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What's the difference between Satan and Lucifer?

That is garbage stuff, and not Bible.

Well, we are not obligated to be of the same faith, so I respect your position in spite of my post is garbage. Thanks :)

*And BTW, this is not found written so plainly in the Bible as one might expect, it's called, Present day truth for our present age. The name, Natasha might be a name that was not even known in Bible times but it sure is alive and well today, it's paganism, and to discount this and say that it is not Biblical is really showing ignorance of the present day issues and concerns of paganism in our world. It's as if you don't believe in pagan existence in this world? Not to criticize but to ask a legitimate question about the occult pagan practices of recent times. I don't believe that we will find the same ancient practices of the pagans today but more inventive ideas of how they can substitute Christ with Satan. You should investigate the pagan occult sometime and see what is current. Thanks, again :)
 
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nephilimiyr

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Though some of what you write I agree with, this is not the doctrine of the Word of God.

It is Adam who is made in the image of God who was to come [Genesis 1:26 -28; Romans 5:14]: and made in the very bodily image indeed of God the Word, who is come in the same likeness of human being flesh that Adam was created in in the beginning -Romans 5:14.

It is the Adam spirit addressed as having been in Eden, and mocked in the Adam person king of Tyrus [the Hebrew says he is an Adam] and is guilty of the sin of the Adam father, in the same one Adam spirit, and who is a descendent of Nimrod, with whom God holds a controversy, still, in his descendents.
God has controversies to settle, and He will settle every one of them and no one will escape who does not repent of the sins of their fathers against God and of their own sins against God -that is Bible doctrine and is why we are all born dead in the one Adam spirit, and so, must be born again in the One Living Spirit of Christ to enter into Paradise above where our first father got cast down and out of at the fall..

Nimrod is the Adam who thought in his heart to ascend above the stars of heaven and set his throne above.
God still has controversy over that, and all controversies will be settled in the descendents of every rebel against God, beginning with the first controversy that got us cast down and out of Eden, from the Paradise of God above, when we were still just the seed in the loins of our first father who would all come forth in our pre-ordained season, boundaried by our pre-ordained days as it is written for us in the Book of Life.

God is mocking the Adam spirit in that passage, and the person in Adam who exalts himself to be "god" who will be brought down to Sheol as an Adam person, and "no god".
I understand that you agree with me in part but I don't understand what exactly you're saying that I said is not the doctrine of the word of God.

Just so that you understand what I said, or didn't say. I didn't say Lucifer was created with the image of God. Me saying he was created as the most beautiful is not the samething. Just look at Eze. chapter 28 and how he is discribed.

Ezekiel 28:12, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, thus saith the Lord God; thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I understand that you agree with me in part but I don't understand what exactly you're saying that I said is not the doctrine of the word of God.

Just so that you understand what I said, or didn't say. I didn't say Lucifer was created with the image of God. Me saying he was created as the most beautiful is not the samething. Just look at Eze. chapter 28 and how he is discribed.

Ezekiel 28:12, Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, thus saith the Lord God; thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Lucifer is not Satan and the word is not a proper noun, in the passage...
also, Tyrus is an Adam person, as the Hebrew language in that passage states, and Satan was never an Adam person.
Satan was never cast out of heaven as to having no more authority over the earth from the heavens; but binding and casting down of satanic strongholds over persons or nations or families is an ongoing doctrine of the Gospel, in that we take back in Christ -in His name and by His authority- what was granted to the satans, legally, by the curses over men, families, and nations, which sin brings.
 
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TillICollapse

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Two cents:

I like practical, real world examples ... and I believe I have seen an entity named "Lucifer". Based on my experiences with it, I believe this "Lucifer" is linked directly to Christianity, at least in the US. It was not one and the same as "Satan". My interaction with it was violent, and physical --- as in, in the physical world, not through a person, etc. It was like something out of a movie. There was also an "angel" involved ... a physical one. I even have a name for the angel.

I don't mind typing out a post, with the details, for scrutiny and examination, you can rip into it with scripture if you like, etc .. so that the reader could draw their own conclusions ... but I'd rather save the time and effort of a tl/dr if no one would care to hear it or read about it. So if anyone would like to hear the account, since it could be evidence on this topic, let me know and I'll type it out.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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There are demons that will use any name that means to strike fear or superstition in the humans they are tormenting.
They "take on names" that are not their own given names from the time they were born as nephillim, but based on the character they are oppressing the demonized persons with.

If a person believes that Lucifer is a proper name -which it is not, in the Word- and they fear the devil's influence over them, or the devil is trying to make them fear; then the demons or the satan trying to rule by fear will lie and use a name like "Lucifer". I have seen it happen many times that a demon speaking through a person being delivered will name itself "lucifer" -as well as many other names that apply to the type of oppression they are controlling the person with: like lust; anger; mental; fear; hate; murder; witchcraft; depression; suicide and so on and so forth...
 
