What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments?? (2)

[MoreCoffee]

Then I should not say reason but principle. Indeed the same principle was there when Jesus heal so many on the Sabbath at the objection of the Jews. It is about doing good. When I come on this forum on the Sabbath how is that not going good if you object?

I can't think of any principle that would make using a computer fine and dandy for those who are under the ten commandments as you say that you are. Either Saturday is holy and no work is to be done on the day or is it not holy and you need no principles to decide if using a computer is good on the day.

 

[Elder 111]

The flesh isn't subject to the law and has received its final judgment - death. All flesh dies and returns to dust with out regard to its behavior. The flesh isn't ever redeemed. Both the flesh of the righteous and the wicked have the same end.

The flesh isn't what is reborn. Its the soul. You argue as if the flesh is redeemed and has life. The soul is what is redeemed and born again. Remember a verse that says the soul that sinneth it shall die. (Eze 18:4, 20.)

Now I want to ask you to explain if we're delivered from the penalty of the law why anyone should keep the law? After there is no penalty anymore so why not sin, it doesn't matter. While you're at it please tell what the difference is between that and the cheap grace talked about here in GT.

Please tell me where permission to sin is promoted and by whom.

1. " the soul that sinneth it shall die" This refers to the second death. The flesh that you are referring to that rots in the dust has nothing to do with eternal death which is the end result of all sinners.
2. We are delivered from the penalty of the law only as we remain in Christ and obey His commandments. Eze. 33:
   12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
   13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
   14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
   15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
   16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

 

[Elder 111]

Actually... Right now? God sees you as if your flesh has died. Died on the Cross with Christ. You have been crucified with Christ. All believers have been.

That is why the sins of your flesh could never be counted against you in the final evaluation of all believers. When the time comes the Lord will only look at our works for our evaluation.

Wood, hay, and stubble = works done in the flesh. Burned up, and eternal rewards lost!

Gold, silver, and precious stones = works done by means of truth in the Spirit. Survive the fire, and are made into our crowns (rewards).

Our sins can never be counted against us because we have DIED with Christ on the Cross! We have been crucified with Christ. If we are to live? It can not be by our flesh. We must live by the Truth we have learned and believe. By Faith. We live in Christ by faith. All our living on earth should be by the faith we possess until we receive our resurrection body like the Lord's. Then we will be alive in body and Spirit.



If we walk in the Spirit we are not under the Law. Why? Because while we are being controlled by the Spirit we can not sin. Ironically? Those who wish to keep the Sabbath? Could only do so, if they are living in their flesh by sinning. They are not controlled by the Spirit. Which actually... explains his ritual of choosing. Pride is sin. Even, if its religious pride.

This does not make sense! The Holy Spirit leads me as a child of God and therefore I would not sin. Yet if I keep the Sabbath, which is part of the very command of the same Holy God, I sin? To do what God says is the same as not being led by His Holy Spirit?

 

[GenemZ]

Remember... ARROGANCE is a terrible sin. Its what Satan trapped himself with. Self approval is sin. Many have this problem.. and never find the rest that only God can give. They simply rest on their laurels of accumulating self approved works they performed. DEAD WORKS.

But.. they also must condemn the grace oriented. Its a threat to their egos. Their precious egos.

Galatians 3:1-3

You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes
Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just
one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law,
or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by
means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?
​

So it is! Get back in your flesh!... And, the Law and you will mesh!

Galatians 3:4-6
​

Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask,
does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law,
or by your believing what you heard? So also Abraham “believed God, and it was
credited to him as righteousness.”


​

Maybe I ought to rename this thread.. Land of Galatia.

 

[Elder 111]

Philippians 4:
7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
8Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Romans 7:

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Think of that which is good and then do it for there is virtue there in, even the Ten Commandments.

