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Why dont SDA's and Sabbath keepers also keep the Feast Days of Leviticus 23 too???

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BobRyan

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All Genesis 2:3 is saying is God was finished with his works. He no where after that said it was a command. That command doesnt even come about until exodus.

God said "THEREFORE the Lord BLESSED and made it holy" in both Gen 2:3 AND in Ex 20:11 speaking of Genesis 3.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith notices this -- and declares that from EDEN to the cross the SAME Day of the week is kept as the 4th commandment by God's people starting with Adam.

Moody argues that The Sabbath was kept in Eden as well.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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The 10 commandments are just 10 of the 613 commands God gave.

And ten out of 1050 given in the NT.

. SO if you are going to push Saturday sabbath, you might and well be obedient and do the rest of them from Lev 23 since you want to follow his commands.
Historic Sunday keeping sources like

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson


do not make such an argument - because they know the Bible does not support it.

in fact they all argue that Sabbath started in Eden before any ceremonial law existed.

You might as well be arguing that if we are going to Honor God's statement on Marriage in Gen 2 then we need to keep the feast of first fruits as well. Hebrews 10 ends sacrifices and offerings but not Marriage or Sabbath - both of which are created in Genesis 2.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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God said "THEREFORE the Lord BLESSED and made it holy" in both Gen 2:3 AND in Ex 20:11 speaking of Genesis 3.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith notices this -- and declares that from EDEN to the cross the SAME Day of the week is kept as the 4th commandment by God's people starting with Adam.

Moody argues that The Sabbath was kept in Eden as well.

in Christ,

Bob
How was the sabbath kept in Eden? :confused:


.
 
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mmksparbud

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It's all been posted several times before--but in Hebrews it is obvious that all rituals involving animal sacrifes were no longer applicable, they are old covenant--new covenant is Christ is the Sacrificial Lamb and also our High Priest (after the order of Mechizedek) Christ's priesthood is not of the Aaronic line, but of Melchizedek--the Aaronic priesthood were of mortal man, they died requiring many priests--the order of Melchizedek is of Divine, immortal appointment
(Gen 14:18) And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

(Psa 110:4) The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
(Heb 7:1) For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;

(Heb 7:2) To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

(Heb 7:3) Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

To offer animal sacrifices after the cross is contrary to scripture--it denies Christs sacrifice. There were also other sacrifices that could be offered instead of an animal , and even those, then, were no longer needed.

As for the feast days--Pentecost was called the Feast of Weeks-celebrated fifty days after the Passover in memory of Moses receiving the laws on Mt. Sinai 50 days after leaving Egypt. That required bread offerings along with 7 lambs, 1 bullock, 2 rams...It's in Lev 23:15-22.
The disciples received the Holy Spirit on the day Pentecost, they were gathered together in one place, it doesn't state what day of the week it was. The sound of a mighty wind filled all the HOUSE--hardly a place in which to offer up all those animals. The day of Pentecost filled the city of Jerusalem with Jews from every nation--and when they heard about the disciples speaking in their own language "the multitude came together."--Perfect time and place to demonstrate the power of God.It does not state they were "keeping" that feast day, just that they were gathered together on that day at a house--not the temple. Bob Ryan also addressed this day.
Acts 20:16--Paul was hurrying to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost.--Paul liked to preach to to large gatherings--and even though he hasted to get to Jerusalem for the day of Pentecost, however, Acts 21:4 "And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days:who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem."---No mention that the Day of Pentecost was "kept" while at Tyre.

Passover and unleavened bread was discussed by Bob--And just a note--Passover (now called Communion) was celebrated without leavening--of any kind--which means that the "wine" could not be fermented--no yeast anywhere permitted.

Feast of Tabernacles: Acts 18--Paul spent 1 yr and 6 mths in Corinth and then he went to Syria with Priscilla and Aquila then he went to Ephesus and "reasoned with the Jews." They wanted him to stay longer, he said no no as he had to "keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem"--What feast??---it doesn't say. All his travels were documented for over 1 1/2 years and no mention of him keeping any feast, and no way to determine what feast he was trying to get to in Jerusalem or when that feast would be as he then went to Caesarea, Antioch (where he spent some time) then on to "all the country of Galatia and Phrygia in order, strengthening the disciples." And he keeps on going and in Acts 19 :10 it says this went on for 2 more years so all of Asia heard of Jesus--And still no mention of what feast he had wanted to be in Jerusalem for or that he made it there!

