Why dont SDA's and Sabbath keepers also keep the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 too???

[Sophrosyne]

After reading the Book of Romans, I can't imagine a more absurd, wacko fetish than which day you worship on. Can you imagine believing in a God that would even CARE about such a trivial thing?

"Oh yeah, 200 plus people vanish without a trace on an airliner.......BUT YOU, by golly, I saw it when you turned off the TV five minutes after sundown on Friday night."

Atheism is a BIG improvement over Adventism.

Paul is the crux of the matter if you truly try to get into his mind you will see he showed God freed us entirely from performance based salvation as it made it impossible for us to be saved. Either God saves us or we save ourselves and adventists don't seem to have a clue that Paul taught this in so many ways throughout his writings such that is saddens me anyone would want the Law instead of God's new plan for us starting at the cross.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Upon reading the forums and dealing with them in real life, I can't believe they read the Bible at all. I think their proof texting shows this to be a reality. One such person who got banned under at least 3 different accounts told me they never heard of John 15:10. Hey that's on the very next page from their favorite John 14:15 which avoids the issues caused by my favorite response of John 15:10.

Ironic that people who denigrate the Church that was responsible for keeping the Bible away from the common man would want to tell them they can't read it without help just like the Catholics did....

 

[from scratch]

Ironic that people who denigrate the Church that was responsible for keeping the Bible away from the common man would want to tell them they can't read it without help just like the Catholics did....

and QFT!!

 

[from scratch]

I think some of it has to do with the changes in the forum moving most of their threads to a separate sub section which reduces exposure of those who only read the general theology area. I expect either they will regroup or a new sock will be started so as to assault the forum with more of their out of context opinions of what the Bible says.

It will be interesting indeed. We'll know them by their doctrine.

 

[mmksparbud]

It is so very upsetting to some that I address nobody in particular---do try and get over it--I do this often and in many other threads--I post a general post to address several issues or maybe even just one--why should that upset anyone??--Is that a written rule here?? I belong to other forums and they don't do that, everyone just posts on the topic and, if needed, will mention someones name, but they never quote others posts, so I'm used to that.

I have posted this before, to address the issue of the disciples "keeping" the feast days, which has been stated they did, and the following verses were stated as proof that they did. I hope this answers some questions, though I doubt it.

As for the feast days--Pentecost was called the Feast of Weeks-celebrated fifty days after the Passover in memory of Moses receiving the laws on Mt. Sinai 50 days after leaving Egypt. That required bread offerings along with 7 lambs, 1 bullock, 2 rams...It's in Lev 23:15-22.
The disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day Pentecost, they were gathered together in one place, it doesn't state what day of the week it was. The sound of a mighty wind filled all the HOUSE--hardly a place in which to offer up all those animals. The day of Pentecost filled the city of Jerusalem with Jews from every nation--and when they heard about the disciples speaking in their own language "the multitude came together."--Perfect time and place to demonstrate the power of God.It does not state they were "keeping" that feast day, just that they were gathered together on that day at a house--not the temple. As they had been gathering together to await the "comforter", but it doesn't say they knew that this was going to be the day.
Acts 20:16--Paul was hurrying to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost.--Paul liked to preach to large gatherings--and even though he hasted to get to Jerusalem for the day of Pentecost, however, Acts 21:4 "And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days:who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem."---No mention that the Day of Pentecost was "kept" while at Tyre. If I were an SDA of Jewish ancestry,)which even one of our pastors was a born and raised one) I would probably like to keep that,without the animal sacrifices,, of course; but I am of German, English, and Hispanic background. Nothing wrong with celebrating an important date of ones history--I celebrate 4th of July as I am an American citizen, and I have no idea what holidays are celebrated in Costa Rica.

Passover and unleavened bread was discussed by Bob--And just a note--Passover (now called Communion) was celebrated without leavening--of any kind--which means that the "wine" could not be fermented--no yeast anywhere permitted.