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nephilimiyr

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Lucifer is not Satan and the word is not a proper noun, in the passage...
I believe that this Lucifer and Satan are one and the same, so to do a whole lot of other people, along with the vast majority of biblical scholars. For you to say that it is not the doctrine of the word of God is your opinion but I hope you understand that your opinion is in the minority.

The word "Lucifer" was added to the text much latter on, the original author of Isaiah did not write Lucifer in the passage, in fact the word is of Latin origin, not Hebrew in which was the language that the Book of Isaiah was written. You trying to debate about the word Lucifer is a red herring, a moot point, it means nothing, the author didn't write it.

Isaiah 14:12, How art thou fallen from heaven, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!


also, Tyrus is an Adam person, as the Hebrew language in that passage states, and Satan was never an Adam person.
If you look closely, Ezekiel 28 starts out talking about the prince of Tyrus, not the king. Tyrus was not the mans name but the city in which the prince held authority, a name is never given.

In Ezekiel 28:11 the author changes things up and starts talking about the king of Tyrus, a non-person. In the following verses what the author says about this being cannot be said about any human person. In verse 13 the author discribes the being as having been in the Garden of Eden, every precious stone was his covering, and all these stones were prepared for him the very day he was created.

In verse 14 the author calls him the anointed cherub that covers, and that he was upon the mountain of God and walked in the midst of the stones of fire, a direct discription of the place where the throne of God sits in heaven. He was a cherub, that means an angel, not a man, not an Adam person. The list goes on, none of these things can possibly be discribing a human being no matter how much one wants to say it is.


Satan was never cast out of heaven as to having no more authority over the earth from the heavens; but binding and casting down of satanic strongholds over persons or nations or families is an ongoing doctrine of the Gospel, in that we take back in Christ -in His name and by His authority- what was granted to the satans, legally, by the curses over men, families, and nations, which sin brings.
The Isaiah 14 passages are prophetic, they talk about the down fall of this son of the morning when Jesus Christ comes back for the second time. Read the Book of Revelation, Satan is thrown in hell, into the pit, just like Isaiah has prophesied.

In Ezekiel 28 you have the author first talking about a real earthly prince, he then switches it up to talk about the power behind the prince's thrown and prophesy against him. So to in Isaiah 14, the author first starts talking about a real earthly king but then switches it up to prophesy against the power behind the thrown. Satan is the power behind the thrown and will meet his end just like the two earthly rulers have.
 
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nephilimiyr

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Two cents:

I like practical, real world examples ... and I believe I have seen an entity named "Lucifer". Based on my experiences with it, I believe this "Lucifer" is linked directly to Christianity, at least in the US. It was not one and the same as "Satan". My interaction with it was violent, and physical --- as in, in the physical world, not through a person, etc. It was like something out of a movie. There was also an "angel" involved ... a physical one. I even have a name for the angel.

I don't mind typing out a post, with the details, for scrutiny and examination, you can rip into it with scripture if you like, etc .. so that the reader could draw their own conclusions ... but I'd rather save the time and effort of a tl/dr if no one would care to hear it or read about it. So if anyone would like to hear the account, since it could be evidence on this topic, let me know and I'll type it out.
Yes please, type it out, I want to read it.

If you have read my last post though you will see that I don't really believe that "Lucifer" was ever his name. The word was added to the text much much latter after Isaiah was written. But wow, yeah, I'm very interested in hearing your story.
 
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TillICollapse

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I'm assuming you were somewhat responding to my own post, and that you weren't really interested in hearing my own account ...

I have seen it happen many times that a demon speaking through a person being delivered [/B]will name itself "lucifer" -as well as many other names that apply to the type of oppression they are controlling the person with: like lust; anger; mental; fear; hate; murder; witchcraft; depression; suicide and so on and so forth...
Interesting. In what setting have you mostly seen these demons name themselves "Lucifer" ? Also what I saw and experienced was not through a human being, but separate from one. Have you seen an autonomous entity manifest in some fashion and name itself Lucifer ?

There are demons that will use any name that means to strike fear or superstition in the humans they are tormenting.
They "take on names" that are not their own given names from the time they were born as nephillim, but based on the character they are oppressing the demonized persons with.
I would agree with this, for the most part.

If a person believes that Lucifer is a proper name -which it is not, in the Word- and they fear the devil's influence over them, or the devil is trying to make them fear; then the demons or the satan trying to rule by fear will lie and use a name like "Lucifer".
 
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TillICollapse

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Yes please, type it out, I want to read it.

If you have read my last post though you will see that I don't really believe that "Lucifer" was ever his name. The word was added to the text much much latter after Isaiah was written. But wow, yeah, I'm very interested in hearing your story.
Okay then … I’ll try to include important details, and I can include even more if necessary, because I don’t mind it being scrutinized. I’ll include the hard facts, but also some of the debatable “I could be wrong on the meaning” stuff as well, to give the full context:

The bare bones experience is that I was staying at a family member’s house while they were out of town, and I was lying down (not asleep) when suddenly a bright flash of light appeared above me, and lasted for about 2-3 seconds. It was flashing, somewhat like lightening. My body started to almost convulse for the span of the 2-3 seconds in response to it, as though it was trying to suck me up into it (is the way I would describe it), and the way I felt …. it felt as though my entire body was trying to be turned inside out. Not like wanting to puke lol … but like on a molecular level. It’s what I would imagine being sucked into a black hole would feel like … where you physically break down and get popped into nothingness.

