Why dont SDA's and Sabbath keepers also keep the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 too???

[BobRyan]

Your use and meaning of this departs from the context of Moody.

As usual - you make the wild accusation and then follow with no facts, no evidence, not shred of support -- the accusation alone appears to satisfy your method and tactic.


By contrast here is what Moody actually said showing all 7 points mentioned. #722

Here is a great example of that 7 point list coming up in D.L.Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments -

============================

Case in point -- Here is what D.L. Moody actually said --

Here is an example of one of the "bend the commandment" but do not get rid of it - arguments.

=============================== D.L. Moody sermon on the TEN Commandments

Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was[/FONT][FONT=&quot]- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes; if you give up the church the home goes; and if the home goes the nation goes. That is the direction in which we are traveling.

The church of God is losing its power on account of so many people giving up the Sabbath, and using it to promote selfishness. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
HOW TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]"Sabbath" means "rest," and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man. He blessed it and hallowed it. Remember the rest-day to keep it holy.[/FONT]

================== end quote

Your post presents all the facts needed,

Indeed - it is called a verbatim quote.

Sadly that leaves you with a factless accusation.

Your only response is to whine that evidence is provided instead of just letting your fact-challenged accusation sit by itself as if the "mere accusation alone" is sufficient to establish your fiction as fact.

Who goes for that??? (you make it appear that "you do" but I doubt that even you would go for it.)

in Christ,

Bob

 

[LarryP2]

Indeed - it is called a verbatim quote.

Sadly that leaves you with a factless accusation.

Your only response is to whine that evidence is provided instead of just letting your fact-challenged accusation sit by itself as if the "mere accusation alone" is sufficient to establish your fiction as fact.

Who goes for that??? (you make it appear that "you do" but I doubt that even you would go for it.)

in Christ,

Bob

Okay then, lets get some questions out of the way, how about it? Once I get some answers on the facts that you say you want to discuss, then we can have a solid basis for some agreement on some critical facts. I have helpfully provided some "Yes" and "No" answers, because I know how you want to wiggle your way out of the quotes and avoid the extremely distressing implications. .So here goes:

Were the Protestant Ministers and the Catholic Catechism that you frequently cite the Source for your Church’s doctrine of the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO

Was Ellen G. White the source for your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine? ________YES___________NO

Is this an accurate quote that describes Ellen G. White’s views on the Sabbath?: “The holy Sabbath looked glorious- a halo of glory was all around it." ________YES___________NO

Did this quote have More or Less influence on your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine than the Protestant Ministers and other sources that you Cite? ___________MORE_____________LESS

Is this an accurate quote that describes Ellen G. White’s views on the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO.
“I saw the Ten Commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were Four and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God's holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious[bless and do not curse] a halo of glory was all around it."

Did this quote have More or Less influence on your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine than the Protestant Ministers and other sources that you Cite? ___________MORE_____________LESS

 

[from scratch]

Indeed - it is called a verbatim quote.

Sadly that leaves you with a factless accusation.

Your only response is to whine that evidence is provided instead of just letting your fact-challenged accusation sit by itself as if the "mere accusation alone" is sufficient to establish your fiction as fact.

Who goes for that??? (you make it appear that "you do" but I doubt that even you would go for it.)

in Christ,

Bob

Naw ya should jus read what ya post. I did.

 

[BobRyan]

Were the Protestant Ministers and the Catholic Catechism that you frequently cite the Source for your Church’s doctrine of the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO

No - they simply prove that your own arguments against the TEN Commandments are flawed even by pro-Sunday source standards.

This part is incredibly obvious - so it is driving you to derail the subject.

that is the "easy part".

Was Ellen G. White the source for your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine? ________YES___________NO

No - I have quoted only bible sources (And the BCF and WCF and other pro-Sunday sources obviously do not quote Ellen White to argue the Bible point that the 4th commandment is still applicable to the saints).

She herself was slow to accept this Bible doctrine as it was first presented by fellow Adventists.

Many actual SDAs know that - as it turns out. Many actual SDAs know that - as it turns out.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Naw ya should jus read what ya post. I did.

And I read what you and Larry posted - finding this --

1. First Larry opens with classic "factless Larry rant" which must be deleted for the sake of the reader.

2. Then he unwittingly makes my case for point 7 (of the 7 point list #2 ) for pro-Sunday sources BCF and WCF. #[FONT=&quot]182[/FONT]

3. Then he makes the case for all 7 of those points by pointing us to RCC sources #[FONT=&quot]186[/FONT] as if he had never read the RCC position on this subject.