Feast of Tabernacles: Acts 18--Paul spent 1 yr and 6 mths in Corinth and then he went to Syria with Priscilla and Aquila then he went to Ephesus and "reasoned with the Jews." They wanted him to stay longer, he said no as he had to "keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem"--What feast??---it doesn't say. All his travels were documented for over 1 1/2 years and no mention of him keeping any feast, and no way to determine what feast he was trying to get to in Jerusalem or when that feast would be as he then went to Caesarea, Antioch (where he spent some time) then on to "all the country of Galatia and Phrygia in order, strengthening the disciples." And he keeps on going and in Acts 19 :10 it says this went on for 2 more years so all of Asia heard of Jesus--And still no mention of what feast he had wanted to be in Jerusalem for or that he made it there!

Acts 27:9--"the fast was now already passed."--That is the Day of Atonement--Yom Kipper--That day required animal sacrifices also--High priest went into the holy place with a bullock and ram- and 2 goats and a ram. The 2 goats were for the sins of the congregation--one goat was killed for the sins of the congregation, lots of blood going around to cleans the sins of the congregation, the sins of the high priest and to cleanse the sanctuary,n and then the priest laid his hands on the live goat and confessed all the sins of Israel putting them on the head of the goat and the goat was led out into the wilderness and let go. It was the highest of Holy Days, depicting the price that Jesus would pay to cleans us from sins and depicting the end of Satan--the goat who took the blame for the price of all those sins that Christ had to die for--the wilderness--the 1000 years when Satan is bound.
Now, all that Acts 27:9 says is that the day of atonement had already passed, placing this event (the voyage) in the winter-a time not suitable for the voyage and Paul warned that it would now be a voyage that would be very dangerous for cargo and ship and also for their lives, but nobody listened to him and they took off anyway--which proved as disasterous as Paul had predicted. This has been replaced by the fact that Christ died on the cross. His death, His blood, He has offered before God "ONCE" for all. If it was done once, then why would anyone need to "keep" it? Every Christian praises God for the sacrifice of His son at what has come to be known as Easter. It is the death, the blood that was shed that was the reason for "keeping" this day--to signify the forgiving of sins, for without it there can be no forgiveness.

On the resurrection morning there was great rejoicing when it was found out that Christ had risen--Now the whole thing finally made sense to everyone. We celebrate His resurrection--but we do not celebrate Easter--the very name comes from a pagan godess, and was a fertility rite--thus the rabbits, (prolific little creatures) and the eggs and baby chicks--It's His resurrection that is of vital importance, not bunnies and eggs.

I will get to other points later--I can only do so much at a time!

 

[Lollerskates]

There has been alot of threads lately about Christians not keeping the Sabbath, so my questions to the SDA's and other Sabbath keepers that thinks Sunday is so wrong and that they are following the commands of God, do you keep the Sabbaths listed in Lev 23 along with the weekly Sabbath too?

If not, why, as they are commands of God too.
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Leviticus 23

Feasts of the Lord

23 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts.
The Sabbath

3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

The Passover and Unleavened Bread

4 ‘These are the feasts of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. 5 On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the Lord’s Passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 7 On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it. 8 But you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord for seven days. The seventh day shall be a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it.’”

The Feast of Firstfruits

9 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 10 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When you come into the land which I give to you, and reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest. 11 He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted on your behalf; on the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12 And you shall offer on that day, when you wave the sheaf, a male lamb of the first year, without blemish, as a burnt offering to the Lord. 13 Its grain offering shall be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering made by fire to the Lord, for a sweet aroma; and its drink offering shall be of wine, one-fourth of a hin. 14 You shall eat neither bread nor parched grain nor fresh grain until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

The Feast of Weeks

15 ‘And you shall count for yourselves from the day after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering: seven Sabbaths shall be completed. 16 Count fifty days to the day after the seventh Sabbath; then you shall offer a new grain offering to the Lord. 17 You shall bring from your dwellings two wave loaves of two-tenths of an ephah. They shall be of fine flour; they shall be baked with leaven. They are the firstfruits to the Lord. 18 And you shall offer with the bread seven lambs of the first year, without blemish, one young bull, and two rams. They shall be as a burnt offering to the Lord, with their grain offering and their drink offerings, an offering made by fire for a sweet aroma to the Lord. 19 Then you shall sacrifice one kid of the goats as a sin offering, and two male lambs of the first year as a sacrifice of a peace offering. 20 The priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits as a wave offering before the Lord, with the two lambs. They shall be holy to the Lord for the priest. 21 And you shall proclaim on the same day that it is a holy convocation to you. You shall do no customary work on it. It shall be a statute forever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
22 ‘When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not wholly reap the corners of your field when you reap, nor shall you gather any gleaning from your harvest. You shall leave them for the poor and for the stranger: I am the Lord your God.’”