I don’t know why I felt utter terror … but I did. It was the single most terrifying thing I’ve experienced, and I still don’t know why I had such a primal “terror” reaction. Maybe it was due to the type of presence it was, or maybe it was due to my body having such a lack of control in that manner … it was very much a primal type of response. Now, I’ve been in terrifying situations … I’m well traveled, was in the military, third world countries, wild animals, life or death situations, weapons in my face, I’ve dealt with death a lot, etc … this was not the same type of fear, and it was the first time in many, many years, that I wanted absolutely NOTHING to do with the spiritual world. Like, nothing to do with it. It was as though I was put in my place by a fist that was stronger than my own. But once I got my bearings, I realized I was still alive, I hadn’t seemingly been harmed, and I needed to get control of that aspect of fear, and have faith again, etc.

Now that’s the bare bones of what I would call the “arrival” of whatever-that-was. Here is the rest of the context for before it, and after it, which includes an “angel”, and why I believe the encounter involved “Lucifer”, etc.

Approximately ten years before that, I was at a place in my life where I very much was gobbling up anything and everything I could Biblically, in churches, spiritually, etc. I was relatively new to having experienced the filling of the Holy Spirit, and it radically changed me (of course). I was going to multiple churches, close to 6 days a week, every radio station was tuned to some Christian station … I was soaking up everything I possibly could. At that time, I was friends with someone whom we frequently sat and prayed together, and we prayed to be “lead by the Spirit”, and we would go out and do things in and around town, sometimes taking day trips even, etc.

This is important, but I’m going to make a long story short so that I don’t lose whoever is reading this lol … one night, me and this friend were praying about what to do, and for some reason, we both believed we were to have a barbecue. There was no “This is what the Lord says,”, etc … what we were doing, was trying to understand the way the Spirit might lead us. Arguably, this is the very thing that a lot of people (me included) can look at others and say, “That’s bogus. You can’t prove you aren’t just following your own whims,” etc. Well, this is where I was at, and what I was trying to learn. So we decided to have a barbecue, but didn’t know where to have it … it was at night. So we went and bought a few supplies, but we didn’t buy forks, charcoal, matches, etc. We basically just bought food and some plates, and believed that “God would provide the rest”. We decided to head to a lake that was about 20 min away, and look for a place to pull off that had pits and such.

Well, we pull off at this lake … into a random park, and begin to look around for a barbecue pit. This is like, 9 or 10pm at night. Completely dark, had been dark for awhile now. No one around in sight. Well, there was a barbecue pit, that still had a fire burning … and there by the pit, were a set of 3 utensils still in new and unopened packaging. We attributed the presence of the fire, and the utensils, etc … as “God providing”. Well, while we were preparing to cook our food on this fire that was already there lol … a guy drove up in a truck, and started to set up to do some night fishing. He had a generator which he turned on, was running cables from it to a small dock so he could have lights … took him like 30 minutes to set up, and he was very noisy. He was tallish, black male, in a camo jacket and a ball cap.

Well, we got our food cooked, and for some reason, had too much. We had more than we could eat … and so I put some food on an extra plate, took the extra utensils, and brought the man some food. I walked up to him, told him we were having a late night barbecue, and had cooked too much, and asked him if he wanted some. He got up out of his chair, thanked me, took the food, and said, “Thank you, my name is Mike.” I told him it was nice to meet him, to enjoy the food, and then we went back and finished our meal.

After we finished our meal, and Mike was still over there fishing …. we noticed what looked like a nutria off in the water (an otter like river rat type of creature in the south, if you don’t know what they are lol). We went over to take a look, for about 1 minute. We turned our back on Mike to do so … and when we turned around, Mike was gone. And not only was Mike gone, but everything was gone … no truck, no generator, no lights, no fishing equipment. It took him 30, loud, and noisy minutes to set up all his gear … and in the span of 60 seconds, all of it vanished.

I looked at my friend, and I said, “Who was that ?” and before I could get the words out of my mouth, I had a vision of the word “Michael” in golden lights. When I say “vision”, I mean … it wasn’t before me in physical reality, it was either with my spiritual eyes, or with my mind (if you don’t believe me lol). And it sunk in … could that have been the “angel” Michael ? My friend did not have that vision that I had, and so arguably I either had a revelation of who that individual was, or I didn’t … while my friend did not have that same revelation, and so wasn’t sure whether or not to agree with me.

That would be the first time I had met “Mike”.

