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"...And your Lord is never forgetful..."
- Thread starter LoveBeingAMuslimah
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OK all, I posted a question on the forum and got the correct answer on this. So "begot" can mean descendant of, as in ancient times it is more import establish ancestors than actual lines.
link: https://bible.org/seriespage/coming-grips-genealogies-genesis-51-32
quote"“The expression ‘A begat B’ does not always imply direct parentage.”73 Matthew 1:8 states that ‘Joram begat Uzziah,’ but from the Old Testament (II Kings 8:25; 11:2, 14:1,21) we learn that Joram was the father of Ahaziah, who fathered Joash, father of Amaziah father of Uzziah. Thus ‘begat’ can mean ‘begat the line culminating in.’74 As Kitchen states, “Terms like ‘son’ and ‘father’ can mean not only ‘(grand)son’ and ‘(grand)father,’ but also ‘descendant’ and ‘ancestor’ respectively.”7"
link: https://bible.org/seriespage/coming-grips-genealogies-genesis-51-32
quote"“The expression ‘A begat B’ does not always imply direct parentage.”73 Matthew 1:8 states that ‘Joram begat Uzziah,’ but from the Old Testament (II Kings 8:25; 11:2, 14:1,21) we learn that Joram was the father of Ahaziah, who fathered Joash, father of Amaziah father of Uzziah. Thus ‘begat’ can mean ‘begat the line culminating in.’74 As Kitchen states, “Terms like ‘son’ and ‘father’ can mean not only ‘(grand)son’ and ‘(grand)father,’ but also ‘descendant’ and ‘ancestor’ respectively.”7"
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I propose a #3 scenario, which is the one I accept.
The whole of the Adam and Eve story is part of a creation myth from an ancient middle-eastern pre-Jewish tribe of desert dwellers. Their Creation Story may have been in circulation and carried forward long before those desert dwellers came onto the scene. It seems to me that particular story was told as a teaching tool that explained to those ancient people in a way they understood the awakening of human beings into consciousness.
Today science is bringing to light a new Creation Story, one not based on myth. Yet, we are still trying to understand the awakening of human beings into consciousness.
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smaneck
Baha'i
I would disagree with that. Most scholars believe that Genesis was written during the Babylonian captivity. It can best be understood as a "no" to Mesopotamian myths which had creation come into being by slaying a primordial serpent, that men were created merely to serve the gods, and that the Flood was simply the result of their capriciousness.
It takes some of the same motifs we find in the Babylonian myths but does something different with them. And what it does differently is the heart of Genesis. Science doesn't bring forward a new creation story, it simply tells us the how. A story needs a 'why' as well. Science gives us facts, not value. It is Genesis tell us the creation is good. Science cannot say that.
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528 sentenced to death by Egyptian court. The first hearing - on Saturday - was quickly adjourned. At Monday's second session, the mass death sentences were announced.
BBC News - Egypt court sentences 528 Morsi supporters to death
BBC News - Egypt court sentences 528 Morsi supporters to death
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TG123
Regular Member
If carried out, this will be a horrific and evil act of mass murder, by a despicable regime that already has the blood of hundreds on its hands.
May God stop this sentence from being perpetrated, and may those who passed it repent. All military aid to Egypt should be immediately cut off.
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Geneses was written while in Babylonia. But where did the Adam and Eve story itself come from. It's that particular aspect of Genesis that I was responding to. Where did that story come from? I've read that it was with in the religious motif of that ancient middle-eastern tribe of desert people that eventually became the Jewish people. That was long before captivity.
But, are you suggesting that the Adam and Eve story entered the Jewish motif long after that, when they were captive in Babylonia? If so, that's interesting and different than what I've read. I'm clearly no historian.
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smaneck
Baha'i
But Adam is a farmer, not a herder, so it seems unlikely the story would have originated from a tribe of desert nomads. However, there is a Sumerian myth which has some striking similarities to the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden:
"In the myth of Enki and Ninhursag it is related that the mother-goddess Ninhursag caused eight plants to grow in the garden of the gods. Enki desired to eat these plants and sent his messenger Isimud to fetch them. Enki ate them one by one, and Ninhursag in her rage pronounced the curse of death upon Enki. As the result of the curse eight of Enkis bodily organs were attacked by disease and he was at the pain of death. The great gods were in dismay and Enlil [the chief god] was powerless to help. Ninhursag was induced to return and deal with the situation. She created eight goddesses of healing who proceeded to heal each of the diseased parts of Enkis body. One of these parts was the gods rib, and the goddess who was created to deal with the rib was named Ninti, which means lady of the rib." Hooke, Middle Eastern Mythology pp. 114-15.
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Yep, pretty much @ both of your posts.
From the link that sums up a lot of my feelings:
"...this is the new Egypt after the coup. This is the new dictatorship that [army chief and defence minister Field Marshal] Abdul Fattah al-Sisi is trying to establish."
Speaking of Sisi, he has resigned from the military so that he can run in the (likely-to-be-a-sham) illegal, presidential race.
What's noteworthy is that the Muslim Brotherhood has been declared a terrorist organization by those in power who led the coup so they cannot run in the elections.
On top of this:
"But three leading candidates from the 2012 elections have already withdrawn from this year's race, warning that the election will be a sham.
'I won't take part in deceiving people into believing we have a democratic path when we don't,' one of the withdrawn candidates, Abdel Moneim Aboul Fotouh, said in February."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/26/egypt-army-chief-resign-presidential-campaign
Who can blame them? Democracy failed the moment the coup occurred and replaced the legitimate government with a ruthless, treacherous, murderous, lying-through-their-teeth group.
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The problems in Egypt will take decades to sort out.
As for christianity or Islam, its a waste of time. Blind faith. Dangerous, divisive, and riddled with madness. Sure I'm just touching on the bad history, but it still gives false views of our world.
