Why dont SDA's and Sabbath keepers also keep the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 too???

[from scratch]

It's all been posted several times before--but in Hebrews it is obvious that all rituals involving animal sacrifes were no longer applicable, they are old covenant--new covenant is Christ is the Sacrificial Lamb and also our High Priest (after the order of Mechizedek) Christ's priesthood is not of the Aaronic line, but of Melchizedek--the Aaronic priesthood were of mortal man, they died requiring many priests--the order of Melchizedek is of Divine, immortal appointment
(Gen 14:18) And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

(Psa 110:4) The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
(Heb 7:1) For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

(Heb 7:2) To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

(Heb 7:3) Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

To offer animal sacrifices after the cross is contrary to scripture--it denies Christs sacrifice. There were also other sacrifices that could be offered instead of an animal , and even those, then, were no longer needed.

As for the feast days--Pentecost was called the Feast of Weeks-celebrated fifty days after the Passover in memory of Moses receiving the laws on Mt. Sinai 50 days after leaving Egypt. That required bread offerings along with 7 lambs, 1 bullock, 2 rams...It's in Lev 23:15-22.
The disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day Pentecost, they were gathered together in one place, it doesn't state what day of the week it was. The sound of a mighty wind filled all the HOUSE--hardly a place in which to offer up all those animals. The day of Pentecost filled the city of Jerusalem with Jews from every nation--and when they heard about the disciples speaking in their own language "the multitude came together."--Perfect time and place to demonstrate the power of God.It does not state they were "keeping" that feast day, just that they were gathered together on that day at a house--not the temple. Bob Ryan also addressed this day.
Acts 20:16--Paul was hurrying to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost.--Paul liked to preach to to large gatherings--and even though he hasted to get to Jerusalem for the day of Pentecost, however, Acts 21:4 "And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days:who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem."---No mention that the Day of Pentecost was "kept" while at Tyre.

Passover and unleavened bread was discussed by Bob--And just a note--Passover (now called Communion) was celebrated without leavening--of any kind--which means that the "wine" could not be fermented--no yeast anywhere permitted.

Feast of Tabernacles: Acts 18--Paul spent 1 yr and 6 mths in Corinth and then he went to Syria with Priscilla and Aquila then he went to Ephesus and "reasoned with the Jews." They wanted him to stay longer, he said no no as he had to "keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem"--What feast??---it doesn't say. All his travels were documented for over 1 1/2 years and no mention of him keeping any feast, and no way to determine what feast he was trying to get to in Jerusalem or when that feast would be as he then went to Caesarea, Antioch (where he spent some time) then on to "all the country of Galatia and Phrygia in order, strengthening the disciples." And he keeps on going and in Acts 19 :10 it says this went on for 2 more years so all of Asia heard of Jesus--And still no mention of what feast he had wanted to be in Jerusalem for or that he made it there!

Acts 27:9--"the fast was now already passed."--That is the Day of Atonement--Yom Kipper--That day required animal sacrifices also--High priest went into the holy place with a bullock and ram- and 2 goats and a ram. The 2 goats were for the sins of the congregation--one goat was killed for the sins of the congregation, lots of blood going around to cleans the sins of the congregation, the sins of the high priest and to cleanse the sanctuary,n and then the priest laid his hands on the live goat and confessed all the sins of Israel putting them on the head of the goat and the goat was led out into the wilderness and let go. It was the highest of Holy Days, depicting the price that Jesus would pay to cleans us from sins and depicting the end of Satan--the goat who took the blame for the price of all those sins that Christ had to die for--the wilderness--the 1000 years when Satan is bound.
Now, all that Acts 27:9 says is that the day of atonement had already passed, placing this event (the voyage) in the winter-a time not suitable for the voyage and Paul warned that it would now be a voyage that would be very dangerous for cargo and ship and also for their lives, but nobody listened to him and they took off anyway--which proved as disasterous as Paul had predicted.

A couple Jewish authors of the Bible say the law is a single indivisible unit. Thus its shown that jots and titles of the law have change negating the stance taken from Mat 5.

 

[from scratch]

Historic Sunday keeping sources like

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson

do not make such an argument - because they know the Bible does not support it.

in fact they all argue that Sabbath started in Eden before any ceremonial law existed.