4. Then FromScratch argues that a verbatim quote from D.L. Moody's major point on the 4th commandment is "misleading" simply because Moody is making all 7 of the points in my list. #[FONT=&quot]741[/FONT]

5. Even ProgMonk cannot make the case stick that the term "Sabbath" in the NT does not apply to "week-day-1" #[FONT=&quot]184[/FONT]

then they suppose that by repeating these flawed tactics "often" it will befuddle someone who is an objective Bible student.

Who goes for such tactics?.

 

[LarryP2]

And I read what you and Larry posted - finding this --

1. First Larry opens with classic "factless Larry rant" which must be deleted for the sake of the reader.

2. Then he unwittingly makes my case for point 7 (of the 7 point list #2 ) for pro-Sunday sources BCF and WCF. #[FONT=&quot]182[/FONT]

3. Then he makes the case for all 7 of those points by pointing us to RCC sources #[FONT=&quot]186[/FONT] as if he had never read the RCC position on this subject.

4. Then FromScratch argues that a verbatim quote from D.L. Moody's major point on the 4th commandment is "misleading" simply because Moody is making all 7 of the points in my list. #[FONT=&quot]741[/FONT]

5. Even ProgMonk cannot make the case stick that the term "Sabbath" in the NT does not apply to "week-day-1" #[FONT=&quot]184[/FONT]

then they suppose that by repeating these flawed tactics "often" it will befuddle someone who is an objective Bible student.

Who goes for such tactics?.

My aren't you being extremely slippery and and even more deceptive than normal today, which is saying something! You have made worship of the 4th Commandment, blatantly in Opposition Christianity's focus on the Resurrection, the centerpiece of your modern-day anti-Christian Ebionite heresy. You need to honestly disclose and discuss your REAL sources! You need to admit or deny that these insane quotes are accurate from your bonkers nuts founding Prophet.

I will post the questions again, and let's see if we can get some answers here....

Were the Protestant Ministers and the Catholic Catechism that you frequently cite the Source for your Church’s doctrine of the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO

Was Ellen G. White the source for your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine? ________YES___________NO

Is this an accurate quote that describes Ellen G. White’s views on the Sabbath?: “The holy Sabbath looked glorious- a halo of glory was all around it." ________YES___________NO

Did this quote have More or Less influence on your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine than the Protestant Ministers and other sources that you Cite? ___________MORE_____________LESS

Is this an accurate quote that describes Ellen G. White’s views on the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO.
“I saw the Ten Commandments written on them with the finger of God. On one table were Four and on the other six. The four on the first table shone brighter than the other six. But the fourth, the Sabbath commandment, shone above them all; for the Sabbath was set apart to be kept in honor of God's holy name. The holy Sabbath looked glorious[bless and do not curse] a halo of glory was all around it."

Did this quote have More or Less influence on your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine than the Protestant Ministers and other sources that you Cite? ___________MORE_____________

Its just remarkable and amazing that such anti-Christian heresy coupled with so much willful deception is allowed on a Christian site. One of the things I think we CAN agree on is that NONE of the alleged "sources" for your 4th Commandment worship were available to, or quoted by your nutso founding Prophet. I did some searches last night, and I can find NOTHING that indicates that ANY of your "sources" had the slightest effect whatsoever on your Church's foundation of 4th Commandment worship, and outright rejection and emphatic rejection of the Resurrection. You deceptively-use respectable Christian sources to deceitfully disguise the guts of your recruiting effort. You "sink the hook" in using respectable Christians, and the insanity of the Investigative Judgment, Salvation by Sabbath Keeping and Vegetarianism and the Insane Prophet are disclosed later, right?

 

[VictorC]

then they suppose that by repeating these flawed tactics "often" it will befuddle someone who is an objective Bible student.

Who goes for such tactics?.

You do. All of these extra-Biblical quotes, now shown to be inherently self-contradictory, have been presented in lieu of the Bible. They illustrate your continued effort to avoid the Bible.

 

[BobRyan]

Okay then, lets get some questions out of the way,

...

Were the Protestant Ministers and the Catholic Catechism that you frequently cite the Source for your Church’s doctrine of the Sabbath? ________YES___________NO

No - they simply prove that your own arguments against the TEN Commandments are flawed even by pro-Sunday source standards.

