What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

[Elder 111]

The last time I checked, God confronted Moses full on with the Commandments. He was so Holy, he came down the mountain blinded, with his face burnt.
(if anything, imagine the trip back )

Seems legitimate enough for me- the Ten Commandments are still in effect
God went out His way to expound on these points of Godliness. They are even literally set in stone.

How can the Ten Commandments still be in effect but you deny the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments? How does that work?

 

[Elder 111]

My non Christian neighbor doesn't steal either. Does that make him a legalist and Christian possessing salvation? Is he even being obedient to the law (Ten Commandments)?

According to the theology of "Squint." Yes.

 

[squint]

According to the theology of "Squint." Yes.

I'm not so apt to paint myself up under the law or grace.

Better to be honest before God. A somewhat rare characteristic in christianity.

And if you managed to notice the Law stands, period.

It changed the fact that we are sinner not one iota by following it.

s

 

[VictorC]

How can the Ten Commandments still be in effect but you deny the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments? How does that work?

It doesn't. You still haven't shown where the Ten Commandments was given to the Gentiles in Barbados, so the sabbath is immaterial to you anyway. So much for your 'sabbath test' conjured from the Pen of Liability

 

[VictorC]

...the Ten Commandments are still in effect...

Using a plural expression to refer to a singular covenant shows a certain level of confusion.

 

[from scratch]

According to the theology of "Squint." Yes.

Sorry I don't use Squint theology. My statement/question was based entirely off what you said. So man up and admit its your theology and idea.

 

[Elder 111]

I'm not so apt to paint myself up under the law or grace.

Better to be honest before God. A somewhat rare characteristic in christianity.

And if you managed to notice the Law stands, period.

It changed the fact that we are sinner not one iota by following it.

s

Is your position that because we may live perfectly by the Ten Commandments from now on we will still be sinner so it make no sense obeying God in that respect?

 

[Elder 111]

Sorry I don't use Squint theology. My statement/question was based entirely off what you said. So man up and admit its your theology and idea.

Then the answer is NO.

 

[squint]

Is your position that because we may live perfectly by the Ten Commandments from now on we will still be sinner so it make no sense obeying God in that respect?

No believer in their right mind will say that it is OK to lie, to steal, to murder, to commit adultery.

And the Law is right to stand to this day, fully secure in it's RIGHTFUL judgment against all of those actions in any person they are found.

My point to legalists is a more basic (fundamental) observation. That the factual evil that the seat of ALL of us, in/within our conscience, is constantly assailed by temptation of the tempter, and it IS largely so wherever the Word of God is sown, because JESUS SAID SO.

There is no way to justify that working in any person, regardless of the legal behavior they exhibit on the outside.

Simple enough?

And I make a similar observation to the grace alone people. There is neither any way to justify that working under grace either. It can not logically/reasonably be done.

I have no issues with the Law standing (whether I believed it true or not is irrelevant, Gods Word stands of His Own Will and Accord regardless) against the factual evil that we are all subjected to within.

The Law happens to be our alerter to the fact of it. So is GRACE, an alerter.

It is foolish to say that working is legal or under grace.

And both parties, if they saw this 'internal working' for what it is, more accurately WHO it is OF, would have no issues for the LAW standing against that working, for GRACE standing against that working.

And neither party would claim that 'internal working' to be either lawful or under grace.

We as Gods children ARE under Grace precisely for that reason.

And the lawless one(s) remain condemned under the law. AND UNDER GRACE that working is also UTTERLY CONDEMNED.

These matters are never ever ever solely about us as individuals.

We all have factual opponents whom both law and grace RIGHTFULLY remain against, and we carry that working between our own two ears.

Any of you who have honesty within will (eventually) arrive at an honest conclusion.

s

 

[from scratch]

Is your position that because we may live perfectly by the Ten Commandments from now on we will still be sinner so it make no sense obeying God in that respect?

The Bible says you both you don't and can't.

 

[from scratch]

Then the answer is NO.

I figured you wouldn't.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Is your position that because we may live perfectly by the Ten Commandments from now on we will still be sinner so it make no sense obeying God in that respect?