The Feast of Trumpets

23 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 24 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a sabbath-rest, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation. 25 You shall do no customary work on it; and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord.’”

The Day of Atonement

26 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 27 “Also the tenth day of this seventh month shall be the Day of Atonement. It shall be a holy convocation for you; you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. 28 And you shall do no work on that same day, for it is the Day of Atonement, to make atonement for you before the Lord your God. 29 For any person who is not afflicted in soul on that same day shall be cut off from his people. 30 And any person who does any work on that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people. 31 You shall do no manner of work; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32 It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.”

The Feast of Tabernacles

33 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 34 “Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days to the Lord. 35 On the first day there shall be a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work on it. 36 For seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. On the eighth day you shall have a holy convocation, and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord. It is a sacred assembly, and you shall do no customary work on it.
37 ‘These are the feasts of the Lord which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the Lord, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day— 38 besides the Sabbaths of the Lord, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the Lord.
39 ‘Also on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, you shall keep the feast of the Lord for seven days; on the first day there shall be a sabbath-rest, and on the eighth day a sabbath-rest. 40 And you shall take for yourselves on the first day the fruit of beautiful trees, branches of palm trees, the boughs of leafy trees, and willows of the brook; and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God for seven days. 41 You shall keep it as a feast to the Lord for seven days in the year. It shall be a statute forever in your generations. You shall celebrate it in the seventh month. 42 You shall dwell in booths for seven days. All who are native Israelites shall dwell in booths, 43 that your generations may know that I made the children of Israel dwell in booths when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.’”
44 So Moses declared to the children of Israel the feasts of the Lord.

Some of us [try to] do. As a matter of fact, Passover is coming up in a couple of weeks.

 

[LarryP2]

Some of us [try to] do. As a matter of fact, Passover is coming up in a couple of weeks.

Well congratulations! You are to be commended for your honest consistency in trying to keep ALL of the Sabbaths and Feast Days. You have at least accepted the clear command that if you keep one part of the law, you have to keep it all. As far as I am concerned, the Adventist Feast Keepers are the only honest Adventists out there, willing to logically follow out the theology to the bitter, logical end. I have emphasized that many times. And even more so, the ones that openly reject St. Paul are the most admirable and intellectually honest ones, thereby avoiding the incredibly-deceitful scripture-sculpting and mangling that mainstream Adventism does to the Epistles.

And nobody then is confused where everybody is. Mainstream Adventism is in a spiritual never-land, with one foot in Judaism and the other barely in Christianity. The Feast Keepers give up on the raw deception and slowly morph into Messianic Judaism.

 

[VictorC]

It is so very upsetting to some that I address nobody in particular---do try and get over it--I do this often and in many other threads--I post a general post to address several issues or maybe even just one--why should that upset anyone??--Is that a written rule here?? I belong to other forums and they don't do that, everyone just posts on the topic and, if needed, will mention someones name, but they never quote others posts, so I'm used to that.

Please don't construe someone waiting for an answer with being upset. This is what I wrote before:

You're writing posts addressed to no one in particular now, and blaming others for not reading the epistle to the Hebrews. This doesn't take into account preceding posts pointing out where you've contradicted specific passages in this epistle, and you aren't responding to them.

Simply put, you aren't conversing. Before you were stuck in a pit you dug, hollering epithets at those asking you questions. You're still in a pit of your own making. To wit:

His death, His blood, He has offered before God "ONCE" for all. If it was done once, then why would anyone need to "keep" it?

Why don't you apply this to the entire Law Christ fulfilled? You've already reached a point where you forced the conclusion that the Sabbath came to an end. Here you attribute the same conclusion on (some of) the annual Sabbaths, and you aren't consistent with yourself. And, it is in variance to an argument you earlier appealed to whereby not one jot nor tittle of the Law will expire until after heaven and earth pass away (a poor interpretation of Matthew 5:18 that also denies the fulfillment of prophecy), and it was your claim that the first covenant wasn't made obsolete and taken away, but just moved to another location into your heart.

