Do masons build?

[RomansFiveEight]

What 'God' are you referring to? Masons claim many different faiths.

I think it's more correct to say that Masons are primarily building up their own character, in line with whatever morality they adhere to. Cordially, Skip.

So you're saying that God is unable, too small, too weak to work in the hearts and minds of people who may or may not call on him to do so? I am speaking to the only true God. My God is big enough to work in the hearts of people who don't even know him. I hope and pray that one day you'll meet the One True God who is big enough to work there too. Instead, you seem to believe that only Satan has that power. Only Satan can convert the hearts of men. You are implying that if men come together in the name of any god, that Satan wins; and God won't. It hurts my heart to think that there are those who think so little of my God.

I think it's more correct to say that Masons may not be an organization that are devoted to the one true God, but the work that they do glorifies the one true God, whether they know it or not.

A group of men are coming together to better themselves, and to seek a higher power for their lives. That has one ultimate outcome, according to the scriptures.

"...Those who seek me, find me"
-Proverbs 8:17

"You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."
-Jeremiah 29:13

You're ignoring the statement that scripture came from Man (ultimately God, but the hands of man). This idea that we can learn from man who wrote the Bible (under the authority and calling of God) but not men/women who have done great things in the church; never contradicting scripture (under the authority and calling of God.) John Wesley isn't scripture, but he's a teacher of the scriptures we trust.

The Masons are not a replacement for anyones faith. I'm not even a Mason! But I'm defending them because I must reject this notion that if it isn't exclusively for the One True God, it's bad or harmful. Such thinking has kept the church locked inside it's walls for too long.

The way I see it, there are men of God on this forum who love God, the one true God, and preach his name. They also happen to be a member of an organization where a belief in a higher power is encouraged. That sounds like prime evangelistic real estate, to me.


Cordially, John.

 

[Simpleman25]

So you're saying that God is unable, too small, too weak to work in the hearts and minds of people who may or may not call on him to do so? I am speaking to the only true God. My God is big enough to work in the hearts of people who don't even know him. I hope and pray that one day you'll meet the One True God who is big enough to work there too. Instead, you seem to believe that only Satan has that power. Only Satan can convert the hearts of men. You are implying that if men come together in the name of any god, that Satan wins; and God won't. It hurts my heart to think that there are those who think so little of my God.

I think it's more correct to say that Masons may not be an organization that are devoted to the one true God, but the work that they do glorifies the one true God, whether they know it or not.

A group of men are coming together to better themselves, and to seek a higher power for their lives. That has one ultimate outcome, according to the scriptures.

"...Those who seek me, find me"
-Proverbs 8:17

"You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."
-Jeremiah 29:13

You're ignoring the statement that scripture came from Man (ultimately God, but the hands of man). This idea that we can learn from man who wrote the Bible (under the authority and calling of God) but not men/women who have done great things in the church; never contradicting scripture (under the authority and calling of God.) John Wesley isn't scripture, but he's a teacher of the scriptures we trust.

The Masons are not a replacement for anyones faith. I'm not even a Mason! But I'm defending them because I must reject this notion that if it isn't exclusively for the One True God, it's bad or harmful. Such thinking has kept the church locked inside it's walls for too long.

The way I see it, there are men of God on this forum who love God, the one true God, and preach his name. They also happen to be a member of an organization where a belief in a higher power is encouraged. That sounds like prime evangelistic real estate, to me.


Cordially, John.

Thank you John for seeing what is right in front of you! I've told numerous anti masons that if God is in my heart, nothing can take that away.

All the work I do in my life is done to the glory of the almighty. Whether in church or at the lodge, I carry the Lord with me.

 

[RomansFiveEight]

Thank you John for seeing what is right in front of you! I've told numerous anti masons that if God is in my heart, nothing can take that away.

All the work I do in my life is done to the glory of the almighty. Whether in church or at the lodge, I carry the Lord with me.

If the Masons told you that you should not believe in God, then I still wouldn't have a problem; that's the mission field. The world tells us, often, that we shouldn't believe in God. Should all Christians fly to mars then? Of course not. Though that would make some folks happen.

But they don't even do that! I don't have a universalist belief. That is to say, I don't believe that everyone goes to heaven or that all paths, whether Hindu or Islam or Christianity, lead to the same place (I do believe they are all seeking the same God however. God created them, his prevenient Grace is present in them; nobody can take that away) I do think God's grace can be offered to anyone who God so chooses to offer to them, and I do not claim to know how God judges others. BUT; I do know that Jesus is our Lord and Savior and the path through which we can find God. The Masons don't inhibit that belief, from what I understand.

