Do masons build?

[14messenger]

And regardless of what Crowley believed or did not believe, there *are* theistic satanists today.

Nuh uh.

 

[14messenger]

but calling him a "truly despicable man" strikes me as somewhat lopsided.

Personally, I find more insight and meaning in Crowley's "Liber Al vel Legis" than in any verse of the Qur'an, regardless of the man's more despicable character traits.

And that is yet another reason we Christians prefer the word of God.

 

[14messenger]

Every single Freemason on this list has denied that Freemasonry is a religion.

What is it?

 

[smaneck]

What is it?

It's a fraternity whose organization replicates those of medieval craft guilds.

 

[14messenger]

I am not a Mason. I think I might like to be, but so far haven't felt like spending the money to join. I know a number of Masons, nearly all of them serious Christian believers. Those friends are why I am interested in joining. They are good folk to a man.

All the Masons I know make pretty good sense. IF they really are planning to take over the world, I want them to get on with it. The Masons could not possibly make a bigger mess of things than whoever is running it now.

Taking responsibility for what is happening, is the last thing anybody wants to do unless they are basking in the wealth of selfishness and destruction of others.

 

[14messenger]

Yes, but you used that quote as allegedly proving not that it is religious in nature but as supposedly evidence that it is, rather, a religion. That kind of deliberate misuse of words, particularly when making such a serious allegation as this, completely destroys your credibility IMO, even if you might be able to raise other points worth considering.

So what is it?

 

[circuitrider]

Let us please remain on topic without false accusations and flaming.

Do Masons build for God?

That's not exactly on topic either but close.

Freemasonry exists to to help men to improve themselves through a philosophy of living which encourages friendship, morality, and brotherly love. So what Masons are building is their own characters.

 

[americanvet]

If you want a pretty clear idea of what many United Methodists believe take a good look at this book. Rev. Thielen is a pretty typical UM Pastor.

What's the Least I Can Believe and Still Be a Christian? New Edition with Study Guide: A Guide to What Matters Most: Martin Thielen: 9780664239381: Amazon.com: Books

Methodist Doctrine The Essentials, 2nd Edition by Ted A Campbell [Abingdon Press, 2011] (Paperback) Revised edition: Amazon.com: Books

Living Our Beliefs: The United Methodist Way: Kenneth L. Carder: 9780881775716: Amazon.com: Books

These are the two books I have on UMC beliefs.

 

[14messenger]

So what Masons are building is their own characters.

Your suggesting your character is more important than loving all of Gods creation?

 

[14messenger]

These are the two books I have on UMC beliefs.

What does the UMC have to do with Freemason's?

 

[americanvet]

Your suggesting your character is more important than loving all of Gods creation?

How did you come up with this?

 

[14messenger]

How did you come up with this?

Note, the response is directed to another poster. Your question came after.

So what Masons are building is their own characters.

Do Masons seek to build their own character?

 

[dlamberth]

How do you expect them to pay the bills, water, electricity, gas, rent, taxes on only $65 a year? Are you being carried?

I'm not a Mason. But we do rent their building once a month for a spiritual event. There are other ways beyond dues to generate income.

.

 

[Albion]

Originally Posted by 14messenger:
How do you expect them to pay the bills, water, electricity, gas, rent, taxes on only $65 a year? Are you being carried?

I'm not a Mason. But we do rent their building once a month for a spiritual event. There are other ways beyond dues to generate income.

Of course that's so, but of course also, there's more than one member of the lodge.

A little sixth-grade arithmetic would have told our friend to at least multiply the $65 TIMES the other 200 or so members of the lodge in order to estimate the annual revenue available for utilities, taxes, etc. from dues. (65 x 200 = $13,000).

 

[HitchSlap]

Masonry is a fraternal order in dire need of new members. They're all dying off.

 

[RomansFiveEight]

Your suggesting your character is more important than loving all of Gods creation?

I think that's quite a jump. God gave us the ability to do more things, to have a back burner; to still accomplish goals that are secondary to our primary Goals. My grandfather is a Mason, has been since he was a teenager. He's also active in his congregation. The Masons are not his "religion", his religion is a faith in God and Jesus Christ lived out in practice through worship, study, prayer, and action. Why can't he both work on individual character development through the Masons, AND be a committed member of the church?

I'm a part of a motorcycle ministry and we often run into this same logic and issue. It's rooted in the best of intentions, granted. But occasionally, we want to work on ourselves. Even God rested. We'd like to take a little ride out somewhere just to hang out, to grow with each other, relax; kind of a 'spiritual retreat' if you will. Ideally, we'd like to do this regularly. There is always opposition, folks saying we need to evangelize. Darn right! But if we work every second of every day we'll become ineffective. Their issue also stems from a small-God view. My big God is more than big enough to allow us opportunities to share the message of God to waitresses in a restaurant or birdwatchers or shoppers just by our Christ-like presence in the world and perhaps even through interaction! (Preach the Gospel always. If necessary, use words! A quote often, probably incorrectly, attributed to St. Francis of Assisi)

The gist of what I'm saying is, it's really easy to be critical of someone when some aspect of their lives is not 100% focused on some aspect of faith that you or I deem most important. But the reality is there is a lot God is called to do. What of Seminary's? Graduate schools intended to teach and train Pastors. Are they not doing God's work because they focus nearly all of their energy on Christians; often nearly exclusively of their own faith traditions? Of course not. They are training and equipping disciples to fulfill the great commission, and giving them the tools to train congregations to do the same, in addition to providing care for the church so that it's members can continue to work for God. So if the Mason's ministry is building up individuals, then that's perfectly valid if in fact that's what God has called them to do!

 

[Skip Sampson]

Skip, argue with John Wesley about his views of salvation and not me.

As I noted: you put your faith in the word of men. Cordially, Skip.

 

[RomansFiveEight]

As I noted: you put your faith in the word of men. Cordially, Skip.

What is scripture but the word of men?

You'll likely reply that those men we trust were inspired by the Holy Spirit to write town the accounts and oral traditions of the witnesses of the Gospel (some decades after Christ). We do not feel that Wesley, Calvin, or anybody else supercedes scripture. But we trust that the spirit was at work in them to help us to better understand the scriptures.

We put our 'trust' in men (and women), and our 'faith' in God.

 

[Skip Sampson]

It's a fraternity whose organization replicates those of medieval craft guilds.

Don't forget that it's also a religious organization. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

So if the Mason's ministry is building up individuals, then that's perfectly valid if in fact that's what God has called them to do!

What 'God' are you referring to? Masons claim many different faiths.

I think it's more correct to say that Masons are primarily building up their own character, in line with whatever morality they adhere to. Cordially, Skip.