Acts 27:9--"the fast was now already passed."--That is the Day of Atonement--Yom Kipper--That day required animal sacrifices also--High priest went into the holy place with a bullock and ram- and 2 goats and a ram. The 2 goats were for the sins of the congregation--one goat was killed for the sins of the congregation, lots of blood going around to cleans the sins of the congregation, the sins of the high priest and to cleanse the sanctuary,n and then the priest laid his hands on the live goat and confessed all the sins of Israel putting them on the head of the goat and the goat was led out into the wilderness and let go. It was the highest of Holy Days, depicting the price that Jesus would pay to cleans us from sins and depicting the end of Satan--the goat who took the blame for the price of all those sins that Christ had to die for--the wilderness--the 1000 years when Satan is bound.
Now, all that Acts 27:9 says is that the day of atonement had already passed, placing this event (the voyage) in the winter-a time not suitable for the voyage and Paul warned that it would now be a voyage that would be very dangerous for cargo and ship and also for their lives, but nobody listened to him and they took off anyway--which proved as disasterous as Paul had predicted.
 
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BobRyan

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Historic Sunday keeping sources like

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson


do not make such an argument - because they know the Bible does not support it.

in fact they all argue that Sabbath started in Eden before any ceremonial law existed.

How was the sabbath kept in Eden? :confused:
.

I can provide the quotes from the above for those interested.

in the actual Bible Adam is created on day 6 and then his first full day is day 7 - where God not only rests but "makes it holy" as He states in both Gen 2 and in Ex 20:11.

Adam keeps the day by not working in the Garden - rather he spends the day with God.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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It's all been posted several times before--but in Hebrews it is obvious that all rituals involving animal sacrifes were no longer applicable, .

Agreed - that is the "easy part" and apparently even the sources listed - agree that the ceremonial animal-sacrifice laws ended.

I don't know why this is a confusing point to one or two others.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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SAAN

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Pretty much you are saying is animal sacrifices are no longer need, but these feasts can be done without the sacrifices. Im sure you keep Christmas and Easter without sacrifices, so since you follow Gods command so much, the Sabbaths in Lev 23 are just as valid as the Saturday Sabbath.

So if Sunday Church going Christians are sinning for not observing thew Saturday Sabbath, you are also sinning when you dont observe Gods feats days, because Lev 23 is a whole, not separated. And using Col 2:16 out of context will not help you either as the context of that chapter is not not let anyone in Colossians actually judge them for actually keeping the Sabbath and the Feats Days. ROmans 14 wont work as an excuse wither as it is about fasting and vegetarianism and tell them it doesnt matter which they they choose to fast from eating meat.


Remember you defined sin as transgression of the law and the Law is the Torah, so once again you are back to your sin is not as bad as the sunday Christians sin.
 
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So the Sabbath existed before the law.

Yes, it was included in the law, but again it existed before the law.

You can see the Sabbath in the law here:

Ex 20:8 "Remember the Sabbathhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/exodus/20.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-15 day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,http://www.biblestudytools.com/exodus/20.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-16 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbathhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/exodus/20.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-17 to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work,...(why?) 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth,http://www.biblestudytools.com/exodus/20.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-18 the sea, and all that is in them, but he restedhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/exodus/20.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-19 on the seventh day....

That last part is lifted right out of Genesis.
Nice alternate version avoiding a key word. There is still problems using the quoted with the words but and rested.
 
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SayaOtonashi

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Well than if you want to follow Mosaic Law than I hope you follow long the necessary things for you will be Judge accordingly.


In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. It is quite clear in those verses that the weekly Sabbath is in view. The phrase "a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar (cf. 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Ezekiel 45:17; Hosea 2:11). If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons.
The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.
The New Testament never commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.
In our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, the church met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).
Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentile nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal moral principle.
There is no evidence in the Bible of anyone keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands in the Bible to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mt. Sinai.
When the Apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15), they did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers.
The apostle Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but breaking the Sabbath was never one of them.
In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath).
In Romans 14:5, Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentile believers).
The early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship (contrary to the claim of many seventh-day sabbatarians who claim that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century).
Sunday has not replaced Saturday as the Sabbath. Rather the Lord's Day is a time when believers gather to commemorate His resurrection, which occurred on the first day of the week. Every day to the believer is one of Sabbath rest, since we have ceased from our spiritual labor and are resting in the salvation of the Lord (Hebrews 4:9-11).
 
