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How Creationism hurts Christian Colleges

hedrick

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I am sympathetic with the discussion in the first few pages. There are certainly young people who are turned off by conservative Christianity. (If you look at the points listed by Barna, they are basically the distinguishing characteristics of Christian conservatism.) I agree with them in this.

However it’s pretty clear that liberal Christianity is having the same problem keeping its young people. I’m all for people accepting science and critical scholarship, but that’s not likely to solve the problem of retaining young people.

I don’t have a real solution. My feeling is that the issue is actually that today it doesn’t look like Christianity matters. During the medieval period, people were quite clear why they should be Christians: If they weren’t they’d burn in hell forever. Conservative Christians still claim to believe that, but I don’t think they believe it enough for it to affect their behavior. So people are no longer part of the Church to save themselves.

I grew up in the post-WW II period. In that period churches were booming because it’s what middle class Americans did. it was part of the whole culture that everyone wanted to be part of. But that’s past too (and the churches that benefited by those people are now increasingly empty).

I think the real issue is finding a purpose for the Church that matters to people. I doubt the old purposes will come back. For being part of a Church to matter, it’s got to make life better. Not better in theory (i.e. better in the sense that it complies with God’s will), or better in the afterlife (I doubt those fears will come back as major motivators) but better so that it actually attracts people who aren’t in the Church. If you believe Stark and various other writers, that was the reason the early Church grew. Christians actually supported each other much more than the general Roman culture did, and being a Christian led to a better (and longer) life.

I’m not sure how many of our churches are up to being judged that way.
 
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Sayre

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I am sympathetic with the discussion in the first few pages. There are certainly young people who are turned off by conservative Christianity. (If you look at the points listed by Barna, they are basically the distinguishing characteristics of Christian conservatism.) I agree with them in this.

However it’s pretty clear that liberal Christianity is having the same problem keeping its young people. I’m all for people accepting science and critical scholarship, but that’s not likely to solve the problem of retaining young people.

I don’t have a real solution. My feeling is that the issue is actually that today it doesn’t look like Christianity matters. During the medieval period, people were quite clear why they should be Christians: If they weren’t they’d burn in hell forever. Conservative Christians still claim to believe that, but I don’t think they believe it enough for it to affect their behavior. So people are no longer part of the Church to save themselves.

I grew up in the post-WW II period. In that period churches were booming because it’s what middle class Americans did. it was part of the whole culture that everyone wanted to be part of. But that’s past too (and the churches that benefited by those people are now increasingly empty).

I think the real issue is finding a purpose for the Church that matters to people. I doubt the old purposes will come back. For being part of a Church to matter, it’s got to make life better. Not better in theory (i.e. better in the sense that it complies with God’s will), or better in the afterlife (I doubt those fears will come back as major motivators) but better so that it actually attracts people who aren’t in the Church. If you believe Stark and various other writers, that was the reason the early Church grew. Christians actually supported each other much more than the general Roman culture did, and being a Christian led to a better (and longer) life.

I’m not sure how many of our churches are up to being judged that way.

Beautiful post :thumbsup:. So we are going to have to see some love Monday to Saturday, some concern for the sick, the widows, the poor etc. A community, because the secular society and modern family doesn't provide it anymore.
 
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hedrick

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Beautiful post :thumbsup:. So we are going to have to see some love Monday to Saturday, some concern for the sick, the widows, the poor etc. A community, because the secular society and modern family doesn't provide it anymore.

Yes. That's my reading. I do agree that there's no real secular equivalent o fthe Christian community.
 
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juvenissun

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I am sympathetic with the discussion in the first few pages. There are certainly young people who are turned off by conservative Christianity. (If you look at the points listed by Barna, they are basically the distinguishing characteristics of Christian conservatism.) I agree with them in this.

However it’s pretty clear that liberal Christianity is having the same problem keeping its young people. I’m all for people accepting science and critical scholarship, but that’s not likely to solve the problem of retaining young people.

I don’t have a real solution. My feeling is that the issue is actually that today it doesn’t look like Christianity matters. During the medieval period, people were quite clear why they should be Christians: If they weren’t they’d burn in hell forever. Conservative Christians still claim to believe that, but I don’t think they believe it enough for it to affect their behavior. So people are no longer part of the Church to save themselves.

I grew up in the post-WW II period. In that period churches were booming because it’s what middle class Americans did. it was part of the whole culture that everyone wanted to be part of. But that’s past too (and the churches that benefited by those people are now increasingly empty).

I think the real issue is finding a purpose for the Church that matters to people. I doubt the old purposes will come back. For being part of a Church to matter, it’s got to make life better. Not better in theory (i.e. better in the sense that it complies with God’s will), or better in the afterlife (I doubt those fears will come back as major motivators) but better so that it actually attracts people who aren’t in the Church. If you believe Stark and various other writers, that was the reason the early Church grew. Christians actually supported each other much more than the general Roman culture did, and being a Christian led to a better (and longer) life.