Ultimately, it's this idea that if someone IS universalist, or an organization is not focused on God or is focused on an unnamed higher being, that God cannot work in them. I don't like "God cannot" statements. God can and does work through such organizations.

Heck; much of the church began in Rome when it was illegal to be a Christian! If the Christian church can form where it's illegal, than can the bonds of Christ not be formed in a society where it is tolerated along with others?

My God is not small.

 

[Skip Sampson]

What is scripture but the word of men?

So the Book of Mormon is scripture? Cordially, Skip.

 

[RomansFiveEight]

So the Book of Mormon is scripture? Cordially, Skip.

Again, the point is missed; and a far out in left field response is called.

No. ALL of what I said was, "Written by men, inspired by GOD"

God is the operator here. What you might not be aware of, is God inspired the writing of scriptures. But God did not, himself, write the scriptures. In fact, unlike Mormons and some other faiths, we do not believe God gave word-for-word all of the scriptures (though some, in some cases; such as the ten commandments). But rather, called on people to write what they saw, what they experienced, and what they knew.

Your claim was "You put your faith in men". It's ludacris. It's perfectly fine to look up to hero's of our faith in history and use their wisdom to help us grow in our faith. It's also ludacris because, in fact, men wrote the scriptures. The difference? They were inspired by God to do so. John Wesley was acting on the Holy Spirit and on the scriptures when he founded his societies. Not unliek various religious leaders through the centuries. Our faith is not in Wesley; it's in God. Wesley simply remains a hero and leader in our faith, someone who took seriously the call of the Holy Spirit to grow and better understand God.

 

[americanvet]

If the Masons told you that you should not believe in God, then I still wouldn't have a problem; that's the mission field. The world tells us, often, that we shouldn't believe in God. Should all Christians fly to mars then? Of course not. Though that would make some folks happen.

But they don't even do that! I don't have a universalist belief. That is to say, I don't believe that everyone goes to heaven or that all paths, whether Hindu or Islam or Christianity, lead to the same place (I do believe they are all seeking the same God however. God created them, his prevenient Grace is present in them; nobody can take that away) I do think God's grace can be offered to anyone who God so chooses to offer to them, and I do not claim to know how God judges others. BUT; I do know that Jesus is our Lord and Savior and the path through which we can find God. The Masons don't inhibit that belief, from what I understand.

Ultimately, it's this idea that if someone IS universalist, or an organization is not focused on God or is focused on an unnamed higher being, that God cannot work in them. I don't like "God cannot" statements. God can and does work through such organizations.

Heck; much of the church began in Rome when it was illegal to be a Christian! If the Christian church can form where it's illegal, than can the bonds of Christ not be formed in a society where it is tolerated along with others?

My God is not small.

 

[14messenger]

Thank you. And here's another thought that should occur to folks once in awhile.

IF all these bizarre claims against Masonry were true, it would also mean that every sincere Christian who joins--

What is so special that I'd want to join such a fearful group?

Light isn't made to be kept under a table.

While your busy saying he or she isn't worthy to be apart of it, Im standing firm and saying they're afraid to even come to the light.

While your interest is in pretending to be great, God is actually great and isn't afraid to shine the truth anywhere.

 

[Albion]

What is so special that I'd want to join such a fearful group?

I don't know what you think Masons are afraid of.

While your busy saying he or she isn't worthy to be apart of it,

I've never said that.

 

[smaneck]

As I noted: you put your faith in the word of men. Cordially, Skip.

Paul was a man.

CircuitRider was merely explaining what his denomination believes. This may come as a surprise to you, but Methodism has something to do with John and Charles Wesley.

 

[smaneck]

What makes you think they are not? I've seen several masonic fora where certain GLs are accused of racism because they have not recognized PH.

Well, for that matter I know plenty of churches, nearly all fundamentalists who are definitely racist. In fact, the church is still the most segregated institution in America.

What is your source for that claim? While you are researching, you'll find that a black man was elected president of the SBC in 2012, and that about 20% of SBC members are black.

I knew they recently elected a black man president. As for the figure of 20% being black, that isn't 20% of the membership being black, that is 20% of the church congregations being black. In other words, they still attend separate churches. But I will congratulate you on electing a black president. Now, when you elect a woman president I will *really* be impressed.

No, it was not like that at all. Freemasonry proclaimed the brotherhood of man for two centuries while not even letting black men in the door.

LOL. And the church proclaimed the brotherhood of man for two thousand years while practicing slavery.

 

[LilLamb219]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has undergone a Clean Up.

I've removed posts that flame and have gone off topic as well as the posts that responded.