Now fast forward to the “Lucifer” experience I first described. The family member’s house I was staying at when that happened … I had a lot of issues going on with the family, as well as some other people, that involved a lot of spiritual warfare. There were people making a lot of choices that I was believing was being influenced by spirits of some sort, and that such spirits were causing harm. I’ll spare a lot of details, but let’s just say I had more than enough evidence and reason to believe that God was helping shed light on events, and try to prevent some of them, etc. This family was involved in what I viewed as being influenced by something evil … based on a lot of events that were transpiring. This family was also lifelong believers, and also denied such evil spiritual influences in their lives. So I didn’t have them “on my side” so to speak, we disagreed.

That day I had the experience of the light flashing above me and all that …. I had a vision earlier that day (same type of vision I described above). In that vision, I was part of an arena type of environment, and there were people all around … there was an opponent that was much larger than me, and menacing, across from me. His shape was not like anything on earth … I can’t even describe it. It was like someone took a wild beast, added a porcupine, and blew it up on steroids. I couldn’t even find it’s head, or face … only that it was large, looked as though you wouldn’t want to touch it, looked as though it was comprised of various types of creatures, etc. And while I faced it, all the people around this “arena” moved further into the background, fading off into the distance so to speak (while still watching), seemingly so that I was going to face this thing down by myself.

Later that day, is when the event with the light happened.

I felt overwhelmed after the light thing happened … like maybe I was in over my head, because I was linking the flash and the horror my body went through, to the vision I had of facing this menacing foe. So I prayed for two days, to see if I was on the right track, and doing God’s will, and that I wasn’t walking into things I needed to walk away from.

One of those days … I was driving on my way to work, praying that same thing, meditating on whether I was in over my head or not … and I decided to walk into the store to get some mints or something, and as I was walking in, a person rounded the corner and started to walk right towards me.

It was Mike.

Now, the first time I had seen Mike was roughly ten years, and that was the only time I could remember seeing him. Thus, if that was “Michael the arch angel”, that was the first, and only time, I had seen him. And now here, for the first time since that time, I was seeing someone I immediately identified as Mike …. 6’6” or so, tall, black male, camp jacket, ball cap, all of it. And there was somewhat of a crowd going into and coming out of the store … yet he walked through this crowd right at me, and as he did so, I froze …. one of those “surreal moments” type of freezing. He looked right at me the entire time, and said, “Hey big man,” smiling, and then walked past me. As he walked past me, I tried to bring myself out of my state of awe, and I made myself turn around to go after him. I mean, if it was Michael the angel, I had questions lol … and as I turned around and chased him around the corner he just walked past … again, he was gone. Just like that, he was gone. I didn’t see him anywhere.

Not sure if I was seeing things now … I took this to mean that I was indeed caught up in some spiritual warfare, or conflict … but was this Michael the angel I was seeing ? So after work, I was praying again, for God to please not let me be misled … I mean, were “angels”, or whatever Michael is, just walking around us all the time ?

As I was praying this … and driving home, I took a road I don’t normally take, which placed me to drive past a McDonalds in a wealthy part of the city I lived in. As I was driving, out of the blue, I believed the Holy Spirit was directing me to pull over at this McDonalds. I didn’t normally eat McDonalds, but I did just that anyway … I pulled over, pulled into a parking spot. Not sure what to do next, I believed I was just supposed to sit there … like I was being guided and lead. So I just sat there … and within a few seconds, I noticed someone walking towards me and my car from the side of my window. I hadn’t noticed them before, but there they were … and there was an old beat up blue Oldsmobile type of car or something I hadn’t noticed before either. The guy walking up to me was older, short (like 5’6” or so), slightly overweight, white, had a cigar in his mouth, and he had this huge grin on his face, and asked me, “Sorry to bother your lunch, but would you mind jumping my car ? I have the cables” and I smiled back at him, and he smiled bigger with this, “You low what this is” type of look. And I told him I would. I pulled out and positioned my car, got out, and as I did so, I noticed his car was COVERED in bumper stickers … all of them saying almost the same thing: “Trust God, Believe God” etc and so forth. Very simple messages. And when I say covered, I mean covered. Dozens and dozens perhaps. He set it up to jump, and he did so … and I thought about asking him a million questions, but I had this distinct feeling or understanding like, I wasn’t supposed to question him, I was just supposed to go with it. Well I jumped him, and he never stopped smiling the whole time … he unhooked the cables, gave me a nod and said, “Thank you,” and then got in his car and drove off.

Now, was that guy an “angel” ? I don’t know. But in context of what I was praying about, coupled with seeing Mike again for the second time, coupled with the “Lucifer” incident … if I wanted to put those puzzle pieces together like that, it would be one conclusion.

Now, within the next few days … my family came back, and I was no longer staying at that house, and I was praying about what to do, and also … what was the identity of that flash ? What was that ? Was that, in and of itself, a being ? Was it a portal of some kind ? What was it ?

I was speaking with another believer about it, and the first thing out of their mouth, was “Well, Satan was cast down like lightening from heaven, and he is said to appear as an angel of light …” and after she said that, it hit me like a ton of bricks, and settled within my spirit a certain way … and similar as to how I saw the name “Michael” in vision, I suddenly saw the name “Lucifer” in darkness. I prayed a lot about that … because I am of the camp that Satan is not “Lucifer” (as others have stated), and I am also of the camp that “Lucifer” may not even be a proper name in the scriptures (as others have stated) … yet that is the name I got. And the idea that the flash I was saw was this entity being “cast down”, or perhaps appearing as light (although my body reacted to it as though it were darkness) … did not leave me.
 
