How Creationism hurts Christian Colleges

[essentialsaltes]

and their students.

Article

Unfortunately, many evangelicals get their ideas about origins from Answers in Genesis and the Discovery Institute, or from pastors who have reflexive anti-science worldviews. As a result they come to college believing that evolution is false and without meaningful evidence to support it;
...
As students learn science, they discover that they have been misled by their religious upbringing. They discover that evolution is not tottering and about to collapse; the Big Bang is not an unfounded speculation; the earth is clearly very old; Noah’s flood can’t possibly have been worldwide; and the scientific community is not filled with secularist lemmings. The result is an intellectual crisis and many young Christians simply walk away from their faith with a feeling of betrayal.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Sounds more like colleges hurt creationism

 

[Loudmouth]

and their students.

Article

This is a chorus being sung by many christian scientists.

"The tragedy of young-earth creationism is that it takes a relatively recent and extreme view of Genesis, applies to it an unjustified scientific gloss, and then asks sincere and well-meaning seekers to swallow this whole, despite the
massive discordance with decades of scientific evidence from multiple disciplines. Is it any wonder that many sadly turn away from faith concluding that they cannot believe in a God who asks for an abandonment of logic and reason?"--Dr. Francis Collins, "Faith and the Human Genome"
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2003/PSCF9-03Collins.pdf

 

[Dizredux]

This is one my great concerns. I fear that Young Earth Creationism (YEC) is harming Christianity in the long run.

What do I mean by that? I will give my own example. Around the age of 13, 14, 15 or so my brain was developed enough to become interested in religion. When I started reading, I discovered that I had been lied to consistently, deliberately and without conscience.

By by late teens, I had almost lost my faith. There were several reasons but the primary one was "Why did these people whom I trusted lie to me? Perhaps they are lying about all of Christianity." I never lost the pull of faith but, at that time, did not want to be a Christian if dishonesty was at the core of it.

It was not until later when I saw people quietly and with honesty going about their lives trying to live according to the teachings of Christ that I saw another way was possible.



There is, I feel a real problem here for the future of Christianity. I have talked to and read of so many that have lost their faith when they discover the dishonesty coming from their church. The Southern Baptist Convention reports a study conducted in 2002 which found that 88% of all children are leaving the church permanently and not returning.

Southern Baptist Convention - 2002 SBC Annual Meeting Newsroom. (This is one site but there are others so you can verify that I am accurately reporting this.)


The Barna Group (a well respected Christan based survey company) reported six reasons young Christians were leaving their church.

Reason #1 – Churches seem overprotective.
Reason #2 – Teens’ and twentysomethings’ experience of Christianity is shallow.
Reason #3 – Churches come across as antagonistic to science
Reason #4 – Young Christians’ church experiences related to sexuality are often simplistic, judgmental.
Reason #5 – They wrestle with the exclusive nature of Christianity.
Reason #6 – The church feels unfriendly to those who doubt.

https://www.barna.org/teens-next-gen-articles/528-six-reasons-young-christians-leave-church

This fits in with my experience. I have managed to regain my faith but do not go to church because I don't want to lose the faith that I have worked so hard to regain.

This is a subject of very much interest to me and is one of the reasons I came here. I just bought the book (You Lost Me) mentioned in the article. It should be interesting.

I don't like to see young people's faith destroyed when there is no need.

I will probably be writing on this more but this is enough for now. Essentialsaltes thanks for bringing it up.

Dizredux

 

[46AND2]

This is one my great concerns. I fear that YEC is harming Christianity in the long run.

What do I mean by that. I will give my own example. Around the age of 13, 14, 15 or so my brain was developed enough to become interest in religion. When I started reading, I discovered that I had been lied to consistently, deliberately and without conscience.

By by late teens, I had almost lost my faith. There were several reasons but the primary one was "Why did these people whom I trusted lie to me? Perhaps they are lying about all of Christianity." I never lost the pull of faith but, at that time, did not want to be a Christian if dishonesty was at the core of it.

It was not until later when I saw people quietly and with honesty going about their lives trying to live according to the teachings of Christ that I saw another way was possible.



There is, I feel a real problem here for the future of Christianity. I have talked to and read of so many that have lost their faith when they discover the bad faith coming from their church. The Southern Baptist Convention reports a SBC study conducted in 2002. The study found that 88% of all children are leaving the church permanently and not returning.

Southern Baptist Convention - 2002 SBC Annual Meeting Newsroom. (This is one site but there are others reporting this.)


The Barna group (a well respected Christan based survey company) reported six reasons young Christians were leaving their church.

Reason #1 – Churches seem overprotective.
Reason #2 – Teens’ and twentysomethings’ experience of Christianity is shallow.
Reason #3 – Churches come across as antagonistic to science
Reason #4 – Young Christians’ church experiences related to sexuality are often simplistic, judgmental.
Reason #5 – They wrestle with the exclusive nature of Christianity.
Reason #6 – The church feels unfriendly to those who doubt.

https://www.barna.org/teens-next-gen-articles/528-six-reasons-young-christians-leave-church

This fits in with my experience. I have managed to regain my faith but do not go to church because I don't want to lose that faith.

This is a subject of very much interest to me and is one of the reasons I came here. I just bought the book (You Lost Me) mentioned in the article.

I don't like to see young people's faith destroyed when there is no need.

I will probably be writing on this more but this is enough for now. Essentialsaltes thanks for bringing it up.

Dizredux

I agree with everything you just said. Believe it or not, I do not want Christians to lose their faith. It sucks. It's turmoil. At least, it was for me. I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

I believe a more liberal Christian ideology could be good for society. It could have the social and spiritual benefits that some people need, without the judgmental attitudes and divisive holier-than-thou opinions that are so prevalent in churches today.