I can provide the quotes from the above for those interested.

in the actual Bible Adam is created on day 6 and then his first full day is day 7 - where God not only rests but "makes it holy" as He states in both Gen 2 and in Ex 20:11.

Adam keeps the day by not working in the Garden - rather he spends the day with God.

in Christ,

Bob

Please do so and I'll quote your formal debate with bugkiller again.

It can be found here for any interested party -

http://www.christianforums.com/t7680094/#post61167700

 

[from scratch]

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.

Why is it an issue if they do or don't celebrate any particular feast?

Because the weekly Sabbath is also a feast included in Lev 23. The weekly Sabbath also required animal sacrifice.

 

[from scratch]

have assumed or claimed these things.

It does not say that humans rested or were told to rest.

It does not say that humans were told to follow God’s example.

It does not say that God taught Adam and Eve on the Sabbath.

It does not say God created the Sabbath, or that humans kept it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

If that is the case, why is there so many threads on Christians being sinners and sun god worshipers because they go to church on Sunday.

Very simple.... the Law is condemning, but those in Christ are not condemned which shows that being under the Law and in Christ aren't the same thing. I would say those who choose to follow the Law are on conflict with following Christ because they condemn others when Christ in us shouldn't be doing so to believers.

Romans 8:1-4

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Deliverance from Bondage

8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life [a]in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, [b]weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of [c]sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[from scratch]

If that is the case, why is there so many threads on Christians being sinners and sun god worshipers because they go to church on Sunday.

But Read Rom 14 from beginning to end and you will see it is about vegetarianism and fasting from meats, which is more than likely referring to feast days when they fasted.


One thing to notice is the Sabbath is NOT being discussed here or in the entire book of Romans.
Romans 14

New King James Version (NKJV)

The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose[b] and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.[c] 11 For it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”[d]

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
The Law of Love

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things[e] is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.[f] 22 Do you have faith?[g] Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.[h]

Evangelization of those they don't consider Christians for conversion to their church religion.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Romans 5:15-17

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

15 But [a]the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16 The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression [b]resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions [c]resulting in justification. 17 For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

 

[from scratch]

Colossians 2:16-17, Galatians 4:10-11, Romans 14:5 are the most taken ut of context verses in the NT because no one read the verse before and after them as to why it leads to so much division.


I think the main issue I have been trying to get at to the SDA's and Sabbatarians are that if the Sabbath absolutely must be Saturday and cant be observed in any other way is that Lev 23 is still binding then because it lists all the Sabbaths God commands.

So if Christians are wrong for Sunday worship, they are wrong for not keeping the feast days because those were not abolished and I showed many examples of them still being kept, so if they want to follow the commands of God they need to follow Lev 23 too and stop being hypocrites.

I think the cause is unbelief and it interferes with their so called more truth.

 

[[serious]]

If that is the case, why is there so many threads on Christians being sinners and sun god worshipers because they go to church on Sunday.

But Read Rom 14 from beginning to end and you will see it is about vegetarianism and fasting from meats, which is more than likely referring to feast days when they fasted.


One thing to notice is the Sabbath is NOT being discussed here or in the entire book of Romans.
Romans 14

New King James Version (NKJV)

The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose[b] and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.[c] 11 For it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”[d]

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
The Law of Love

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things[e] is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.[f] 22 Do you have faith?[g] Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.[h]

Romans 14 also addresses dietary restrictions, but that doesn't make the holy day observance a discussion of dietary restrictions. He sums it up a few verses later. Let me go pull the quote:

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge ye this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock in his brother's way, or an occasion of falling.

14 I know, and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself: save that to him who accounteth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

It goes along with his writings in 1 Corinthians 6:12

All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.

If someone feels drinking alcohol is wrong, it is wrong for them to do so. If one feels drinking alcohol is fine, it is fine for him. However, one should be cautious of things that take on unnatural importance and exert unnatural influence on our decisions (addiction for example, or lusting after wealth). Also, if you are with one that would be tempted by the liberties you take, you should abstain for their sake.

 

[childofdust]

Leviticus is not part of the 10 commandments.

Picking and choosing at its finest. Have you not heard from the lips of the apostles that the one who breaks even one of the commandments of the Law is guilty of breaking them all (James 2:10)? If you wear clothing with two kinds of fiber in them, you have transgressed the Sabbath.