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TillICollapse

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(cont from previous post, ran out of text)

I’m almost done … I want to provide a bit more context here …

So over the next *year*, I prayed daily about this entity, the family who I believed was being influenced by it, etc … and the family that lived there didn’t believe what I had to say about them being influenced by such a thing. They believed my story, and my account, and even the revelations I believed I received concerning it’s identity and such … but because they were such strong believers, they did not want to accept that they could be influenced. There came a day when one of the family members actually decided to give what I was saying a shot, and try to “fight” with me … and within about 48 hours, they changed their mind, as they experienced car accidents, sickness, and other calamities I won’t go into here (too many to list) … and they ran the other direction, hoping that “ignoring it” would take care of the problem. To make a long story short, over the next year, I noticed that whenever I directly tried to oppose it in various ways, it was as though I was infringing upon it’s territory and specific types of traumatic things would happen … I could make a laundry list of horrors. I had to be careful to not take issue with the people involved (who arguably did not want to face what was happening for what it was after they did that one time), but focus on the spiritual powers. One of the conclusions I finally had what I believed a revelation on, was that in some manner, this “Lucifer” was present because of “Law”. Some aspect of “Law” that was being adhered to, and followed by the family of believers (I presume), was being followed or submitted to, which sort of stripped them of authority they thought they had

I’ll stop there … I could go on, but I’ll summarize.

* I saw the light, had the physical reaction, and watched as calamity unfolded when I challenged whatever “it” was.
* Those events were in conjunction with seeing a “man” named Mike who, I believed was perhaps Michael the “angel”. The time I had seen this “man” before, he was able to vanish along with a host of physical objects in a matter of seconds, and I was not alone when I saw this, I was with another person. The second time I saw him, he vanished yet again by himself.
* Through vision and revelation (if you choose to believe me and credit it accordingly), I believe what I saw was either the casting down and arrival of, or form, of an “angel of light” type of being named “Lucifer”, who influenced a strong family of believers who were stripped of some aspect of authority because they were submitting to some “Law”. I do not know what the name “Lucifer” would mean in this context specifically, as I am generally of the same camp as yeshuasavedme when it comes to the names that “demons” take on. However, I may argue this was not a demon, but something else.

When I put all those pieces together … I’m not saying anything about the timing of the passage in Revelation, or precisely what it entails … I am only drawing a parallel to my own experience, when Micael and his angels fight against the dragon and his angels, and those angels are cast to the earth. When the Lord saw Satan cast out, it was like lightening from heaven. When Michael and his angels are fighting the dragon and his angels, what does it look like when they get thrown down ? Does it look like what I saw, and one of the reasons I saw Michael, was because he and his angels had cast this “Lucifer” down at some point ? And I still have questions as to the *nature* of what arrived/cast down/manifested … and why did I get the name “Lucifer” concerning it ? Is there a specific law that the “son of the morning” in the scriptures is linked to, etc ?

Anyway there is my witness account … hope what I typed made sense, as I’m multitasking at the moment …
 
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yeshuasavedme

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I'm assuming you were somewhat responding to my own post, and that you weren't really interested in hearing my own account ...

Interesting. In what setting have you mostly seen these demons name themselves "Lucifer" ? Also what I saw and experienced was not through a human being, but separate from one. Have you seen an autonomous entity manifest in some fashion and name itself Lucifer ?

I would agree with this, for the most part.
No, and none would, because I would not believe them.
We have watched SCOAN -Emmanuel tv live broadcasts in instances where demons manifest and have called themsaelves "lucifer".

Psalm 18:44, 45 is fulfilled there all the time, in that the "ben nekar -sons of the aliens [fallen watchers]- manifest, and fear, and come out of their strongholds because of the Anointing of Christ on the men of God, there.
verse 45 is literally that the sons of the aliens [demons] become foolish, tremble and shake with fear, and come out of their strongholds.


 
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yeshuasavedme

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I believe that this Lucifer and Satan are one and the same, so to do a whole lot of other people, along with the vast majority of biblical scholars. For you to say that it is not the doctrine of the word of God is your opinion but I hope you understand that your opinion is in the minority.

The word "Lucifer" was added to the text much latter on, the original author of Isaiah did not write Lucifer in the passage, in fact the word is of Latin origin, not Hebrew in which was the language that the Book of Isaiah was written. You trying to debate about the word Lucifer is a red herring, a moot point, it means nothing, the author didn't write it.

Isaiah 14:12, How art thou fallen from heaven, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!



If you look closely, Ezekiel 28 starts out talking about the prince of Tyrus, not the king. Tyrus was not the mans name but the city in which the prince held authority, a name is never given.

