens the chapter with. That promise is another day, singular in the author's presentation, and not cyclical as the Sabbath was.

What rest did God rest?

 

[Elder 111]

Hmmm! It does seem as though the site rules are against facts and truth. It really must hurt to be exposed. Only evil loves cover. The truth loves the bright sun.

Is it OK if I call you a cult then?

 

[By Faith Alone]

On the other hand, SDA's constantly claim that Christians are motivated by the desire for murder, theft and lying; that's the reason Christians say the Ten Commandments are no longer in effect.

Correct?

Are you painting with a wide brush? I will give an example. The catholic church think they have the only truth and do not need to study. Interpretation is up to the laity. I KNOW this is a fact and you do too.

I have seen, on this board, a few catholics that would undoubtedly join in an inquisition if it were possible today. Do I say ALL catholics? No. I cannot and do not. My aunt was a catholic and that would have been the furthest thing from her mind.

Do you think Elder 111 thinks that way? If you do I would like to see evidence of such. What has he said in the past that makes you think so?

 

[VictorC]

All it would have taken is opening the context two verses preceding or one verse following, and you would have seen that God's rest isn't the Sabbath. His rest is noted as "that rest" those who had the Sabbath hadn't attained.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.​

A promise of God's rest remained to be attained during the tenure of the Sabbath, as v.4:1 opens the chapter with. That promise is another day, singular in the author's presentation, and not cyclical as the Sabbath was.

What rest did God rest?

You admitted that Hebrews 4:10 has no relevance to the periodic Sabbath. Beyond that, your rhetorical question admits that you have no idea what God's rest is.

 

[VictorC]

I will do better than that, I will give you the one that God has written.
Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, That makes it the Lord's day.
Jesus blessed sanctified and made Holy the Sabbath, That makes it the Lord's special day.
Now would you trade what God has stated to be Himself for what men said and want? Would place then above God?

Job 1:21
The Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away;
Blessed be the name of the Lord.​

After all, Jesus is the same Lord who took it away according to Hebrews 10:9.
Living in the old covenant is sheer vanity, and incompatible with Christianity.

 

[VictorC]

I would say Unorthodox.......

I have concluded Adventism to be a full-blown cult, like its sister the Jehovah's Witnesses, and its children the Branch Davidians, Shepherd's Rod, and SDR organizations. It does not comply with the Nicene Creed where it determines Jesus to be our Saviour, plus nothing else. Look at the soteriology of Adventist members:

Salvation is by Jesus and His Ten commandments, if you have a problem with that take up with Jesus Himself.

Now that is stupid. Or simply from Hell.
Will someone please explain to me, how can we be judge by the laws of the Ten commandments and still it has no jurisdiction over us?

The Sabbath is the test. The tree in the mist of the Garden. That person have to decide on.

Need I quote the 'continuing source of truth' codified in the SDA Fundamental Beliefs?

It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." 1 Samuel 2:30. {6T 356.4}

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

No one who disregards the fourth commandment, after becoming enlightened in regard to the claims of the Sabbath, can be held guiltless in the sight of God. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 14}

All will be judged according to the light that has shone upon them. If they have light upon the Sabbath, they cannot be saved in rejecting that light.{HS 234.3}

As persons become convinced from the Scriptures that the claims of the fourth commandment are still binding, the question is often raised, Is it necessary in order to secure salvation that we keep the Sabbath? This is a question of grave importance. If the light has shone from the word of God, if the message has been presented to men, as it was to Pharaoh, and they refuse to heed that message, if they reject the light, they refuse to obey God, and cannot be saved in their disobedience. {RH, January 5, 1886 par. 2}

Christ does not lessen the claims of the law. In unmistakable language He presents obedience to it as the condition of eternal life—the same condition that was required of Adam before his Fall. The Lord expects no less of the soul now than He expected of man in Paradise, perfect obedience, unblemished righteousness. The requirement under the covenant of grace is just as broad as the requirement made in Eden—harmony with God’s law, which is holy, just, and good. (Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 391)
​

I know LLOJ means well, but "unorthodox" is just too far from the reality to consider. There is no recognition of God's redemption to be found within Adventism.

 

[from scratch]

Is it OK if I call you a cult then?

Are you saying that its not true and I 've made up a story? Walter Martin discusses the SDA movement in the cult section of his book. I've yet to see any one refute that or those facts.

 

[from scratch]

Are there any other denominations you have in mind? Or are you just picking and choosing?

Whatzsuhmatta? Why do you have a problem with me responding to a post? Why are you defending them as though you're one?

 

[from scratch]

LarryP2,

re: "...are you implying that all of those commentary writers are just lying?"


No, I imagine that the majority of them think that they are speaking the truth. All I'm trying to say is that if the supreme being intends for the first day of the week to be referred to as the Lord's Day, that scripture is silent about it.