Please do not call members troll or insinuate that groups of people are racists. Don't make posts personal. Address the topic and do not go off on tangents or the thread will be closed permanently.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[DarylFawcett]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has undergone another Clean Up.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[Skip Sampson]

So, perhaps we can get some of our Masons to discuss the 'Spiritual Temple' I noted in my post #98. It's seems a rich issue, given the thread title, so one assumes they would be happy to discuss it. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

So, perhaps we can get some of our Masons to discuss the 'Spiritual Temple' I noted in my post #98. It's seems a rich issue, given the thread title, so one assumes they would be happy to discuss it. Cordially, Skip.

I can't and won't speak for the masons here.

I will say that I believe they are all tired of your silly antics. How I can say the sky is blue, yet you will twist that to say something else.

You're not cordial nor are you able to discuss masonry openly or honestly.

 

[Skip Sampson]

You're not cordial nor are you able to discuss masonry openly or honestly.

How would you know since you refuse to do so?

Quite simply, Masons will not discuss what the key doctrines really are, mainly because they don't want the truth known. That's why you have me around, to remind you of the things you should be talking about, and to answer the questions you dare not respond to. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Simpleman25]

How would you know since you refuse to do so?

Quite simply, Masons will not discuss what the key doctrines really are, mainly because they don't want the truth known. That's why you have me around, to remind you of the things you should be talking about, and to answer the questions you dare not respond to. Cordially, Skip.

"They don't want the truth known"

Sounds more like a conspiracy theory there. Have you gone that far over the edge now?

Many masons on this site and on others have tried discussing with you. We give you facts based on real life experiences. Yet you refuse to accept them. How is that our issue?

 

[CounselorForChrist]

I didn't realize some people think Masons are a myth. We have 2 or 3 mason lodges around here where they meet. They are at various levels and in short our friend who is one says they are just skilled builders that get together like any club (word they used) does. Like the Lions Club, Rotary Club...etc. Theres my mystical secret skull and bones things going on.

 

[Skip Sampson]

"They don't want the truth known"

Sounds more like a conspiracy theory there. Have you gone that far over the edge now?

Rest assured, no conspiracy theories, just noting a fact. The very fact that no Mason on this thread will discuss the implications of the Spiritual Temple highlights the truth of my contention.

Many masons on this site and on others have tried discussing with you. We give you facts based on real life experiences. Yet you refuse to accept them. How is that our issue?

I think you over-inflate the responses I've received. Most of what I've seen from Masons herein are of the "You are wrong but we're not telling you why" variety. You, yourself, have contributed little, if anything, to the discussion.

When you were made a Mason, you were placed in the northeast corner of your lodge and declared to be an upright Mason before man and God and told that you were on your way to build your moral and Masonic edifice. The SC GL puts it this way:

... the candidate becomes as one who to all outward appearances a perfect and upright man and Mason, the representative of a spiritual cornerstone, on which he is to erect his future moral and Masonic edifice. ... The Speculative Mason is engaged in the construction of a spiritual temple in his heart, pure and spotless, fit for the dwelling place of Him who is the author of purity; where God is to be worshiped in spirit and in truth, and whence every evil thought and unruly passion are to be banished, as the sinner and the Gentile were excluded from the sanctuary of the Jewish Temple. ... we present the candidate with the apron, the gauge and the gavel, as symbols, of a spiritual purification. (Ahiman Rezon, pg. 78 - 80)

I've noted before that the EA degree is seen as making the candidate spiritually pure so that his temple can be properly constructed. The SC GL is very clear about that.

But you don't want to talk about that in public. Nor do your running mates, who would rather complain in private fora. Ok, so be it; but don't complain that others like me will present such facts and back them up by authoritative documentation so that others can see what you are actually taught in the lodgeroom.

The nice thing about an open forum is that anyone is allowed to express their views and back them up as needed. Anyone else can point out the errors in such posts and just as factually note why the information presented is wrong. You guys choose not to do so, for the obvious reason. As I've noted, you can criticize all you wish, but if you do not present a credible counter-argument, my views can be considered to be correct, especially as they are backed up by several Grand Lodges. Cordially, Skip.

 

[pyramid33]

I heard that in order to become a mason, an initiate mason must swear an oath. Christ says don't swear oaths in Matthew 5:34-36.

 

[Albion]

I heard that in order to become a mason, an initiate mason must swear an oath. Christ says don't swear oaths in Matthew 5:34-36.

Have you never been in court, become a naturalized citizen, joined the army, or such...because they all require the very same thing?

I don't know any of my Christian fellows who felt compromised when they did it then. Could the churches, pastors, and theologians who tell us that the verse means something else be right about that? This would be an interesting subject for you to research further, don't you think?