In Ezekiel 28:11 the author changes things up and starts talking about the king of Tyrus, a non-person. In the following verses what the author says about this being cannot be said about any human person. In verse 13 the author discribes the being as having been in the Garden of Eden, every precious stone was his covering, and all these stones were prepared for him the very day he was created.

In verse 14 the author calls him the anointed cherub that covers, and that he was upon the mountain of God and walked in the midst of the stones of fire, a direct discription of the place where the throne of God sits in heaven. He was a cherub, that means an angel, not a man, not an Adam person. The list goes on, none of these things can possibly be discribing a human being no matter how much one wants to say it is.



The Isaiah 14 passages are prophetic, they talk about the down fall of this son of the morning when Jesus Christ comes back for the second time. Read the Book of Revelation, Satan is thrown in hell, into the pit, just like Isaiah has prophesied.

In Ezekiel 28 you have the author first talking about a real earthly prince, he then switches it up to talk about the power behind the prince's thrown and prophesy against him. So to in Isaiah 14, the author first starts talking about a real earthly king but then switches it up to prophesy against the power behind the thrown. Satan is the power behind the thrown and will meet his end just like the two earthly rulers have.

If you actually check out other passages in Ezekiel, you will see that God mocks men whose ancestors did blaspheme God and rebelled against Him, and God has a controversy with their descendants until each of those controversies are settled -one way or another.

The mocking of the king of Tyrus is a mocking of the one Adam spirit which each Adam person is born in; and Adam, the first father of our human being race, was in Eden, and we in his loins were there and were cast down and out in him. Only Adam was was cast down and out of Eden, in the third heaven.
Psalm 82 also states the same. It was Adam, the one prince who was cast down, when he died in spirit as a son of God.
Read that one using the Hebrew concordance

Nimrod is the ancestor of the King of Tyrus, a descendant of Nimrod, directly, who sought to exalt his throne above the throne of God in the Bab-el rebellion. The English is very wanting there, for the king is an Adam, not a satan, nor a former holy angel.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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(cont from previous post, ran out of text)

..

Anyway there is my witness account … hope what I typed made sense, as I’m multitasking at the moment …
Yep, I believe you.
But I believe the name used was to let you know it was an evil spirit that many associate with being "lucifer", and so that was a way to let you understand that the evil spirit was a satan.
The Bible has many coined words for events that happen, like Sodomy, Babble, and others. Even the name "Am -Rapha- El in Genesis 14 was a coined name for Nimrod, because "in him they fell" -the people at the tower. It means "the people", "to fall", and "mighty one".
So through a myth of a fallen angel, the word lucifer is coined for satan.

But the satans are all evil spirits in heaven. They have not fallen, yet, and they were created to do what they do, and they serve God in doing it; because they tempt, try, and test the sons of Adam and the holy Watchers, and those who believe their lies and do them end up being cast aways int eh Lake of Fire and food, then, for the satans forever, whose food and drink is to torment and afflict those who became subject to them.

My Dad had that evil light appear to him when he rejected Jesus as LORD, and it led him into eastern religions, and Dad went insane.
He told me about it when I asked him why he rejected Jesus as LORD. He had been in many battles in WW2 and had friends lose heads, arms, legs... while walking beside him, and he lost/rejected what faith he had and sought another way -as he told me; and "a light appeared by his bed and showed him another way", which included astro-projection and re-incarnation and divination.

Job's friend -so called- had a satan =an evil spirit from heaven- appear by his bed at night and accuse Job.
 
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nephilimiyr

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If you actually check out other passages in Ezekiel, you will see that God mocks men whose ancestors did blaspheme God and rebelled against Him, and God has a controversy with their descendants until each of those controversies are settled -one way or another.

The mocking of the king of Tyrus is a mocking of the one Adam spirit which each Adam person is born in; and Adam, the first father of our human being race, was in Eden, and we in his loins were there and were cast down and out in him. Only Adam was was cast down and out of Eden, in the third heaven.
Psalm 82 also states the same. It was Adam, the one prince who was cast down, when he died in spirit as a son of God.
Read that one using the Hebrew concordance

Nimrod is the ancestor of the King of Tyrus, a descendant of Nimrod, directly, who sought to exalt his throne above the throne of God in the Bab-el rebellion. The English is very wanting there, for the king is an Adam, not a satan, nor a former holy angel.
This is one of the most convoluted understandings of Ezekiel I have heard. Adam wasn't in heaven until Jesus defeated death on the cross. Adam never walked among the stones of fire or upon the mountain of God before he sined. Adam nor any King of Tyrus was ever called the anointed cherub that covers. Adam was a human being and so was a king of Tyrus no matter how long ago he lived. They were not created covered with diamonds, topaz, sardius, jasper, and sapphires. This cherub that covers shined brightly. Twice in these passages this being is called the cherub that covers. If you don't want to simply read what is written instead of making up stories about what is written I see no reason to talk about this anymore. Thanks for the discussion none the less, it was interesting.

Psalm 82, I've studied it in the Hebrew, is about the devine council and how God first mocks the higharchy angels, and then in how He is going to deal with the highacrhy angels who sin. Adam was not a god in the assembly, 82 is not about Adam at all.
 