 

[from scratch]

1. " the soul that sinneth it shall die" This refers to the second death. The flesh that you are referring to that rots in the dust has nothing to do with eternal death which is the end result of all sinners.
2. We are delivered from the penalty of the law only as we remain in Christ and obey His commandments. Eze. 33:
   12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
   13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
   14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
   15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
   16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

What is it that keeps the physical 7th day Sabbath? Are you upset because my body doesn't take off and rest or is it my soul your upset about? Bet its cause my body isn't parked in a pew on Saturday.

The command of Jesus are the commandments found in the Ten Commandments per -

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Romans 7:6 says nothing about the penalty of the law - it says very clearly the law.

 

[from scratch]

This does not make sense! The Holy Spirit leads me as a child of God and therefore I would not sin. Yet if I keep the Sabbath, which is part of the very command of the same Holy God, I sin? To do what God says is the same as not being led by His Holy Spirit?

Your Holy Spirit only functions under the law. Mine doesn't.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Your Holy Spirit only functions under the law. Mine doesn't.

My Holy Spirit doesn't seem to care about the Sabbath command at all.. I've never felt I should keep it even before I knew the New Testament well enough to know for sure.

 

[GenemZ]

This does not make sense! The Holy Spirit leads me as a child of God and therefore I would not sin. Yet if I keep the Sabbath, which is part of the very command of the same Holy God, I sin? To do what God says is the same as not being led by His Holy Spirit?

For the New Creation in Christ to keep the sabbath which was intended for the old creation? Is like entering into the Millennium and offering the Lord gold as a sign of worship. He would look around at everyone and say...


Well, this is what Elder brought me? Pavement?


Which goes to show you.. What once held great importance in the Old Way has no deep value in the New.

Revelation 21:21

And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl.
And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.​

 

[Elder 111]

Your Holy Spirit only functions under the law. Mine doesn't.

Then something is very wrong with your holy spirit. The Holy Spirit gave the law.

 

[Elder 111]

For the New Creation in Christ to keep the sabbath which was intended for the old creation? Is like entering into the Millennium and offering the Lord gold as a sign of worship. He would look around at everyone and say...


Well, this is what Elder brought me? Pavement?


Which goes to show you.. What once held great importance in the Old Way has no deep value in the New.

Revelation 21:21

And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the gates was a single pearl.
And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass.​

So why is it in eternity? Isa 66:23.

 

[from scratch]

So why is it in eternity? Isa 66:23.

I don't know. But please tell me how from ...to means on.

 

[isleof]

Yes, of course, but the KJV isn't.

???

 

[GenemZ]

Then something is very wrong with your holy spirit. The Holy Spirit gave the law.

Are all male believers circumcised? Did Abraham observe a Sabbath day? Did Noah? Why not?

 

[GenemZ]

So why is it in eternity? Isa 66:23.

The Sabbath will be a day for worshiping the Lord in the Millennium...

Isaiah 66:23
Complete Jewish Bible

“Every month on Rosh-Hodesh
and every week on Shabbat,
everyone living will come
to worship in my presence,” says Adonai.

​

For, that will be when the Millennium years takes place when Christ sits on his throne in Jerusalem. Isaiah was written to the Jews, because the entire world at that time will not be able to fit into, nor get to, Jerusalem on the Sabbath. For, it says all will worship in His presence! The entire world can not fit in Jerusalem. The age of the Jews will return. That is why now God is keeping Jews alive in spite of their rejection... but not all. For I am a Jews who accepted Jesus. But, then again. That makes me no longer a Jew...

And?

Judaism will once again be the only faith on the earth for those humans living on earth. After all, Judaism follows the Law. So? We see the Sabbath day mentioned.

Now?

From the same chapter you quoted. To give it some context. Context is something you almost consistently ignore. Or, perhaps its not your fault? You have been evidently poorly taught and never developed good disciplined studying skills.


Here... some context to what led up to what you quoted:

Isaiah 66:10-11​

Complete Jewish Bible


Rejoice with Jerushalayim!
Be glad with her, all you who love her!
Rejoice, rejoice with her,
all of you who mourned for her;
so that you nurse and are satisfied
by her comforting breast,
drinking deeply and delighting
in the overflow of her glory.

