Do masons build?

[Simpleman25]

Who were they? Maybe they'll be kind enough to state the error I'm supposed to have made. Cordially, Skip.

They are free to if they do choose.

I can understand that's difficult for you to understand. With your cult leaders telling you how to respond per the playbook.

 

[Simpleman25]

Sorry about the lack of the quote - I was referring to structures have been built with certain geometric patterns.

Namely the Pentagram, which we find in Venus transits - on a map.

Maybe unknown to some or many members, or the lower ranks...

Seen it documented on History or Science channel, sorry about no references.

Something to consider in debating this I think...

Lower ranks? Good grief. More conspiracy hogwash.

 

[circuitrider]

Lower ranks? Good grief. More conspiracy hogwash.

Don't waste your electrons Simpleman. Once you have someone like Skip who has created an online ministry staking its claim in the anti-masonic and anti-cult business he has to continue to confirm the purpose for his ministry to exist. If he can't find cults he has to make them up. If he can't find facts that confirm he will make those up too.

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I just looked at the rituals for Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason. All of it is biblical-based and not one single mention of Lucifer or Baphomet or anything. No goat-sacrifices, no offering up of first-born, no trampling of crucifixes or eucharists, no naked-lady altars...

I feel really let-down by this. You anti-Masons need to do a better job with your nuttery.

 

[Skip Sampson]

In other words if I say that Skip's arguments shouldn't be taken seriously because he is a Fundamentalist, that would be ad hominem.

Not sure I'd fully agree with that. An ad hominem attack is one against a person's character, not his associations. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

If he can't find facts that confirm he will make those up too.

What 'fact' have I made up? I've certainly made many statements of fact in this thread; which ones do you think are untrue? Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I just looked at the rituals for Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason.

From what jurisdiction?

All of it is biblical-based

More of a biblical veneer, but you are right about its superficial appearance.

and not one single mention of Lucifer or Baphomet or anything. No goat-sacrifices, no offering up of first-born, no trampling of crucifixes or eucharists, no naked-lady altars...

Did you catch the semi-naked man, blind-folded with a rope around his neck? Or the guy hit on the forehead with a setting maul? Thought that would've caught your attention, were that your focus.

I feel really let-down by this.

You shouldn't be. The Masons on this forum claim that one cannot understand the ritual unless they have undergone it; thus, you have to undergo it to find out what's in it, so to speak. In their eyes, your comments have no validity. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Rationalt]

Did you catch the semi-naked man, blind-folded with a rope around his neck? Or the guy hit on the forehead with a setting maul? Thought that would've caught your attention, were that your focus.

I suppose that man would be dead . Are you suggesting some kind of human sacrifice ?.

 

[smaneck]

Not sure I'd fully agree with that. An ad hominem attack is one against a person's character, not his associations. Cordially, Skip.

No, guilt by association would also be ad hominem if used to discredit your position.

An ad homiem attack is the converse to an appeal to authority.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I suppose that man would be dead . Are you suggesting some kind of human sacrifice ?.

No, it's actually a tongue-in-cheek response. When a candidate for a degree is brought into the lodgeroom, he is hoodwinked (i.e., blindfolded), dressed in a garment that bares parts of his body and has a rope attached to him for both symbolic and practical reasons. Which parts of his body is bare and where the rope is attached depends on the degree, but it's around his neck in the Entered Apprentice degree. Nothing sexual is denoted by the dress, as long as the candidate is male. A woman might complain about having her breasts exposed in such a manner, but that is a problem for co-Masonry. Masonic ritual often mentions the 'breast,' but not in a way to titillate (so to speak) the candidate. Probably more a function of 18th century English.

The setting maul is used in the second part of the Master Mason degree where he is symbolically killed by a blow to the forehead. In that, he is acting out the role of the fictional Hiram Abif, who Masons describe as the chief architect of King Solomon's Temple. In actuality the maul is a padded one and the man is struck but lightly, and pushed back into a shroud which is held by other Master Masons. He is then made to act the part of a corpse until he is raised into his new Masonic life.

The only physical hazing I've ever heard about was in some Prince Hall military lodges, where it is accepted as the price of admission for some PH Masons, an indicator of how much the man really wants to be a Mason. I don't get the feeling it's widespread, nor have I ever heard it practiced by regular Masons. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Rationalt]

even if it is true,looks like a harmless practice.