This part is incredibly obvious - so it is driving you to derail the subject.

that is the "easy part".

Was Ellen G. White the source for your Church’s Sabbath Doctrine? ________YES___________NO

No - I have quoted only bible sources (And the BCF and WCF and other pro-Sunday sources obviously do not quote Ellen White to argue the Bible point that the 4th commandment is still applicable to the saints).

She herself was slow to accept this Bible doctrine as it was first presented by fellow Adventists. Many actual SDAs know that - as it turns out.

My aren't you being particularly slippery ...<factless rant deleted here to spare the readers>

Whereupon you repeat the questions while ignoring the answers.

As if circling back to quote you - is the best response you have to the answers given. Be that as it may - it does not work in normal conversation.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

And I read what you and Larry posted - finding this --

1. First Larry opens with classic "factless Larry rant" which must be deleted for the sake of the reader.

2. Then he unwittingly makes my case for point 7 (of the 7 point list #2 ) for pro-Sunday sources BCF and WCF. #[FONT=&quot]182[/FONT]

3. Then he makes the case for all 7 of those points by pointing us to RCC sources #[FONT=&quot]186[/FONT] as if he had never read the RCC position on this subject.

4. Then FromScratch argues that a verbatim quote from D.L. Moody's major point on the 4th commandment is "misleading" simply because Moody is making all 7 of the points in my list. #[FONT=&quot]741[/FONT]

5. Even ProgMonk cannot make the case stick that the term "Sabbath" in the NT does not apply to "week-day-1" #[FONT=&quot]184[/FONT]

then they suppose that by repeating these flawed tactics "often" it will befuddle someone who is an objective Bible student.

Who goes for such tactics?.

Really?? no answer for that one??

 

[LarryP2]

Just to lighten things up a bit, you ought to turn to an interesting competition where the "winner" is the one who can come up with the most repulsive and insane quote of Ellen White's. And I vote we should all have some sympathy for BobRyan and his valiant efforts to skillfully dodge and deflect away any association with this incredibly vile, dreadful, deplorable, despicable and obviously-insane woman. And how he tries to blame the entire aberrant and poisonous Seventh Day Adventist Sabbath Doctrine onto the Bible, an unsuspecting Seventh Day Baptist woman, various Protestant Ministers, and Catholic sources.

The most stomach-churning and incredibly-vile statement was one where she advised a child-molesting Preacher who committed outrageous acts of forcible sodomy on a very young girl to "keep it quiet." And condemned the girl for cooperating in the experience. This taken verbatim out of Testimonies on Sexual Behavior, p. 68:

"Any youth who would submit her body to be handled by a man is in no way fit for the kingdom of heaven."

Additionally, quite possibly the most vile quote in religious history, Ellen White here denounces the girl in even more stringent terms:

"If I were forced to choose whether these children should be exposed to these temptations, educated in these evil practices, or be cut down by death, I would say, Let them die in their innocency."

And here is her advise to the Molesting Preacher to just energetically sweep the whole incident under the rug:

"You ask me if you shall make a public confession. I say, No. Do not dishonor the Master by making public the fact that one ministering in the Word could be guilty of such sin as you have committed. It would be a disgrace to the ministry. Do not give publicity to this matter by any means. It would do injustice to the whole cause of God. It would create impure thoughts in the minds of many even to hear these things repeated. Defile not the lips even by communicating this to your wife, to make her ashamed and bow her head in sorrow."
Most repulsive Ellen White quote? - Atheist Nexus

Of course, as everyone already knows, Ellen White is the certifiably-insane source of Adventism's horrifying and anti-Christian Sabbath Doctrine.

It might just be easier to admit it.

 

[BobRyan]

Naw ya should jus read what ya post. I did.

And I read what you and Larry posted - finding this --

1. First Larry opens with classic "factless Larry rant" which must be deleted for the sake of the reader.

2. Then he unwittingly makes my case for point 7 (of the 7 point list #2 ) for pro-Sunday sources BCF and WCF. #[FONT=&quot]182[/FONT]

3. Then he makes the case for all 7 of those points by pointing us to RCC sources #[FONT=&quot]186[/FONT] as if he had never read the RCC position on this subject.

4. Then FromScratch argues that a verbatim quote from D.L. Moody's major point on the 4th commandment is "misleading" simply because Moody is making all 7 of the points in my list. #[FONT=&quot]741[/FONT]

5. Even ProgMonk cannot make the case stick that the term "Sabbath" in the NT does not apply to "week-day-1" #[FONT=&quot]184[/FONT]

then they suppose that by repeating these flawed tactics "often" it will befuddle someone who is an objective Bible student.