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nephilimiyr

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(cont from previous post, ran out of text)

I’m almost done … I want to provide a bit more context here …

So over the next *year*, I prayed daily about this entity, the family who I believed was being influenced by it, etc … and the family that lived there didn’t believe what I had to say about them being influenced by such a thing. They believed my story, and my account, and even the revelations I believed I received concerning it’s identity and such … but because they were such strong believers, they did not want to accept that they could be influenced. There came a day when one of the family members actually decided to give what I was saying a shot, and try to “fight” with me … and within about 48 hours, they changed their mind, as they experienced car accidents, sickness, and other calamities I won’t go into here (too many to list) … and they ran the other direction, hoping that “ignoring it” would take care of the problem. To make a long story short, over the next year, I noticed that whenever I directly tried to oppose it in various ways, it was as though I was infringing upon it’s territory and specific types of traumatic things would happen … I could make a laundry list of horrors. I had to be careful to not take issue with the people involved (who arguably did not want to face what was happening for what it was after they did that one time), but focus on the spiritual powers. One of the conclusions I finally had what I believed a revelation on, was that in some manner, this “Lucifer” was present because of “Law”. Some aspect of “Law” that was being adhered to, and followed by the family of believers (I presume), was being followed or submitted to, which sort of stripped them of authority they thought they had

I’ll stop there … I could go on, but I’ll summarize.

* I saw the light, had the physical reaction, and watched as calamity unfolded when I challenged whatever “it” was.
* Those events were in conjunction with seeing a “man” named Mike who, I believed was perhaps Michael the “angel”. The time I had seen this “man” before, he was able to vanish along with a host of physical objects in a matter of seconds, and I was not alone when I saw this, I was with another person. The second time I saw him, he vanished yet again by himself.
* Through vision and revelation (if you choose to believe me and credit it accordingly), I believe what I saw was either the casting down and arrival of, or form, of an “angel of light” type of being named “Lucifer”, who influenced a strong family of believers who were stripped of some aspect of authority because they were submitting to some “Law”. I do not know what the name “Lucifer” would mean in this context specifically, as I am generally of the same camp as yeshuasavedme when it comes to the names that “demons” take on. However, I may argue this was not a demon, but something else.

When I put all those pieces together … I’m not saying anything about the timing of the passage in Revelation, or precisely what it entails … I am only drawing a parallel to my own experience, when Micael and his angels fight against the dragon and his angels, and those angels are cast to the earth. When the Lord saw Satan cast out, it was like lightening from heaven. When Michael and his angels are fighting the dragon and his angels, what does it look like when they get thrown down ? Does it look like what I saw, and one of the reasons I saw Michael, was because he and his angels had cast this “Lucifer” down at some point ? And I still have questions as to the *nature* of what arrived/cast down/manifested … and why did I get the name “Lucifer” concerning it ? Is there a specific law that the “son of the morning” in the scriptures is linked to, etc ?

Anyway there is my witness account … hope what I typed made sense, as I’m multitasking at the moment …

Thanks for your witness. The reason why I wanted to read it is because I work with a fellow who has also seen and has had interaction with demons and also with angels of God. The stories are very different as he was living in Detroit and preaching on the streets and came up against alot of spiritual warfare simply because he was doing the Lords work, the enemy didn't like that too much.

As for the Satan Lucifer discussion here, you and yeshuasavedme can believe what you want. I stated what I believe about it and feel I said enough. God bless you both! :)
 
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TillICollapse

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No, and none would, because I would not believe them.
We have watched SCOAN -Emmanuel tv live broadcasts in instances where demons manifest and have called themsaelves "lucifer".

Psalm 18:44, 45 is fulfilled there all the time, in that the "ben nekar -sons of the aliens [fallen watchers]- manifest, and fear, and come out of their strongholds because of the Anointing of Christ on the men of God, there.
verse 45 is literally that the sons of the aliens [demons] become foolish, tremble and shake with fear, and come out of their strongholds.



Yep, I believe you.
But I believe the name used was to let you know it was an evil spirit that many associate with being "lucifer", and so that was a way to let you understand that the evil spirit was a satan.
The Bible has many coined words for events that happen, like Sodomy, Babble, and others. Even the name "Am -Rapha- El in Genesis 14 was a coined name for Nimrod, because "in him they fell" -the people at the tower. It means "the people", "to fall", and "mighty one".
So through a myth of a fallen angel, the word lucifer is coined for satan.

But the satans are all evil spirits in heaven. They have not fallen, yet, and they were created to do what they do, and they serve God in doing it; because they tempt, try, and test the sons of Adam and the holy Watchers, and those who believe their lies and do them end up being cast aways int eh Lake of Fire and food, then, for the satans forever, whose food and drink is to torment and afflict those who became subject to them.

