The order of fossils in the geological column

[janxharris]

That's great that you envision that to be the way the flood happens. Unfortunately it still ignores everything the Bible says about the circumstances of the Flood and ignores everything that physics says about the mechanisms you propose to cause the Flood to happen.

For example, you ignore the direct, observed evidence I gave of what happened when a small section of two continental plates moved together ~20ft horizontally and 10ft vertically. As a result 1600+ people in the vicinity died and 24 hours later a 35ft high tsunami hit Japan, 10,000 miles away and killed another 138.

Multiply that by a factor of about a million and you can see that the Flood model you are proposing is impossible.

So are you suggesting that the Ark would not have survived such an onslaught?

 

[Armoured]

I still want to know how the koalas got to Australia after they got of the Ark. Come up with a logically consistent explanation for that's also biblically consistent, I'll accept YEC as correct and evolution as false here and now.

 

[Simmeh]

So are you suggesting that the Ark would not have survived such an onslaught?

The ark, if built to the dimensions in the Bible, likely would not have survived even what normally passes as a rough day at sea, let alone a tsunami.

Bill Nye also explained this during his recent debate with Ken Ham. I don't have the privileges to post video links yet, so someone else will have to link it.

 

[dad]

The ark, if built to the dimensions in the Bible, likely would not have survived even what normally passes as a rough day at sea, let alone a tsunami.
...

How would we know what sort of stabilization system may have been on the ark?? You are guessing. Nye knows squat.

 

[janxharris]

The ark, if built to the dimensions in the Bible, likely would not have survived even what normally passes as a rough day at sea, let alone a tsunami.

Bill Nye also explained this during his recent debate with Ken Ham. I don't have the privileges to post video links yet, so someone else will have to link it.

Did you mean this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6kgvhG3AkI ?

 

[AV1611VET]

Hey, this thread reminds me... I've seen plenty of Flood apologists claim there have been fossils found on top of Mount Everest, can anyone actually tell me if this is true? Yes, I know all about geological uplift and all, I'm just curious if this oft repeated factoid has any basis?

Clam fossils have been found atop Mt. Everest.

 

[AV1611VET]

I still want to know how the koalas got to Australia after they got of the Ark.

Assuming they existed then, they got to Australia the same way they came from Australia to the Ark.

Probably by teleportation.

Come up with a logically consistent explanation for that's also biblically consistent, I'll accept YEC as correct and evolution as false here and now.

I don't believe in YEC, I believe in Embedded Age, but for the record, here's your "Biblical consistency":

Acts 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Acts 8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

 

[AV1611VET]

The ark, if built to the dimensions in the Bible, likely would not have survived even what normally passes as a rough day at sea, let alone a tsunami.

How long, in your opinion, was it before Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego burned up in the fiery furnace?

 

[Dizredux]

Hey, this thread reminds me... I've seen plenty of Flood apologists claim there have been fossils found on top of Mount Everest, can anyone actually tell me if this is true? Yes, I know all about geological uplift and all, I'm just curious if this oft repeated factoid has any basis?

They are found *in* the rocks on top. Only a few that have broken loose are on the mountain. As I understand it the summit of the Mt Everest is at least in part limestone moved there by tectonic uplift. That would easily explain the presence of the shells.

Dizredux

 

[Armoured]

They are found *in* the rocks on top. Only a few that have broken loose are on the mountain. As I understand it the summit of the Mt Everest is at least in part limestone moved there by tectonic uplift. That would easily explain the presence of the shells.

Dizredux

But so there are actually fossils there? Interesting, thanks

 

[Dizredux]

But so there are actually fossils there? Interesting, thanks

As I understand it. I am not a geologist but I confirmed this in several reliable places.

Dizredux

 

[Armoured]

Assuming they existed then, they got to Australia the same way they came from Australia to the Ark.

Probably by teleportation.

...so you think they were in Australia before the flood, too? Sure, why not?

 

[Ruthie24]

Does the order of the fossils found, from lowest to highest, equate to what Darwinists (or Neo-Darwinists if preferred) would expect to find. Can they therefore say that the order of fossils that we would expect to find from the Noachian flood is inconsistent with the reality?

I've found that a lot of geological and archeological studies have been suppressed due to agendas by the mainstream scientific world that would go against the commonly held beliefs. Scientists who present contradictory findings have actually been threatened and lost their 'papers' or status in the community. So, I highly suspect any and all studies until everything is investigated and backed up including the scientists themselves AND their funding sources.

 

[Armoured]

I've found that a lot of geological and archeological studies have been suppressed due to agendas by the mainstream scientific world that would go against the commonly held beliefs. Scientists who present contradictory findings have actually been threatened and lost their 'papers' or status in the community. So, I highly suspect any and all studies until everything is investigated and backed up including the scientists themselves AND their funding sources.