Talk about a warped question..... that isn't his position at all. We can't live perfectly by the 10 commandments otherwise Jesus would not have to have to come to keep them on the behalf of the Jews. We are ALL sinners both those who are under the Law and those who are not so the 10 commandments has done NOTHING in that regard to separate sinners from non sinners using it as a way to determine who is and is not righteous in that regards is utterly WORTHLESS. This is why Christians are not obligated to a worthless system of determining righteous as it only had one person who passed through the system who made it and he was righteous prior to starting into it so for him it was an unneeded task on his OWN behalf... he did it for US... not himself.
Christians should not use the 10 commandments as a standard it is obsolete and irrelevant as far as using it to determine righteousness or not as we have a way now that we can do so in Christ by faith. Jesus works (keeping the commandments) shows us he alone is righteous and the source of such.... NOT the 10 commandments.

 

[squint]

Talk about a warped question..... that isn't his position at all. We can't live perfectly by the 10 commandments otherwise Jesus would not have to have to come to keep them on the behalf of the Jews. We are ALL sinners both those who are under the Law and those who are not so the 10 commandments has done NOTHING in that regard to separate sinners from non sinners using it as a way to determine who is and is not righteous in that regards is utterly WORTHLESS. This is why Christians are not obligated to a worthless system of determining righteous as it only had one person who passed through the system who made it and he was righteous prior to starting into it so for him it was an unneeded task on his OWN behalf... he did it for US... not himself.
Christians should not use the 10 commandments as a standard it is obsolete and irrelevant as far as using it to determine righteousness or not as we have a way now that we can do so in Christ by faith. Jesus works (keeping the commandments) shows us he alone is righteous and the source of such.... NOT the 10 commandments.

Your claim is generally on target.

But I think all of you on the grace alone side of the ledgers should also acknowledge the fact that those who murder, steal, lie, commit adultery, or anything that Paul lists in Galatians 5 as forbidden for believers are not only facts, but the 'believers?' who do them are in fact slaves of sin who are revealed as being so by Law, Grace and good old fashioned common sense.

Doesn't avoid the fact that we remain sinners also. External sins are a worse OUTcome of sin. It culminates the external proof of slavery and shows the blinded for what they are.

To say believers are scot free to do anything is just as much the lie as those who claim to be legally obedient.

The best any claimer can muster is that we keep things in check within, and try not to let it spill out to the detriment of ourselves, others and society.

s

 

[Sophrosyne]

Your claim is generally on target.

But I think all of you on the grace alone side of the ledgers should also acknowledge the fact that those who murder, steal, lie, commit adultery, or anything that Paul lists in Galatians 5 as forbidden for believers are not only facts, but the 'believers?' who do them are in fact slaves of sin who are revealed as being so by Law, Grace and good old fashioned common sense.

Doesn't avoid the fact that we remain sinners also. External sins are a worse OUTcome of sin. It culminates the external proof of slavery and shows the blinded for what they are.

To say believers are scot free to do anything is just as much the lie as those who claim to be legally obedient.

The best any claimer can muster is that we keep things in check within, and try not to let it spill out to the detriment of ourselves, others and society.

s

I think that part of the process of salvation is admitting that one is sinful. One can consider that via the Law or otherwise as people in the Bible knew they sinned prior to the inception of the Law itself and there are people who without knowledge of the Law accept Jesus on the basis they are convicted of being a sinner via the Holy Spirit.
If one truly believes they are saved they will be sensitive to sin and attempt to try their best to reduce and even eliminate it from their lives. Those who are saved do not have to rely upon the Law to equate sin but focus on how they are treating others either in love to them with God in mind or selfishness for essentially worshiping their own desires (sins).

In other words Christians don't have to use the Law as a standard at all, it can be useful but falls way short of what Jesus teaches us. Those who use the Law only to combat sin are limiting their walk with God they may never go beyond what the Law doesn't inspire in those who adhere to it... Faith.

 

[GenemZ]

Yeah, well, don't follow them, and you'll be in for a mighty surprise come judgement.
That goes for all you osas believers.

I think because you have a doctrinal agenda of your own. That you are missing entirely the point that was made. Look again. It has nothing to do with salvation. God does not give a law for the unbeliever, unless its civil law.

The Ten Commandments were mandated by the Lord not just for the believers. It was commanded for ALL of Israel. For the believers and unbelievers.

The Ten Commandments were designed by God to establish national freedom and order, not salvation.
​

For some reason, you wish to introduce one's salvation into the mix. It was commanded to all people in the Land. Not just believers. It had nothing to do with personal salvation. It had to do with establishing order and freedom in a land where there was a theocracy. God's civil law for Israel.