My Dad had that evil light appear to him when he rejected Jesus as LORD, and it led him into eastern religions, and Dad went insane.
He told me about it when I asked him why he rejected Jesus as LORD. He had been in many battles in WW2 and had friends lose heads, arms, legs... while walking beside him, and he lost/rejected what faith he had and sought another way -as he told me; and "a light appeared by his bed and showed him another way", which included astro-projection and re-incarnation and divination.

Job's friend -so called- had a satan =an evil spirit from heaven- appear by his bed at night and accuse Job.
Thanks for reading all of that ... I don't like to inflict tl/dr posts on people, so thanks :)

So in short, you think what I saw was a satan that has not fallen from heaven yet, yes ?

Thanks for your witness. The reason why I wanted to read it is because I work with a fellow who has also seen and has had interaction with demons and also with angels of God. The stories are very different as he was living in Detroit and preaching on the streets and came up against alot of spiritual warfare simply because he was doing the Lords work, the enemy didn't like that too much.
Thanks for reading it ! Again, I know it was long.

I'd be interested in reading some of your friends accounts if there are any places you can point me to where they are referenced ... I wouldn't mind comparing and contrasting, esp if my experience was very different from his own. Although what I just typed out, was just one of many accounts lol ... I have seen one other physical being that I know of, which I believed to be a spiritual "flesh and blood" type of being (as Mike/Michael was able to be), as well as a variety of other manifestations both though people and outside of them, plenty of people and spirits claiming to be angels, fairies, aliens from another planet, demons, etc ... so I may have experiences that actually line up with your friends, I don't know.

If you think I said something that is off, wrong, doesn't line up ... I don't mind you saying as such, I'd be interested in hearing it and why you would think it.

As for the Satan Lucifer discussion here, you and yeshuasavedme can believe what you want. I stated what I believe about it and feel I said enough. God bless you both! :)
I actually read the first few posts of the thread, and then skipped to the end ... I will go back and read what you said on the matters because I don't know what you mean that "I can believe what I want" yet lol ... again, if you see where I've said that I believe something that is off or wrong to you, lemme know ... thus far, I respect both you and yeshuasavedme posts that I read in the forum, etc :) I don't think you post just to hear yourself talk :)
 
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GratiaCorpusChristi

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Title says it all JACK. ;)

A shatan is an accuser or prosecutor, including several supernatural beings largely seen as opposed to Yahweh, who prefers to take his stand on behalf of the accused.

Lucifer is an honorific title meaning Light Bearer, and can be applied to anything from an Ancient Near Eastern king to Christ himself.

ha-Shatan, or the Satan we've come to know and despise, is a development of Second Temple Judaism. In that period, the court accuser came to mean God's adversary more generally.

And that's about as far as the Bible gets us. Any connection between Lucifer and Satan, let alone a fully developed mythology of Lucifer's transformation into Satan, developed in the course of post-biblical Christian history. And I'm just not as conversant with that on this particular subject.
 
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GratiaCorpusChristi

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Did Jesus reveal himself to these people?

Did Jesus reveal the truth to these people concerning this matter?

The same people you mentioned are those who would place liturgy above scripture and church dogmas above scripture.

So to whom are you witnessing to and about who?

You should be witnessing about Jesus and what he has revealed to you and not what men have opined to you and others.

These two you mentioned are men and fallible might I add because they lean not on the cornerstone as the refuge but upon church leadership and their fallible dogmas.

Where is your bias friend?

Has Jesus revealed himself to you and shown you his truth.

I as a witness can say he has revealed himself to me and he has shown me his truth and he has shown me also where he had smitten Satan and who Satan is and when he has been released to decieve the world for the last and final time.

Do you have Jesus in your heart or do you have the opinion of those who say they have Jesus.

The relationship must be with the living God and not your church, your fellow men or church hierarchy. If you don't have a one to one relationship with Christ and rely outwardly into the world for truth, then you will not find the truth of The Lord.

Satan is a real person and those that use play on words in Hebrew to make scripture say things that it doesn't are the enemies of Christ,

The book of Isaiah chapter 14 is written in a way throughout the whole chapter that is describing lucifer as a real and tangible person who amongst the ranks of the angels wanted to be equal to the Angel of The Lord, the Living Word Christ Jesus.

Satan is described as a real character pertaining to a real and tangible person who started the great controversy that manifested into the two sides of good and evil.

Read the whole chapter 14 of Isaiah before you go beating your chest for these two fallible men.

Well that was annoying.
 
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TillICollapse

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As for the Satan Lucifer discussion here, you and yeshuasavedme can believe what you want. I stated what I believe about it and feel I said enough. God bless you both! :)
Okay I went back and re-read your thoughts on the matter ... you believe Satan and the being described in Isaiah 14:12, and the King of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28 etc, are the same.

This may sound uneducated, idk ... but from what I can tell, Satan is continually and directly referred to as a serpent/dragon/devil or equated with a serpent/dragon/devil.

I don't see equating the being in Isaiah 14 with Satan/dragon/serpent, or the cherub/King of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28. I know you feel you have said enough on the matter, but if you'd like to say more, I wouldn't mind it being explicitly shown why all three are equal. They seem like three distinct beings to me.
 
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