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SayaOtonashi

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The early roots of the Lord’s Day are verified by the universal practice of the Lord’s Day in Gentile churches in the second century. It is not surprising that many Jewish Christians continued to observe the Sabbath as well. One segment of the Ebionites practiced the Lord’s Day and the Sabbath. Their observance of both is instructive, for it shows that the Lord’s Day was not viewed as the fulfillment of the Sabbath but as a separate day.

Most of the early church fathers did not practice or defend literal Sabbath observance (cf. Diognetus 4:1) but interpreted the Sabbath eschatologically and spiritually. They did not see the Lord’s Day as a replacement of the Sabbath but as a unique day. For instance, in the Epistle of Barnabas, the Sabbaths of Israel are contrasted with “the eighth day” (15:8), and the latter is described as “a beginning of another world.” Barnabas says that “we keep the eighth day” (which is Sunday), for it is “the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (15:9). The Lord’s Day was not viewed as a day in which believers abstained from work, as was the case with the Sabbath. Instead, it was a day in which most believers were required to work, but they took time in the day to meet together in order to worship the Lord. The contrast between the Sabbath and the Lord’s Day is clear in Ignatius, when he says, “If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death” (To the Magnesians 9:1). Ignatius, writing about A.D. 110, specifically contrasts the Sabbath with the Lord’s Day, showing that he did not believe the latter replaced the former. Bauckham argues that the idea that the Lord’s day replaced the Sabbath is post-Constantinian. Luther saw rest as necessary but did not tie it to Sunday. A stricter interpretation of the Sabbath became more common with the Puritans, along with the Seventh-Day Baptists and later the Seventh-Day Adventists.

SUMMARY

Believers are not obligated to observe the Sabbath. The Sabbath was the sign of the Mosaic covenant. The Mosaic covenant and the Sabbath as the covenant sign are no longer applicable now that the new covenant of Jesus Christ has come. Believers are called upon to honor and respect those who think the Sabbath is still mandatory for believers. But if one argues that the Sabbath is required for salvation, such a teaching is contrary to the gospel and should be resisted forcefully. In any case, Paul makes it clear in both Romans 14:5 and Colossians 2:16–17 that the Sabbath has passed away now that Christ has come. It is wise naturally for believers to rest, and hence one principle that could be derived from the Sabbath is that believers should regularly rest. But the New Testament does not specify when that rest should take place, nor does it set forth a period of time when that rest should occur. We must remember that the early Christians were required to work on Sundays. They worshiped the Lord on the Lord’s Day, the day of Jesus’ resurrection, but the early Christians did not believe the Lord’s Day fulfilled or replaced the Sabbath. The Sabbath pointed toward eschatological rest in Christ, which believers enjoy in part now and will enjoy fully on the Last Day.
 
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SayaOtonashi

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have assumed or claimed these things.

It does not say that humans rested or were told to rest.

It does not say that humans were told to follow God’s example.

It does not say that God taught Adam and Eve on the Sabbath.

It does not say God created the Sabbath, or that humans kept it.
 
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SAAN

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[serious];64977002 said:
Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.

Why is it an issue if they do or don't celebrate any particular feast?


If that is the case, why is there so many threads on Christians being sinners and sun god worshipers because they go to church on Sunday.

But Read Rom 14 from beginning to end and you will see it is about vegetarianism and fasting from meats, which is more than likely referring to feast days when they fasted.


One thing to notice is the Sabbath is NOT being discussed here or in the entire book of Romans.
Romans 14

New King James Version (NKJV)

The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose[b] and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.[c] 11 For it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”[d]

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
The Law of Love

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things[e] is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.[f] 22 Do you have faith?[g] Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.[h]
 
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SAAN

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Well than if you want to follow Mosaic Law than I hope you follow long the necessary things for you will be Judge accordingly.