If they've been suppressed how did you find them?

 

[Simmeh]

How would we know what sort of stabilization system may have been on the ark?? You are guessing. Nye knows squat.

No, you're right. I don't know what sort of stabilization systems that may have been present in your ark. All we have is the Bible's word for it, and all the Bible says is that it is made of gopher wood and is 137m long. But even a simple glance at the story reveals how unbelievable it is.

137m is the same length as the largest wooden ship ever constructed in recorded history, the Wyoming - that is, if you include her foremast. The actual structure of the Wyoming was 110m on deck and 100m between the furthest uprights. The Wyoming was so large and her material of construction was so flexible that she constantly sprang leaks as she was twisted by the waves, despite having steel braces on her inside, and the leaks were so great that her steam-powered pumps were unable to keep up. She eventually succumbed to a storm, going down with all hands.

We could assume that this 'gopher wood' (which is either fictional, mistranslated, or a pre-Noachian oddity) has mechanical properties that are greater than steel, thus giving the ark the structural ability to at least reach the size of a solid modern day ship without these structural problems. But why would we assume that? We could just as easily assume that there were unobtainium braces holding the ship together, or that Noah had access to nuclear powered bilge pumps, or that Noah and his sons were such good shipwrights that they had some sort of brilliant technique that allowed them to build a wooden ship far better than the shipwrights of the modern era (and then never passed those secrets on to anyone).

The problem with those assumptions is just that: they are assumptions. All we have is what we know from the Bible, and it says that the ark is a boat made of wood and pitch that is larger than the largest wooden ship we have on record, and we know what happened to that ship. We can therefore evaluate the story on those merits and draw a conclusion. Until further proof of the ark is brought forth, this is all we can do.

And all this still hasn't gotten around to the comment that sparked this: that the storm being proposed by OldWiseGuy would be far greater than the storm that sunk the Wyoming. If the largest wooden ship ever, built using modern technologies with all the knowledge of the greatest shipwrights of the era using additional materials and technologies that Noah would not have had was sunk by a late-winter storm, how much of a chance would an ancient boat have had in a tsunami?

Did you mean this:
snip ?

That would be the video of the full debate, yes. There is a much shorter clip on Youtube of Nye just doing his bit about the ark.

How long, in your opinion, was it before Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego burned up in the fiery furnace?

This is relevant because...?

 

[TLK Valentine]

How long, in your opinion, was it before Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego burned up in the fiery furnace?

For as long as Sherlock Holmes survived the bottom of Reichenbach Falls.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I keep trying to get you to understand that for the sea floor to rise far enough to spill all the ocean water onto the continents, AND then sink back down again to give the water somewhere to go at the end of the flood, is not going to be a gentle/gradual rise and fall. For the Challenger Deep area to get to that point, it will have to rise at a rate of 240 feet PER DAY. Go outside and find the biggest mountain you can and imagine that mountain growing at 240 feet per day. That is not going to be a slow gradual rise.

Gradual to the continental plates is 2-3 cm per year. 240 feet per day is not gradual, it is a cataclysm.

My model has the sea floor rising uniformly over a vast area, not flattening out as you suggest. The flood story suggests a gradual flood, thus a gradual rise in the sea floor. I suggest viewing some incoming tide video's on u-tube. They provide a good picture of how the flood came in.

For the third time now, there isn't enough water on the planet to cover the mountains of Ararat. If the earth was perfectly smooth, there is only enough water to raise the sea level ~8,600 feet. Mt Ararat itself is nearly twice that tall and many other mountains in the area are taller than that as well.

My model doesn't have the water distributed evenly over the earth. The sea floors would rise enough to cover those mountains with water. The sinking of the continents would help in this. A study of glacial rebound reveals how flexible the earth's crust actually is.

 

[AV1611VET]

The ark, if built to the dimensions in the Bible, likely would not have survived even what normally passes as a rough day at sea, let alone a tsunami.

How long, in your opinion, was it before Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego burned up in the fiery furnace?

This is relevant because...?

Just as God protected the three men in the fire ...

Daniel 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.
Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

... God could have protected Noah and his family the same way.

Some believe ... as do I ... there were nine people on the Ark.

 

[[serious]]

Clam fossils have been found atop Mt. Everest.

Exactly.

Do clams run away from flood waters? Do they swim up there?

Nope, they sink to the bottom. Plates then move slowly lifting and subducting regions creating new mountains out of what was once sea floor.

 

[Ruthie24]

If they've been suppressed how did you find them?

There's a really good book called Forbidden Archeology by Michael Cremo. Also books by Dr. Robert M. Schoch, Ph.D "Forgotten Civilization: The Role of Solar Outbursts in Our Past and Future."

I am not a scholar in this field but I have found there are highly questionable finds that have been suppressed in archeology etc. These books will go more into detail for you than I can give in one post.