Changing your argument without conceding the many errors you posited and now contradict doesn't answer anything in preceding conversation.

 

[from scratch]

Some of us [try to] do. As a matter of fact, Passover is coming up in a couple of weeks.

Do you really celebrate Passover or something else? Remember the law hasn't changed.

 

[VictorC]

Some of us [try to] do. As a matter of fact, Passover is coming up in a couple of weeks.

'Try to' doesn't sound as if you have a lot of confidence. There is no such thing as 'try' in the way the old covenant was conveyed. Don't forget that no one who isn't circumcised is permitted to partake in the Passover (Exodus 12:48).

 

[LarryP2]

I feel like I must gently remonstrate with Victor C and Saan. Those two admirable and forgiving Christians have been incredibly lax with the duties that are in the Old Testament that are still binding on Seventh Day Adventists. I understand that they are not inclined to be particularly judgmental and are blessed with forgiving spirits, but I must stand up for the truth here! Here are some other duties that Adventists must be aware of, given that their very salvation depends on their ability to follow the Old Testament Laws:

"For example, we must not mix one type of cloth with another, we must execute Sabbath-breakers, and we must not have relations with our spouses until at least seven days after the woman’s period ends.[failure on this invokes the Death Penalty] We must sacrifice animals, must stay outside until evening if we have touched a football (pigskin is unclean!) and much more. The list could go on and on. By the way, you must not mix milk products with beef (a Quarter Pounder with cheese is a sin). If you touch a dead carcass you must be quarantined."
http://www.rethinkingadventism.com/support-files/newcovenant_gtaylor.pdf

Given that the above list was compiled by an ex-Adventist minister, it would behoove the Sabbath fanatics to search their hearts and begin to immediately comply with God's commandments. It seems that Victor C and Saan have been far too "Christian" in the additional duties that they have recommended for Adventists. I understand they were strictly motivated by compassion and a forgiving spirit, but the Salvation of these Adventists are at risk until they start strict obedience with ALL of the Old Testament commands.

I get it that Victor and Saan are full of Christian patience and forgiveness, but by golly, I care about people touching footballs!

 

[Lollerskates]

Do you really celebrate Passover or something else? Remember the law hasn't changed.

Passover this year will be fourteen days after March 30, after the actual new moon begins, according to scripture. So, the gregorian 5th of April will be the first Sabbath, (Hebrew 6th of April,) and then gregorian 13th of April will be Passover (Hebrew 14th, as usual, of April/the Month.)

My family gets a lamb on the 10th, we cook it on the 14th, we soak bitter herbs with salt and water, then symbolically shake them out. We are serious about the Holy Days of God.

We also eat unleavened bread from the day of passover until eight days later.

 

[Lollerskates]

'Try to' doesn't sound as if you have a lot of confidence. There is no such thing as 'try' in the way the old covenant was conveyed. Don't forget that no one who isn't circumcised is permitted to partake in the Passover (Exodus 12:48).

I said [try to] in brackets because obviously we are all human, and no human except Christ was able to fully follow the Law perfectly. It isn't about confidence; it is about humility. "Be perfect, as your Father is perfect," but know that you are human also, and your limitations are opportunities for Christ to perfect you. That is why I said "try to" in brackets. Even the most orthodox of us sin, until we are sanctified - in which we are only 99.99999999999% perfected - full perfection happens at resurrection.

I am supremely confident in what I do, and who I follow, and why I do what I do/follow what I follow.

Also, regarding 12:48, what was the new circumcision again, according to the new covenant? If I remember correctly, the new covenant had a clause about circumcision of the heart. This life has been upgraded from pure carnality to spirituality. That is why Christ said, "if you even lust..." on another woman you commit adultery. The game has been upgraded - in thought, mindset and undestanding. Nothing has been "eased," Christ did not instill a "handicap" on the Law of God. We are still supposed to follow it, but obedience to the law does not justify our salvation - only our obedience to God. New Covenant.