I’m not sure how many of our churches are up to being judged that way.

When the society is not in poverty, church does not need to be richer than average. Church should not try to fit the society. The opposite should be true. Everything grows and shrinks include churches and congregations. The essence (nature) of a church should not change.

Hate to see youngsters in church go away due to the ignorance of science? Then teach them well in church when they are still in high school. The science education in church is, unfortunately, very very very poor. I have no chance to teach young people about sciences in my church. I do teach adults in church about sciences. But their faith is already strong enough and do not need the knowledge.
 
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hedrick

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When the society is not in poverty, church does not need to be richer than average. Church should not try to fit the society. The opposite should be true. Everything grows and shrinks include churches and congregations. The essence (nature) of a church should not change.

Hate to see youngsters in church go away due to the ignorance of science? Then teach them well in church when they are still in high school. The science education in church is, unfortunately, very very very poor. I have no chance to teach young people about sciences in my church. I do teach adults in church about sciences. But their faith is already strong enough and do not need the knowledge.

I don't have the problem described in the OP. I'm in a PCUSA church. Science isn't a problem for us. I don't normally consider it my job to teach science in Sunday School, though I do a little bit of cosmology, and one year I taught basics of evolution.

My problem is the other one, that I don't think my kids really know why Jesus or the Church matters. They understand that Jesus taught us to care about other people, but I don't think they quite understand how Christian fellowship differs from other things in the culture. That may require adult experience, though we try in our youth group.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Are you an evolutionist? If yes, this question one of the best for you.

You do realize that, even though I am atheist, I would like to remind you that being and evolutionist is not the same as being an atheist, in fact, there are more Christian evolutionists in the world than atheist ones.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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Um ... okay.

In the meantime, I believe evolution is going to wax stronger and stronger until Jesus comes.

Is that okay with you?

You can say it if you want but it's a silly statement that means as much as saying gravity will wax stronger and stronger until jesus comes. Like gravity, evolution just is.

Put it this way, if all knowledge were lost and mankind had to start again from scratch, eventually people would rediscover the theory of evolution, but christianity would be gone forever.
 
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AV1611VET

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You can say it if you want but it's a silly statement that means as much as saying gravity will wax stronger and stronger until jesus comes. Like gravity, evolution just is.
Poor analogy, in my opinion.

Gravity is constant -- evolution grows stronger as time progresses.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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Poor analogy, in my opinion.

Gravity is constant -- evolution grows stronger as time progresses.

No it doesn't. Your opinion is completely wrong. If you had a grasp of evolution rather than just a couple of soundbites you trot out that are meaningless to you, you would understand that.
 
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biggles53

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No it doesn't. Your opinion is completely wrong. If you had a grasp of evolution rather than just a couple of soundbites you trot out that are meaningless to you, you would understand that.

And he's wrong about gravity too....the theory has undergone significant 'improvement' over the last century....
 
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AV1611VET

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No it doesn't. Your opinion is completely wrong. If you had a grasp of evolution rather than just a couple of soundbites you trot out that are meaningless to you, you would understand that.
Oh ... so evolution is still back in the days of Darwin?

The Preservation of Favoured Races is still your bible?

No knew bells and whistles since then?

Nothing classified, codified or clarified in the past two hundred years?
 
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Mr Strawberry

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Oh ... so evolution is still back in the days of Darwin?

The Preservation of Favoured Races is still your bible?

No knew bells and whistles since then?

Nothing classified, codified or clarified in the past two hundred years?

So what you mean is that refining the theory will continue and in your opinion gather pace? Well, yes, it will continue, just as refining the theory of gravity will continue, that is what scientists do: they shake and rattle their theories in an attempt to break them. Predicting the pace of those refinements is rather difficult though. If that is what you were driving at with your original statement that "evolution will wax stronger and stronger until jesus comes" then you stated it very poorly.

But the fact of evolution won't change just as the fact of gravity or the fact of atoms won't change. That is why, if all knowledge and human records were lost, the theories of evolution and gravity and relativity and all the rest of science would eventually be rediscovered, but christianity would be gone forever.
 
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AV1611VET

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If that is what you were driving at with your original statement that "evolution will wax stronger and stronger until jesus comes" then you stated it very poorly.
Maybe for you.

Others get it though.
That is why, if all knowledge and human records were lost,
Wishful thinking on your part?

Reality on ours.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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Maybe for you.

Others get it though.

It turned out there wasn't anything to get.

Wishful thinking on your part?

Reality on ours.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

No, looks like wishful thinking on your part actually, which would be you scurrying back to your dreamworld as fast as possible.
 
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