​

The Millennium will be a Jewish age. The New Covenant with Israel.

 

[GenemZ]

As if the Holy Spirit isn't already the guide.

You believe the Holy Spirit guides unconditionally? That we have no requirements in regards to sin and having the will to submit before that guidance is made our own?

What law are you even talking about? Discipline? Discipline is good.

I did not even mention anything about having a lack of discipline. Maybe, if you were a little more disciplined in what you read you would not have said such a thing. To be a Christian one must become highly disciplined. One area is not to react to people who say nonsense with an air of having understanding. You have been basing all what you say, apparently, upon your own personal experience, not Bible doctrine.

All the grace only crowd, will want to kick themselves in the head when they figure out that the only law Jesus was speaking against was the man made laws, such as do not touch, do not taste.

Don not eat pork! Do not eat shell fish, nor catfish! You want the law? Its in there.

You have a little knowledge that you think is a lot, because you have yet to learn how much there is to be known.

 

[MoreCoffee]

God is always good.

Yes, of course, but the KJV isn't.

???

The meaning is glaringly obvious.

 

[Elder 111]

Are all male believers circumcised? Did Abraham observe a Sabbath day? Did Noah? Why not?

Circumcision was not given to all men was it? The Sabbath was for all mankind. Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man.
Of course all the patriarchs observed the Sabbath, From Adam onward. God Sanctified it from the very creation.
Your contention is of course is that you don't see it written down. But consider.

1. God is the same always.
2. No record is recorded that same sex was a crime but Sodom was destroyed for it.
3. No record is made of animal offering but Cain's offering was rejected.
4. Where is the mention of a law against adultery? Yet Joseph said if he did it he would Sin against God.
5. Why did God say remember if it was completely unknown?
6. Why did God bless it, sanctified it and hallowed it if it was not to be kept from creation?
7. What reason did God give for man keeping the Sabbath? Because He is creator! has that changed? Is He not the creator anymore?

 

[GenemZ]

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man.

This is getting pretty tiresome with you. You habitually ignore the context AND demand we accept your isolated words to fit your desired outcome.


Jesus was a rabbi. Jesus went to the Jews. He would not have gone to the gentiles and demand that they accept the Torah. Jesus spoke to Jews, as a Jew.

Jesus did not say.. The sabbath was made for all mankind.


Context: The discussion was all Torah related! Law of the Jews.

23 One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”
25 He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26 In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”
27 Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
​

Jesus was speaking to Pharisees! Jews! Never in a million years would Jesus have implicated the gentile world in what he said, to whom the Jews had been commanded to be separate from.

Sadly... its testimonies like yours that some Jews will use in their defense against being witnessed to the Gospel. The thought of Gentile being told to keep the Sabbath is not kosher. God hates a false witness.

Get over it. The Sabbath Day was only commanded for the Jews. Show me on passage in the NT, or even the OT, where the Bible tells the Gentiles by addressing them in particular, to keep the Sabbath Day. Do you also hold the new moon rituals? No.

Your way of thinking is hypocritical. For you are able to compare eating to stay nourished (plucking corn on the Sabbath), to taking unessential time to post on your computer on the Sabbath Day. Antone here can check out your posts and will see there have been a good number of Sabbath Days that you posted here.

Proverbs 14:25
A truthful witness saves lives,
but a false witness is deceitful.



.
​

 

[Elder 111]

This is getting pretty tiresome with you. You habitually ignore the context AND demand we accept your isolated words to fit your desired outcome.


Jesus was a rabbi. Jesus went to the Jews. He would not have gone to the gentiles and demand that they accept the Torah. Jesus spoke to Jews, as a Jew.

Jesus did not say.. The sabbath was made for all mankind.

Where in the bible does the term "man" not refer to all mankind?