EDIT: I also said "try to" in brackets because not everyone is wearing 100% same linens, 100% kosher only, and so on. I cannot speak for everyone who tries to follow God's law completely, or keeps the feasts.

 

[VictorC]

I said [try to] in brackets because obviously we are all human, and no human except Christ was able to fully follow the Law perfectly. It isn't about confidence; it is about humility. "Be perfect, as your Father is perfect," but know that you are human also, and your limitations are opportunities for Christ to perfect you. That is why I said "try to" in brackets. Even the most orthodox of us sin, until we are sanctified - in which we are only 99.99999999999% perfected - full perfection happens at resurrection.

I am supremely confident in what I do, and who I follow, and why I do what I do/follow what I follow.

You said "try to" because you don't keep the Law. Who do you think you're kidding? And if other humans can perceive your transgression to the ordinances of the old covenant, do you think this escapes God's attention? In Sabbatarian Newspeak, humility = arrogance. This becomes especially apparent in light of Romans 11:32, a conclusion addressing the recipients of the old covenant: "For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all." God's mercy is dependent on His disposition of the old covenant's recipients, and He made no exception to "all".

Also, regarding 12:48, what was the new circumcision again, according to the new covenant? If I remember correctly, the new covenant had a clause about circumcision of the heart. This life has been upgraded from pure carnality to spirituality. That is why Christ said, "if you even lust..." on another woman you commit adultery. The game has been upgraded - in thought, mindset and undestanding. Nothing has been "eased," Christ did not instill a "handicap" on the Law of God. We are still supposed to follow it, but obedience to the law does not justify our salvation - only our obedience to God. New Covenant.


EDIT: I also said "try to" in brackets because not everyone is wearing 100% same linens, 100% kosher only, and so on. I cannot speak for everyone who tries to follow God's law completely, or keeps the feasts.

Regarding circumcision of the heart, it is likely you have Romans 2:29 in mind - but look at the larger context leading up to this verse:

17 Indeed you are called a Jew, and rest on the law, and make your boast in God, 18 and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, having the form of knowledge and truth in the law. 21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” as it is written.
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.​

I draw your attention to verse 25 above. The Law codified in Exodus 12:48 refers to circumcision of the flesh, cutting away the foreskin. The Law demands compliance in the flesh, apart from the condition of the heart or the intentions thereof.

Keep in mind that the narrative of this epistle starts with identifying the problem, whereby v.3:19 concludes "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." It isn't until two verses following this that the solution is presented. Your reference is within the old covenant, and not the new.

Mind you, I encourage others to attend a Messianic Passover seder. I have participated in several, and found them instructive in illustrating the prophetic shadows of the Law. However, there is no one at these functions who pretends to keep the Law. We learn from it, and how it drove the recipients to God's redemption (Galatians 3:23-25 addresses this). As a Gentile it is presumptuous to claim the history and deliverance from slavery that only the children of Israel can claim as their experience.

 

[Lollerskates]

VictorC, luckily for both of us I am not trying to please you, or your presumptive and surly attitude toward someone who dies follow all of the law. You use the FACT that no human will follow all law perfectly to make me out to be a Pharisee preaching works and law over salvation - completely opposite of what I have said. There are people that watch the sky for signs, study the whole Law for following, read Latin/Greek/Hebrew, etc. It is very insulting that I respond telling you exactly my stance, and then have you tell me what [you think] I meant. It is in your first sentence. Just for your information, I do it for myself, and to be obedient - because I want to. Christ is my saivor who became flesh, died for my sins, resurrected to full Glory and who is at the right hand of God (soon to come back and bring all He chooses to perfection and resurrection.) Christ was in the beginning because He is God. He was perfect when He was on earth, and He will always. He is the literal word of God.

I know my icon says "other faith," and that is simply because I don't want to be called a Christian - look how eloquently you verbalised how much you know about my walk with God even after I give the details. But, I just gave you extra details on what I believe. So, I would suggest you stop presuming, assuming and subtlely judging what you really have no idea of.

 

[drstevej]

I know my icon says "other faith," and that is simply because I don't want to be called a Christian

Actually that icon is for those who self identify as non-Nicene Christians. See List.