The "love the sinner, hate the sin" mentality sounds great, but there are SO few Christians these days who can truly practice it.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I have experienced number 6 first hand

 

[USincognito]

You've got to check out Olavsky's piece in World (the impetus for Gilbertson writing the post in the OP), not for his thoughts, but for the comments. They, ironically, are full of the same scientific illiteracy buttressing a strict literalist interpretation of Genesis that Gilbertson is decrying.
WORLD | ‘Most evangelical colleges teach evolution’ | Marvin Olasky | Feb. 4, 2014

 

[Strathos]

This is very true. Teaching deliberate lies and distortions of evidence you know are wrong is not going to help you once people find out the truth. Then they'll start to think you were lying about everything else you said too.

Unfortunately it seems that many creationists' groups response to this problem is not to cut back on their lies, but to try to make sure their students never go to college.

 

[SkyWriting]

and their students.

Article

I would expect such an article to provide some research into the
situation. Because it has none, then the article is not attempting
to actually measure the extent of the problem.

Without an attempt at providing facts, it's just another sermon.

 

[SkyWriting]

This is very true. Teaching deliberate lies and distortions of evidence you know are wrong is not going to help you once people find out the truth. Then they'll start to think you were lying about everything else you said too.

Unfortunately it seems that many creationists' groups response to this problem is not to cut back on their lies, but to try to make sure their students never go to college.

I've never heard that at any YEC meetings or in print.

 

[MerlinJ]

I've never heard that at any YEC meetings or in print.

Yes, well doing so would be pretty devastating to their case. :o

 

[SkyWriting]

Yes, well doing so would be pretty devastating to their case.

So the claim against YEC groups has no basis then.

 

[Delphiki]

I would expect such an article to provide some research into the
situation. Because it has none, then the article is not attempting
to actually measure the extent of the problem.

Without an attempt at providing facts, it's just another sermon.

Yeah. Better keep preaching that flat earth and tiny dome universe, right?

 

[Dizredux]

Posted by Strathos

This is very true. Teaching deliberate lies and distortions of evidence you know are wrong is not going to help you once people find out the truth. Then they'll start to think you were lying about everything else you said too.

Unfortunately it seems that many creationists' groups response to this problem is not to cut back on their lies, but to try to make sure their students never go to college.

Posted by SkyWriting

I've never heard that at any YEC meetings or in print.

I have in several variations. During the discussion on the 2002 SBC survey, it was proposed by, as memory serves, a Baptist minister that the solution was to keep young Baptists away from secular universities. At the time, I remember thinking that was the battle we were fighting.

Why else do we have so many religious based schools and colleges that stress not teaching evolution? I have seen and heard many comments from parents wanting to keep their children away from exposure to evolution and similar science often with the stated reason being that they were afraid that their children would lose their faith and leave the church.

I have no doubt that many of these parents would prefer that their kids do not go to college rather than be exposed to a secular education. I do not judge them negatively on this as they are following their faith but have great concerns about some variations of this mindset when deliberate dishonesty is involved.

Just thoughts,

Dizredux

 

[MerlinJ]

So the claim against YEC groups has no basis then.

I,.. what? I was saying that admitting to lying to parishioners (?) in order to save their souls would be pretty bad for their credibility.

 

[selfinflikted]

Sounds more like colleges hurt creationism

Indeed, and religious beliefs in general I think. Though I was already having a crisis of faith when I entered college, the education I received there was the last nail in the coffin for my beliefs taking a dirt nap.

 

[Loudmouth]

A while back there was a post at Pharyngual written by a woman named Libby Anne entitled "Why I am an atheist". She spoke about how she was raised in an evangelical household that really pushed YEC. She knew the YEC arguments inside and out . . . then she went to college. It soon became apparent to her that she was sold a pack of lies, and this, in part, led to her atheism. You can read the post here:

Why I am an atheist – Libby Anne » Pharyngula

This may have been just another post at Pharyngula that was lost to history, but then things got interesting. Both Ken Ham and and Dr. Purdom over at AiG felt that they needed to comment on it. You can read their responses here:

Answers in Genesis and Libby’s Journey to Atheism | Dr. Georgia Purdom's Blog

Need More Than Just Exposure | Around the World with Ken Ham

In those responses is this gem:

"Libby doesn’t say whether she attended a Christian or secular college. Sadly, in the USA today there isn’t much difference between the two types of schools concerning Genesis—and even the authority of the Bible—as surveys in Already Compromised showed. Either way, she was challenged, fought for a while, and gave up. It’s difficult to say why, but she does seem to have some misunderstandings about Genesis and the Bible despite her exposure to creation apologetics."

Their responses are just jaw dropping. They don't get it. Instead of really facing the evidence, their responses boil down to "use the same arguments, and believe harder".

Libby Anne then responded to AiG, and exposes them for what they are:

Rebutting Ken Ham’s Response

 

[bhsmte]

This is very true. Teaching deliberate lies and distortions of evidence you know are wrong is not going to help you once people find out the truth. Then they'll start to think you were lying about everything else you said too.

Unfortunately it seems that many creationists' groups response to this problem is not to cut back on their lies, but to try to make sure their students never go to college.

Once you have dug a hole for yourself from telling lies, you have two choices; you can either admit the same, ask to be forgiven and get in touch with reality. Or, you have an individual need that is so reliant on the lies, that you have to keep digging the hole deeper with more lies.

It isn't difficult to tell who falls in which camp on these boards.

 

[SkyWriting]

Yeah. Better keep preaching that flat earth and tiny dome universe, right?

If that's your thing, go ahead.
Good luck with that.

 

[SkyWriting]

I,.. what? I was saying that admitting to lying to parishioners (?) in order to save their souls would be pretty bad for their credibility.

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