The 10 commandments (not suggestions)

Actually, what you refer to are not called "commandments" anywhere. The Hebrew word that is used is "debarim" meaning "things/words/matters/affairs." They are actually called "the 10 things" or "the 10 sayings" or the "10 words." They are not the 10 "commandments" at all.

Moreover, do you not know to whom they were given? Have you not read at the beginning of these "sayings" themselves that they were given to the descendants of Israel whom YHWH freed from slavery in Egypt?: " I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery" Unless your descendants were freed from slavery in Egypt, these "sayings" (not "commandments") were not given to you.

 

[mmksparbud]

A couple Jewish authors of the Bible say the law is a single indivisible unit. Thus its shown that jots and titles of the law have change negating the stance taken from Mat 5.

The above quote is the only one I am posting, but I am addressing other posts in my answer.

If you're going to quote me--at least read what I have written.---the question asked was why we no longer keep the feasts mentioned in Lev 23---I went through all those feasts that Paul supposedly kept with the verses mentioned as proof of his keeping them--It is also clear that all sacrifices are not part of the new covenent as stated in Hebrews. So what the sam hill is it you all want???--Matt 5 Christ says not one jot or title shall pass from the law till all be fulfilled--and He then goes on to talk about some of the 10 commandments and expanding them to make it clear that adultery is not just the act, but the thoughts. He nowhere mentions anything about continuing to sacrifice animals, he doesn't mention anything about keeping the feasts after His death (which, as a Jew, He kept when alive). The only thing He said is to continue to celebrate the drinking of the wine (which as I said was unfermented as no leavening in anything was allowed) and the eating of unleavened bread (representing His blood and body) and we include the washing of feet with that. Christ is now our High Priest, those verses have all been quoted. He now presents His blood to God to cover our sins--no animal, no human, can do this.
It's been stated that we can keep the feasts without animal sacrifices, but what is the point of that as those feasts required animal sacrifices and blood in order for them to be considered as being "kept." And what has Christmas or Easter got to do with anything about the feasts??--It's mentioned that we keep those---who said we "keep" those??---We say that nobody knows when Christ was born, decorating Christmas trees have nothing todo with His birth, bunnies and eggs have nothing to do with the resuurection of Christ (these are from firtility rites) so what is it you're wanting??--- The 10 commandments are the 10 commandments--10 laws, 10 sayings, whatever you want to call them and are the only ones that God wrote with His own hand and no one wants to consider that fact as of any importance. Fine for you---we do consider that fact important. And I already posted about that first Sabbath and nobody wants to accept that explaination--that's ok--don't accept it!! Doesn't alter what I stated one bit--nor does it alter the fact about all that Christ said in Matt 5. As someone said--The truth is true no matter what anyone thinks about it!!

 

[mmksparbud]

Colossians 2:16-17, Galatians 4:10-11, Romans 14:5 are the most taken ut of context verses in the NT because no one read the verse before and after them as to why it leads to so much division.


I think the main issue I have been trying to get at to the SDA's and Sabbatarians are that if the Sabbath absolutely must be Saturday and cant be observed in any other way is that Lev 23 is still binding then because it lists all the Sabbaths God commands.

So if Christians are wrong for Sunday worship, they are wrong for not keeping the feast days because those were not abolished and I showed many examples of them still being kept, so if they want to follow the commands of God they need to follow Lev 23 too and stop being hypocrites.

The question of Leviticus has been answered--if you do not want to understand that's ok--but if you're going to ask a question, at the very least you should have the manners to read our answers--or don't bother asking as that is hypocritical--or does that not fit you idea of hypocrite??

 

[BobRyan]

A couple Jewish authors of the Bible say the law is a single indivisible unit. .

1. The Baptist Confession of Faith - and the Westminster Confession of Faith say that the Law consists of come parts ceremonial, some civil and also the Moral Law which includes the TEN Commandments - as we have seen numerous times on these threads.

2. The is a NT bible writer that says that the 5th commandment is the FIRST commandment with a promise - only true in the Bible "unit of TEN" as we all know.

I think this has been pointed out a dozen times as well.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Colossians 2:16-17,

"Shadows of good things to come" -- ceremonial law.