 

[from scratch]

I said [try to] in brackets because obviously we are all human, and no human except Christ was able to fully follow the Law perfectly. It isn't about confidence; it is about humility. "Be perfect, as your Father is perfect," but know that you are human also, and your limitations are opportunities for Christ to perfect you. That is why I said "try to" in brackets. Even the most orthodox of us sin, until we are sanctified - in which we are only 99.99999999999% perfected - full perfection happens at resurrection.

I am supremely confident in what I do, and who I follow, and why I do what I do/follow what I follow.

Also, regarding 12:48, what was the new circumcision again, according to the new covenant? If I remember correctly, the new covenant had a clause about circumcision of the heart. This life has been upgraded from pure carnality to spirituality. That is why Christ said, "if you even lust..." on another woman you commit adultery. The game has been upgraded - in thought, mindset and undestanding. Nothing has been "eased," Christ did not instill a "handicap" on the Law of God. We are still supposed to follow it, but obedience to the law does not justify our salvation - only our obedience to God. New Covenant.


EDIT: I also said "try to" in brackets because not everyone is wearing 100% same linens, 100% kosher only, and so on. I cannot speak for everyone who tries to follow God's law completely, or keeps the feasts.

So explain circumcision of the heart. I believe there is also something about circumcising the ears. Would you mind educating us?

 

[from scratch]

VictorC, luckily for both of us I am not trying to please you, or your presumptive and surly attitude toward someone who dies follow all of the law. You use the FACT that no human will follow all law perfectly to make me out to be a Pharisee preaching works and law over salvation - completely opposite of what I have said. There are people that watch the sky for signs, study the whole Law for following, read Latin/Greek/Hebrew, etc. It is very insulting that I respond telling you exactly my stance, and then have you tell me what [you think] I meant. It is in your first sentence. Just for your information, I do it for myself, and to be obedient - because I want to. Christ is my saivor who became flesh, died for my sins, resurrected to full Glory and who is at the right hand of God (soon to come back and bring all He chooses to perfection and resurrection.) Christ was in the beginning because He is God. He was perfect when He was on earth, and He will always. He is the literal word of God.

I know my icon says "other faith," and that is simply because I don't want to be called a Christian - look how eloquently you verbalised how much you know about my walk with God even after I give the details. But, I just gave you extra details on what I believe. So, I would suggest you stop presuming, assuming and subtlely judging what you really have no idea of.

So why are you participating on a Christian forum?

 

[VictorC]

VictorC, luckily for both of us I am not trying to please you, or your presumptive and surly attitude toward someone who dies follow all of the law. You use the FACT that no human will follow all law perfectly to make me out to be a Pharisee preaching works and law over salvation - completely opposite of what I have said. There are people that watch the sky for signs, study the whole Law for following, read Latin/Greek/Hebrew, etc. It is very insulting that I respond telling you exactly my stance, and then have you tell me what [you think] I meant. It is in your first sentence. Just for your information, I do it for myself, and to be obedient - because I want to. Christ is my saivor who became flesh, died for my sins, resurrected to full Glory and who is at the right hand of God (soon to come back and bring all He chooses to perfection and resurrection.) Christ was in the beginning because He is God. He was perfect when He was on earth, and He will always. He is the literal word of God.

I know my icon says "other faith," and that is simply because I don't want to be called a Christian - look how eloquently you verbalised how much you know about my walk with God even after I give the details. But, I just gave you extra details on what I believe. So, I would suggest you stop presuming, assuming and subtlely judging what you really have no idea of.

In light of the Apostle Paul's observation in Galatians 6:13 "not even those who are circumcised keep the law", it isn't hard to see through the fiction in your claims. You've already dismissed this essential entrance fee into the Law.

Please do not be concerned about others calling you a Christian. Old-covenant 'christianity' is a oxymoron that doesn't exist.

 

[LarryP2]

Old-covenant 'christianity' is a oxymoron that doesn't exist.

I respect your thinking a lot, and am intrigued by the statement, so I would appreciate a more in-depth explanation here. Just to get the ball rolling, I will disclose that I just today read Justin Martyr's "Dialogue with Trypho" and Ignatius of Antioch's "Epistle to the Magnesiums."

Thanks.