Now, is there something you are objecting to ?.

 

[circuitrider]

What 'fact' have I made up? I've certainly made mmany statements of fact in this thread; which ones do you think are untrue? Cordially, Skip.

Skip, your erroneous assertions are legion. I'm encouraging people not to engage in discussions with professional anti-masons. I have no intention of argue with you myself.

Your world view and theological backgrounds are so far removed from mine that we almost don't have a common theological language. You are a "true believer" in all this anti-Masonic stuff. I've learned over the years that you can't argue people out of faith positions even when based on error filled baloney because it has become a part of your entire view of faith, Christianity, and the world.

Only God can bring about a major shift which might cause you to change you mind. I'll let the Almighty work on that and I'll let you get back to recruiting new Masons for the Craft.

The truth is that your anti-masonic musings help recruitment. Men check out your ideas, find Freemasonry, and then end up becoming Masons.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Now, is there something you are objecting to ?.

I could make you a list. Might be easier if you just searched on my name. Cordially, Skip.

 

[smaneck]

The truth is that your anti-masonic musings help recruitment. Men check out your ideas, find Freemasonry, and then end up becoming Masons.

I thought you had to be nominated for membership, that you just couldn't seek it. In fact, I thought you normally had be related to a Mason.

 

[circuitrider]

I thought you had to be nominated for membership, that you just couldn't seek it. In fact, I thought you normally had be related to a Mason.

It depends by jurisdiction. In many jurisdictions you can only join if you yourself ask to join, no one will ever ask you.

However in Iowa we have means to invite someone to join by unanimous vote of a lodge. It is called "invitation to petition." It is a fairly new practice.

You do not have to be related to a Mason to become a Mason. You may be thinking of the Eastern Star where you either have to be a Mason or a female relative of a Mason to join. Though I think the rules there may be being modified as well. I'm not an Eastern Star member so I don't follow them as closely.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Skip, your erroneous assertions are legion.

But none you'd care to specify. Got it.

Men check out your ideas, find Freemasonry, and then end up becoming Masons.

Such as? Maybe such a man would tell us how it worked in his case. Cordially, Skip.

 

[americanvet]

The truth is that your anti-masonic musings help recruitment. Men check out your ideas, find Freemasonry, and then end up becoming Masons.

I was one of those people. When I started looking at Masonry after my grandfather passed away. I wanted to know what it was that my grandfather belonged to. I read the anti-websites. So many of the claims were just unbelievable. However, on the Masonic websites they seems to me much more down to earth and believable.

I joined and found that the Masons were being truthful. The other group was (and is) either misinformed or purposefully lying. However, I would rather each person come to their own conclusions regardless of what I or others have to say.

 

[circuitrider]

Skip, funny indeed. I've already said I don't want to play the game of arguing with you about your anti-masonic baloney and you just can't help trying to pull me into an argument anyway. What's the point?

Notice that we now have testimony from a Mason on this forum who became a Mason because of examining anti-masonry. You couldn't be a better recruitment tool if we paid you. Thanks for the help.

 

[smaneck]

Skip, your erroneous assertions are legion. I'm encouraging people not to engage in discussions with professional anti-masons. I have no intention of argue with you myself.<snip>

Only God can bring about a major shift which might cause you to change you mind. I'll let the Almighty work on that and I'll let you get back to recruiting new Masons for the Craft.

Okay, this is giving me a bit of the willies. That last paragraph makes the Mason's sound very much like a religion while your first paragraph sounds very much like a call to shun.

 

[circuitrider]

No, you are misunderstanding Smaneck. It isn't Freemasonry that is a religion that Skip has beliefs about. It is Skip's far right fundamentalism that is the religion that only the almighty can cure. I can't talk Skip out of his far right extremist fundamentalism, only God can.

Skip Sampson is a professional anti-Mason. He is well known to many Masons because he spends most of his time online arguing with Masons or those he can tell about his anti-masonic views. Refusing to argue with him isn't shunning. No one has the right to make you argue if you don't want to. If a Jehovah's Witness comes to my door and I turn them away without an argument I'm not shunning. I'm just refusing to waste my time and theirs.

Skip wants to argue with me and I don't. That is hardly a crime against Skip.