Galatians 4:10-11,

Pagan systems that the pagans in Galatia were returning to after having been converted to Christianity.

Romans 14:5

Annual list of holy days in Lev 23.

I think the main issue I have been trying to get at to the SDA's and Sabbatarians are that if the Sabbath absolutely must be Saturday and cant be observed in any other way is that Lev 23 is still binding

An argument that fails when compared to the "Baptist Confession of Faith" - and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" -- both of which admit that the law is divided into "moral law" and "ceremonial law".

They provide no room for 'if you can't break the moral law regarding God's memorial of creation then you have to keep the ceremonial laws'.

I don't understand where you are getting that idea.

So if Christians are wrong for Sunday worship, they are wrong for not keeping the feast days

There again I find your logic illusive - because in Heb 10 we are told - that the sacrifices and offerings ended - which still leaves us with the Gen 2:1-3 Moral law of the actual 4th commandment.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Please do so and I'll quote your formal debate with bugkiller again.

It can be found here for any interested party -

http://www.christianforums.com/t7680094/#post61167700

What is your point?

Am I supposed to have said something in our favor in that debate?

You seem to go silent when it comes to "making the point" of your post.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Sophrosyne]

I think the cause is unbelief and it interferes with their so called more truth.

Unbelief in the Apostle Paul, they have more belief in Charles Stanley and Moody and all those celebrities than Paul. The more you reject Paul the more you sink into bondage (slavery) to salvation mired in the Law.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 14 also addresses dietary restrictions, .

Romans 14 deals with "vegetarian" vs "meat eating" not with clean and unclean meat.

in Romans 14 and in 1Cor 8 and in 1Cor 10 the issue is the same as in Acts 15 - meat offered to idols and the gentiles who were fearing any contact with it.

The Jewish Christians simply ignored the problem of meat offered to idols. In this case as Paul points out in 1Cor 8 and 1Cor 10 - it is the gentile Christians who are "weak" and eating vegetables only.

Context is everything.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why don't SDA's and Sabbath keepers also keep the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 too?

The fundamental reason is that their founding prophet did not demand it of them.

 

[BobRyan]

Actually, what you refer to are not called "commandments" anywhere. The Hebrew word that is used is "debarim" meaning "things/words/matters/affairs." They are actually called "the 10 things" or "the 10 sayings" or the "10 words."

The "ten words" but not in all places. Still I like that "He spoke these TEN WORDS ... and ADDED No MORE".

No wonder they are considered the "UNIT of TEN" and called in the Bible "the TEN Commandments".

Mark 7 they are the "Commandments of God" and also called the "Word of God".

[FONT=&quot]Mark 7[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
6 And He said to them, ""Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: " THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7 " BUT [/FONT][FONT=&quot]IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'
8 ""Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.''[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
9 He was also saying to them, ""You are experts at setting aside [/FONT][FONT=&quot]the commandment of God[/FONT][FONT=&quot]in order to keep your tradition[/FONT][FONT=&quot].
10 ""For Moses said, " HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'[/FONT][FONT=&quot];(Exodus 20:12) and, " HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
11 but you say, "If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),'
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.''[/FONT]


Ex 34:28
[FONT=&quot]So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. [ Literally Ten Words]

[/FONT]
Deuteronomy 4:13[FONT=&quot]
"So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

[/FONT]
Deuteronomy 10:4
"He wrote on the tablets, like the former writing, the Ten Commandments which the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me.


Deut 5
19 " You shall not steal.
20 " You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
21 " You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, and you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field or his male servant or his female servant, his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.'

Deut 5
22 ""These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain from the midst of the fire, of the cloud and of the thick gloom, with a great voice, and He added no more. He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

They are not the 10 "commandments" at all.

Until you read the actual Bible.

No wonder the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" are so quick to admit to the Bible TEN Commandments being applicable to the saints of God from Eden to this very day!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Why don't SDA's and Sabbath keepers also keep the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 too?

Because we read Hebrews 10.

And so like the Baptist Confession of Faith - and the Westminster Confession of Faith, and D.L. Moody, and Andy Stanley and R.C Sproul and even the RCC - we admit to the continued authority of the TEN Commandments but not the ceremonial law that ends according to Hebrews 10.

So then - just the obvious.

in Christ,

Bob