As for christianity or Islam, its a waste of time. Blind faith. Dangerous, divisive, and riddled with madness. Sure I'm just touching on the bad history, but it still gives false views of our world.
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TG123
Regular Member
I don't believe Islam is true, and I believe that those who accept its teachings and reject the Gospel will sadly suffer eternal torment, with all others who reject who Jesus is and what He has done for us.
However, I would not call it "blind faith" or "dangerous" or "divisive" or "riddled with madness". It does not encourage or promote terrorism or mistreatment of innocent people or imperialism.
Neither does Christianity.
Some people have done terrible things in the name of Islam and Christianity but they were disobeying, not following, its teachings.
You state that my faith (and Islam) give false views of the world. I see you identify yourself as an atheist.
How are the views of the world presented in my faith false? What alternative do you offer?
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I disagree. I think anyone who follow the love your neighbor as yourself rule would not suffer eternal torment.
Yep, it is definitely not blind faith. Many man of science are also man of faith, I was raised atheism and had the blind faith of there is no God for a long time
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The former Lunar Module pilot James Irwin who would found the High Flight foundation in 1973, after his summer 1971 trip to Hadley rile, the first Astronaut to drive a vehicle on the moon and sadly the first to go a little nutty with religion even going as far as looking for Noah's Ark.
An Astronaut with such a position being a devout christian and then some kind of evangelical, what!
I emailed the site, only to receive a reply from his Daughter, apparently. So much blind faith.
An Astronaut with such a position being a devout christian and then some kind of evangelical, what!
I emailed the site, only to receive a reply from his Daughter, apparently. So much blind faith.
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Yasir Qadhi said:
"I honestly thought this story was a satirical article out of the 'The Onion'; turns out its real!
An Egyptian farmer gets sentenced to one year in jail after naming his donkey 'Sisi' - even the animal is taken into custody!
Farmer to serve prison time for naming donkey after Sisi | Egypt Independent
One wonders what the crime of the poor animal was!
Actually I believe the farmer should not have been jailed, but rather fined instead. He committed a great crime and showed his cruel nature when he named an innocent animal 'Sisi'. Clearly this would constitute animal torture, and he did deserve to be punished for it. At least the Egyptian government got one thing right
Ya Ahl Masr, I pray the sensible ones among you can help those who have lost their senses to regain it! As for us, we can just make dua."
So to recap, this illegitimate government brought in by the military has brought back the secret police, banned the Muslim Brotherhood (and declared them a terrorist group), killed more than 1,000 protesters because of the coup, sentenced more than 500 anti-coup protesters to death, killed family members of the Muslim Brotherhood, shut down anti-coup channels down minutes after taking over (whereas anti-Morsi channels were not generally taken down while Morsi was in), arrested members of the media, bit the hand that fed them by making one of the more prominent people in the media who had supported them flee the country because of a tiny joke made against Sisi, banned the r4bia symbol, and now has imprisoned someone for naming their donkey after Sisi (and have taken the donkey as well). rofl.
Such "urban and well-cultured" people! [/sarcasm] These are the same people whose supporters had nearly 100 rape or sexual assault cases within 4 days while the anti-coup protesters had none.
"I honestly thought this story was a satirical article out of the 'The Onion'; turns out its real!
An Egyptian farmer gets sentenced to one year in jail after naming his donkey 'Sisi' - even the animal is taken into custody!
Farmer to serve prison time for naming donkey after Sisi | Egypt Independent
One wonders what the crime of the poor animal was!
Actually I believe the farmer should not have been jailed, but rather fined instead. He committed a great crime and showed his cruel nature when he named an innocent animal 'Sisi'. Clearly this would constitute animal torture, and he did deserve to be punished for it. At least the Egyptian government got one thing right
Ya Ahl Masr, I pray the sensible ones among you can help those who have lost their senses to regain it! As for us, we can just make dua."
So to recap, this illegitimate government brought in by the military has brought back the secret police, banned the Muslim Brotherhood (and declared them a terrorist group), killed more than 1,000 protesters because of the coup, sentenced more than 500 anti-coup protesters to death, killed family members of the Muslim Brotherhood, shut down anti-coup channels down minutes after taking over (whereas anti-Morsi channels were not generally taken down while Morsi was in), arrested members of the media, bit the hand that fed them by making one of the more prominent people in the media who had supported them flee the country because of a tiny joke made against Sisi, banned the r4bia symbol, and now has imprisoned someone for naming their donkey after Sisi (and have taken the donkey as well). rofl.
Such "urban and well-cultured" people! [/sarcasm] These are the same people whose supporters had nearly 100 rape or sexual assault cases within 4 days while the anti-coup protesters had none.
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TG123
Regular Member
I think Jesus disagrees with you, brother.
John 3:10-21
10 You are Israels teacher, said Jesus, and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaventhe Son of Man.[e] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.[g]
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
People can only be are saved through faith in Jesus Christ. Without it, there is no hope of salvation.
I do not believe that those who have not heard the Gospel are condemned, since to not believe in a message you need to have it heard first, understood it, and rejected it.
I am glad you came to Him, brother.Yep, it is definitely not blind faith. Many man of science are also man of faith, I was raised atheism and had the blind faith of there is no God for a long time
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light upon light
Baha'i
I know that you would not throw Anne Frank into hell.
Are you kinder and more loving and more forgiving than Jesus? I like you a lot TG123, but no you are not more compassionate than the Lord Christ. Therefore, perhaps your understanding of the bible passages you quoted is incorrect.
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smaneck
Baha'i
This seems to be the same ridiculous law which Morsi used to silence dissent;
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/w...enced-to-prison-for-insulting-morsi.html?_r=0
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