Who goes for such tactics?.

You do. All of these extra-Biblical quotes, now shown to be inherently self-contradictory, have been presented in lieu of the Bible.

In lieu of the Bible proving that even your own pro-Sunday sources see the flaws in your arguments?

Really? That is the substance of your response?

Why not raise a point?

Or are you simply trying to say that you know that the pro-sunday sources listed also debunk your speculative ideas - but you would also like to have one of those ideas confronted "once again" - by the scripture that debunks your claims against Gen 2:3 and Ex 20:11 and Mark 2:27 and Isaiah 66:23?


in Christ,

Bob

 

[VictorC]

In lieu of the Bible proving that even your own pro-Sunday sources see the flaws in your arguments?

Really? That is the substance of your response?

Why not raise a point?

In case the obvious eludes you, a "Bible student" isn't going to accept self-contradictory sources outside the canon of Scripture that can't be reconciled with Scripture. Had you followed your "tactics" accusation, you would have seen that this is what you're doing. And then you wonder why the "Bible student" rejects your posts.

Or are you simply trying to say that you know that the pro-sunday sources listed also debunk your speculative ideas - but you would also like to have one of those ideas confronted "once again" - by the scripture that debunks your claims against Gen 2:3 and Ex 20:11 and Mark 2:27 and Isaiah 66:23?


in Christ,

Bob

I see. You consider Scripture to be "speculative", hence your need to argue against it. That's the same basis for Ellen White insisting that "And while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them is a great mistake."

 

[LarryP2]

I see. You consider Scripture to be "speculative", hence your need to argue against it. That's the same basis for Ellen White insisting that "And while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them is a great mistake."

Actually you left out some of the best parts of the anti-Christian quote:

"And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God."

In other words, the Bible should not be used to contradict the "demonstration of the Holy Spirit'""past messages." Don't let the Bible contradict Ellen White! See, the Bible automatically loses this fight!
EGW on Ballenger

And here's another admonishment to avoid the Bible if it contradicts her "visions:"

"No after suppositions, contrary to the light God has given are to be entertained. Men will arise with interpretations of Scripture which are to them truth, but which are not truth. The truth for this time, God has given us as a foundation for our faith. He Himself has taught us what is truth. One will arise and still another with new light which contradicts the light that God has given under the demonstration of His Holy Spirit.
Ellen G. White Writings

And as if the two prior quotes removes any ambiguity, here's another:

"We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories."
Ellen G. White Writings

Is it any wonder that Sabbath Spammers post the most arrant nonsense imaginable?

 

[VictorC]

Actually you left out some of the best parts of the anti-Christian quote:

"And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God."

In other words, the Bible should not be used to contradict the "demonstration of the Holy Spirit'""past messages." Don't let the Bible contradict Ellen White! See, the Bible automatically loses this fight!
EGW on Ballenger

And here's another admonishment to avoid the Bible if it contradicts here "visions:"

"No after suppositions, contrary to the light God has given are to be entertained. Men will arise with interpretations of Scripture which are to them truth, but which are not truth. The truth for this time, God has given us as a foundation for our faith. He Himself has taught us what is truth. One will arise and still another with new light which contradicts the light that God has given under the demonstration of His Holy Spirit.
Ellen G. White Writings

Well, that meshes in well with the "foundation and central pillar of the Advent faith" that is really a mistranslation of one verse in the King James version. Adventist "truth" is not the truth - and pursuant to my quote (which removed the fallacious qualification) which came about as Ellen White's excuse to avoid answering E. F. Ballenger's critique of the Investigative Judgment.

And as if the two prior quotes removes any ambiguity, here's another:

"We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories."
Ellen G. White Writings

Is it any wonder that Sabbath Spammers post the most arrant nonsense imaginable?

Just Adventists, who cite verses and then make claims contrary to the verses they cite and/or quote.

 

[LarryP2]

Well, that meshes in well with the "foundation and central pillar of the Advent faith" that is really a mistranslation of one verse in the King James version. Adventist "truth" is not the truth - and pursuant to my quote (which removed the fallacious qualification) which came about as Ellen White's excuse to avoid answering E. F. Ballenger's critique of the Investigative Judgment.

Just Adventists, who cite verses and then make claims contrary to the verses they cite and/or quote.