In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. It is quite clear in those verses that the weekly Sabbath is in view. The phrase "a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar (cf. 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Ezekiel 45:17; Hosea 2:11). If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons.
The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant.
The New Testament never commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.
In our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, the church met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).
Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentile nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal moral principle.
There is no evidence in the Bible of anyone keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands in the Bible to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mt. Sinai.
When the Apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15), they did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers.
The apostle Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but breaking the Sabbath was never one of them.
In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath).
In Romans 14:5, Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentile believers).
The early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship (contrary to the claim of many seventh-day sabbatarians who claim that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century).
Sunday has not replaced Saturday as the Sabbath. Rather the Lord's Day is a time when believers gather to commemorate His resurrection, which occurred on the first day of the week. Every day to the believer is one of Sabbath rest, since we have ceased from our spiritual labor and are resting in the salvation of the Lord (Hebrews 4:9-11).

Colossians 2:16-17, Galatians 4:10-11, Romans 14:5 are the most taken ut of context verses in the NT because no one read the verse before and after them as to why it leads to so much division.


I think the main issue I have been trying to get at to the SDA's and Sabbatarians are that if the Sabbath absolutely must be Saturday and cant be observed in any other way is that Lev 23 is still binding then because it lists all the Sabbaths God commands.

So if Christians are wrong for Sunday worship, they are wrong for not keeping the feast days because those were not abolished and I showed many examples of them still being kept, so if they want to follow the commands of God they need to follow Lev 23 too and stop being hypocrites.
 
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It is true that Paul is keeping feast days but the gentile Christians are not - and that is because of the statement in Hebrews 10 about all sacrifices and offerings being at an end.
So how many times must you present this?

Paul isn't doing this annually therefore it isn't the practice (rule) but the exception. Why is this time important to Paul and what he's doing?

Is Paul's purpose to merely observe the law?

Why didn't Paul do it the year before?

Isn't your point Paul was keeping the law?

What is James reasoning for asking Paul to do the vow thing? Its recorded in narrative of Paul's presence in Jerusalem.

Is the real truth Paul actively practices the law? No! Is that what you're trying to show? Yes! Why? Isn't it to prove Christians are bound to the law?

If that's true then what does not under the law, mean?

What does Now we are delivered from the law mean?

What does Christ is the end of the law for righteousness mean? How then do we get the required righteousness? If one is unrighteous (sins) by not keeping the law? I'm not talking about the amended version.

I need you to explain -

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Acts 21 is clear that Paul not only kept the ceremonial law but he even paid to have 4 other Christian Jews join him in doing so.

But in Romans 14 when speaking of that list of annual Sabbaths in Lev 23 Paul points out that one observes ONE ABOVE the others while another observes them all and that it was an individual choice.
Then you have no beef.
That is a specific reference to "Christ our PASSOVER has been sacrificed" - so no new animal sacrifice - but an every day life of the Christian.


We still celebrate the Lord's Supper as it turns out.
This isn't Passover! Jesus here made a change of the law if you wish to say the Lord's Supper and Passover are the same thing.
It shows that the non-Christian Jews in Jerusalem that Herod was trying to please were keeping it. No doubt the Christian Jews as well.
That's an unsupportable assumption.
Indeed. Acts 21 points out specifically that Paul was observant.

But He never requires Gentiles to observe the ceremonial laws of animal sacrifices and offerings as even HE notes in Hebrews 10 and Galatians 2 regarding Titus.

Thus Paul can say "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19 when contrasting the ceremonial law with the Moral law of God.

in Christ,

Bob
The problem for you is the phrase "Commandments of God." You mean that to be the Ten Commandments when in fact it isn't and can't be shown from the text or context.
 
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God said "THEREFORE the Lord BLESSED and made it holy" in both Gen 2:3 AND in Ex 20:11 speaking of Genesis 3.

Even the Baptist Confession of Faith notices this -- and declares that from EDEN to the cross the SAME Day of the week is kept as the 4th commandment by God's people starting with Adam.

Moody argues that The Sabbath was kept in Eden as well.

in Christ,

Bob
Where does Moody do this?
 
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And ten out of 1050 given in the NT.

Historic Sunday keeping sources like

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson


do not make such an argument - because they know the Bible does not support it.

in fact they all argue that Sabbath started in Eden before any ceremonial law existed.

You might as well be arguing that if we are going to Honor God's statement on Marriage in Gen 2 then we need to keep the feast of first fruits as well. Hebrews 10 ends sacrifices and offerings but not Marriage or Sabbath - both of which are created in Genesis 2.

in Christ,

Bob
Where did you say the 4th commandment was even quoted in the New Testament? If it isn't you need to readjust your sheep counter.
 
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