IOW you're saying they're lying. Ya gotta cover your tracks better than that.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Our present creation is formed on a platform to accomplish the purpose of the ages to the end that God will be all in all again as seen in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.

Our present creation is destined to vanish away and ushers in a new heaven and earth. The new heaven and earth will compliment that of Genesis 1:1 when that day arrives.

Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

 

[from scratch]

What saith....SCRIPTURES!?

Acts 17:11 These (Bereans) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and ...searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Great advice. You should heed it.

 

[from scratch]

LarryP2,

re: "And we are supposed to give ANY credibility to your assertion..."


I don't know why not. I asserted that I imagine that the majority of commentary writers think that they are speaking the truth. Why would you think that my comment is not credible?

We surely don't know.

 

[VictorC]

Are you saying that its not true and I 've made up a story? Walter Martin discusses the SDA movement in the cult section of his book. I've yet to see any one refute that or those facts.

Recycled material relevant to your post:

Dr. Martin and Dr. Barnhouse concluded their interviews with GC officials with two major complaints, revolving around Ellen White's status as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth" (SDA FB #18), and the Investigative Judgment (SDA FB #24). They concluded that the SDA church needed to drop these from their Fundamental Beliefs, consistent with their embracing Questions on Doctrine that Dr. Martin preferred to accept as representative of Adventist doctrine over their other writings.

Before the GC discussions and the publication of Kingdom of the Cults, Dr. Walter Martin's earlier book The Rise of the Cults classified the SDA church as a cult. Based on QoD, he chose to remove that classification and codify that conclusion in Kingdom of the Cults.

His reliance on QoD as the sole determinant for that reclassification becomes more clear in his comments made in 1983:

Kingdom of the Cults’ is in print as a standard textbook and is used all over the world. It is now on its 37th printing, coming up for revision and expansion; and in there is a chapter on Adventism, which I put in deliberately. The book will be a classic for years. The chapters has got to be in there spelling out that Adventists are not a cult, because they are already classified that way. What better place to deal with it than in a classic book? Anthony Hoekema, came after me with a hammer and tongs; he is a friend of mine. And M.R. De Haan came after me, among other people because of the position I took. I haven't recanted my position, but if the Seventh-day Adventist denomination will not back up its answers with actions and put Questions on Doctrine back in print - and, in effect, take a strong stand against people in [the SDA] denomination who are very vocal and powerful group and who very well can bring the judgment of God on up - then they're in real trouble that I can't help them out of; and nobody else can either.

Now, the result today is that QoD isn't accepted and does not reflect Adventist doctrine. I just looked up the list of SDA Fundamental Beliefs on their official website; #18 still claims Ellen White to be "the Lord's messenger", and #24 still claims that Jesus "entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry" in 1844. The Adventist publication of Questions on Doctrine has been relegated to the trash, and Dr. Martin noted this in 1983 in the same interview as above:

After 150,000 copies, Questions on Doctrine was permitted to go out of print.... I believe it was deliberately removed by people who felt that it was a thorn in their theological flesh.” Martin also added, “You have to understand that 30 years ago there was a great confusion. As a matter of fact, today is still in many areas of Adventism. They had strains of Arian Christology; there were men in positions of authority who denied the deity of Christ and the Trinity. For all I know, some of them may still be there today. There were people who were absolute legalists, who believed that any person who kept Sunday - even in good conscience before God - right at that moment had the mark of the beast. And they were printing and distributing it under the official Adventist logos.

There has been no change in Adventism, as Dr. Walter Martin thought possible in 1965. It is still properly classified as a cult, as he originally determined in his book The Rise of the Cults.

 

[from scratch]

What would happen if anyone here called your denomination a cult? Are you going against site rules in doing so? I see "cultism" of sorts in all denominations. If....the SDA WERE a non-Christian cult then what are they doing posting in here?

I am not defending their doctrine at all.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Bull!!!

 

[from scratch]

Our present creation is formed on a platform to accomplish the purpose of the ages to the end that God will be all in all again as seen in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.

Our present creation is destined to vanish away and ushers in a new heaven and earth. The new heaven and earth will compliment that of Genesis 1:1 when that day arrives.

Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

IOW you're saying the New Covenant isn't currently in place contrary to God's (Jesus) own words.

Congratulations are in order here as you know something Jesus doesn't.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Whatzsuhmatta? Why do you have a problem with me responding to a post? Why are you defending them as though you're one?

Just asked a question. I am defending no one and I am not one. Just wondering if the scales are equally balanced. You see. I have not really read up on "adventism" to the extent others have. The reason I know about catholics is that they are "in your face" most of the time and crowing and thumping the chest about being...THE...church. THAT is why I learned about catholicism many years ago.

I do understand "adventism" teaches Sunday worship is a mark of the beast. Pretty far off base on that one though.

If "adventism" is as is declared...contrary to the creed...why are they allowed in a Christian forum? Something a half a bubble out of plumb on that one.