I would say the sum total of her message is to be ever vigilantly on-guard against any Scripture that contradicts the "Present Truth." And during the late 1800's, the "Present Truth" would often diametrically refute the "Prior Present Truth" that was only a few years old. Or less.

So I propose a translation guide for the meaning of these terms:

Present Truth = The doctrines the Church holds right this very instant.

Future Present Truth = Presently unknown Present Truth, which once apprehended, may well convert Present Truth into Past Present Truth.

Past Present Truth = Truth that was once Present Truth, but has been superseded by more up-to-date Present Truth.

Present Present Truth = Present Truth that has been contradicted by other Present Truth, but has preserved the latter Present Truth into the category of potential Future Present Truth.

 

[VictorC]

I would say the sum total of her message is to be ever vigilantly on-guard against any Scripture that contradicts the "Present Truth." And during the late 1800's, the "Present Truth" would often diametrically refute the "Prior Present Truth" that was only a few years old. Or less.

So I propose a translation guide for the meaning of these terms:

Present Truth = The doctrines the Church holds right this very instant.

Future Present Truth = Presently unknown Present Truth, which once apprehended, may well convert Present Truth into Past Present Truth.

Past Present Truth = Truth that was once Present Truth, but has been superseded by more up-to-date Present Truth.

Present Present Truth = Present Truth that has been contradicted by other Present Truth, but has preserved the latter Present Truth into the category of potential Future Present Truth.

You bring up a good point.
Ellen White abandoned her 'vision' of the Shut Door doctrine, which she claimed to receive via divine revelation. Her act of replacing the Shut Door with the Investigative Judgment is proof that Ellen knew her claim to divine inspiration was fake. Her 'Present Truth' was never the truth.

 

[LarryP2]

You bring up a good point.
Ellen White abandoned her 'vision'&#8482;® of the Shut Door&#8482;® doctrine, which she claimed to receive via divine revelation&#8482;®. Her act of replacing the Shut Door&#8482;® with the Investigative Judgment&#8482;® is proof that Ellen knew her claim to divine inspiration&#8482;® was fake. Her 'Present Truth&#8482;® was never the truth.

And then there was the hideous Dress Reform&#8482;® that she received in vision. It was so downright startlingly ugly and embarrassing, women started complaining about herds of little boys running along next to them, shouting in unison a chorus of bald ridicule..

It was so ugly, it would startle other women into standing there motionless, mouth agape, unable to summons the wherewithal to look away from the spectacle. Victorian women were not allowed to stand in one spot and stare......EVER!

Then another Vision&#8482;® occurred.

"Oh, never mind."

Note: I inserted the proper Trademark and Patent notifications in your quote. I do so to honor the point that few, if any Adventist Doctrines are similar to any other denomination's, and to denote all were devised with a commercial purpose in mind.

 

[VictorC]

You bring up a good point.
Ellen White abandoned her 'vision' of the Shut Door doctrine, which she claimed to receive via divine revelation. Her act of replacing the Shut Door with the Investigative Judgment is proof that Ellen knew her claim to divine inspiration was fake. Her 'Present Truth' was never the truth.

And then there was the hideous Dress Reform that she received in vision. It was so downright startlingly ugly and embarrassing, women started complaining about herds of little boys running along next to them, shouting together in a chorus of bald ridicule.
...
Then another Vision occurred.

"Oh, never mind."

Adventist apologists love to refer to Ellen White as the 'Pen of Inspiration'.
They have not quite caught on to why I popularized the nickname 'Pen of Liability' for her writings.

 

[LarryP2]

Just a few minor editing additions here:

Adventist apologists love to refer to Ellen White as the [Suggested Editorial Enhancement: "Pen of Literary Theft"] 'Pen of Inspiration'&#8482;®.......

There now. I hope you don't mind.

 

[from scratch]

[/SIZE]


In lieu of the Bible proving that even your own pro-Sunday sources see the flaws in your arguments?

Really? That is the substance of your response?

Why not raise a point?

Or are you simply trying to say that you know that the pro-sunday sources listed also debunk your speculative ideas - but you would also like to have one of those ideas confronted "once again" - by the scripture that debunks your claims against Gen 2:3 and Ex 20:11 and Mark 2:27 and Isaiah 66:23?


in Christ,

Bob

I haven's seen your rebuttal about Larry's quotes in response to your saying those people fully support the Ten Commandments. Why is this? Are his quotes lies or something?