 

[squint]

I think that part of the process of salvation is admitting that one is sinful. One can consider that via the Law or otherwise as people in the Bible knew they sinned prior to the inception of the Law itself and there are people who without knowledge of the Law accept Jesus on the basis they are convicted of being a sinner via the Holy Spirit.
If one truly believes they are saved they will be sensitive to sin and attempt to try their best to reduce and even eliminate it from their lives. Those who are saved do not have to rely upon the Law to equate sin but focus on how they are treating others either in love to them with God in mind or selfishness for essentially worshiping their own desires (sins).

In other words Christians don't have to use the Law as a standard at all, it can be useful but falls way short of what Jesus teaches us. Those who use the Law only to combat sin are limiting their walk with God they may never go beyond what the Law doesn't inspire in those who adhere to it... Faith.

Believers understanding of the Law does vary. Rightfully so.

The Law is Spiritual. Those who say it is only about pigs and shrimp and a church building know little if anything about the LAW. They are merely basking in their own limited sights and constructs of same.

The LAW does move to bring SATAN into action.

This is the intent of LAW and in case you hadn't noticed. Look around you.

...the Law's intent to make sin utterly sinful will not and can not be altered.

That BEAST will rise out of the sea of humanity on time, on schedule and within budget, prior to it's final eradication in judgments.

s

 

[GenemZ]

How can the Ten Commandments still be in effect but you deny the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments? How does that work?

The Ten Commandments were Civil Law in the Land of Israel. Not spiritual law.Israel was a theocracy at that time. So? If you want to live in the land? You must observe the Sabbath Day with all.

The Ten Commandments makes for good Law as far as guaranteeing freedom and liberty in a land. No need for the Sabbath command today because only Israel was a theocracy.

 

[GenemZ]

My non Christian neighbor doesn't steal either. Does that make him a legalist and Christian possessing salvation? Is he even being obedient to the law (Ten Commandments)?

The Ten Commandments were given to all in the Land. The unbelievers included. The reason God had the Sabbath Day included was because that nation was a theocracy. It was to produce order on the day of worship for the benefit of those who did believe. Not all who lived in the Land were believers. No one was to steal. No one was to murder. No one was to commit adultery. Those commands have nothing to do with spiritual worship. It was for all.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Believers understanding of the Law does vary. Rightfully so.

The Law is Spiritual. Those who say it is only about pigs and shrimp and a church building know little if anything about the LAW. They are merely basking in their own limited sights and constructs of same.

The Law is not spiritual to those who are not in the spirit it can be nothing but a carnal thing... do this do that mindlessly keeping commandments with no thought about love or faith involved in it all.

The LAW does move to bring SATAN into action.

This is the intent of LAW and in case you hadn't noticed. Look around you.

...the Law's intent to make sin utterly sinful will not and can not be altered.

That BEAST will rise out of the sea of humanity on time, on schedule and within budget, prior to it's final eradication in judgments.

s

For those who adhere to the Law and use it as their standard Satan loves to condemn them via the use of it. For those who refuse to be put under the Law Satan has to condemn them directly via each sin and the Holy Spirit convicts them also of such until one decides to resolve the matter and confess such sins and seeking forgiveness of those sins have faith in that forgiveness then ignore Satan about such sins from then on.
Under the Law one much procure beasts to kill to cover sins for such infractions. The Law set a standard so high that nobody could rightfully boast about keeping it and assume they were righteous by it alone. It showed the Jews that they were nowhere near as good as God and Jesus proved he was God by being the only one who could keep it.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The Ten Commandments were given to all in the Land. The unbelievers included. The reason God had the Sabbath Day included was because that nation was a theocracy. It was to produce order on the day of worship for the benefit of those who did believe. Not all who lived in the Land were believers. No one was to steal. No one was to murder. No one was to commit adultery. Those commands have nothing to do with spiritual worship. It was for all.

No... the Sabbath wasn't ever about a day of worship. There is nothing in the Bible that says one is to worship on the Sabbath at all. I believe the Sabbath was made for two reasons:
1)to force people to rest
2)in forcing people to rest they had no excuse to ignore God on that day hence some also decided to worship God then

I believe after being enslaved for over 400 years working probably sometimes every day of the week without rest God in order to show his power gave them a permanent day off and made it so even an evil king of Israel couldn't force people to work on that day he would have to publically defy the whole of Isreal's priesthood publically.