What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

[Neogaia777]

All's I'm Going to (want to) say, is that if you Love God with your entire being, and you Love your neighbor (and brothers and sisters) as yourself, you do not even need to "observe" the ten commandments, because if you really, truly "love" (and your love is made "perfect" through Christ) then you will automatically "keep" all the commandments...

Matthew 22:35-40 (ESV)- 35- "And one of them, a lawyer, asked him (Jesus) a question to test him" 36- "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37- "and he said to him "You shall Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your soul, and with all your mind" 38- "This is the great and the first commandment" 39- "And a second is like it: "You shall Love your neighbor as yourself" 40- "On these two commandments "depend all the Law and the prophets""

 

[squint]

Jesus wasn't merely human. We are. And he wasn't born sinful. We are.

And the law is a problem because of the tendency of humankind to sin. It's not a problem in and of itself, because it is a reflection of God's holy framework for human action. But because we are sinners, that makes it a problem, and a problem that cannot be solved simply by trying harder.

I generally agree with the "Lutheran" constructs on these matters, that being that none of us escape being a factual sinner under the Law, even though some try to claim they are not sinning by being externally legal OR by avoiding the Law under Grace.

Neither case can legitimately be made.

s

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111
Was the law there in the time of Joseph?

Not sure how to answer this. What's your point in asking, sir?

Because the Ten commandments were written at Sinai, the contention is that they did not exist prior to that time.
If the Ten commandments were unknown/did not exist, why did Joseph say that he could not sin against God with Potiphar's wife? How did he know that it was a violation of God's command/law/will.
How did Job know that Jesus would raise repentant sinners from the grave, there is no record of that. Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
My point: because it was not written before does not mean it was unknown or that God did not reveal it.

 

[Elder 111]

I have entered into the very Sabbath of God by resting from all my works and Honoring the one to whom He sent. For He alone is my King. I do not look at days as any different from each other any more. For my God is eternal and with Him I have eternal life. So my Sabbath is in Christ and not in a day.. WOOT WOOT Oh how I love Him . The one who set me free.. If only now those darkened eyes would open so they could see.. That in the day there is no rest but in Him is where we nest..

WOOT WOOT God has delivered me from the law. I am in Christ, He alone is my King. He has set me free, so I done have to worship Him alone. My idols can sit in my living room.

 

[from scratch]

Originally Posted by Elder 111
Was the law there in the time of Joseph?

Because the Ten commandments were written at Sinai, the contention is that they did not exist prior to that time.
If the Ten commandments were unknown/did not exist, why did Joseph say that he could not sin against God with Potiphar's wife? How did he know that it was a violation of God's command/law/will.
How did Job know that Jesus would raise repentant sinners from the grave, there is no record of that. Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
My point: because it was not written before does not mean it was unknown or that God did not reveal it.

According to Moses you're wrong.

 

[from scratch]

WOOT WOOT God has delivered me from the law. I am in Christ, He alone is my King. He has set me free, so I done have to worship Him alone. My idols can sit in my living room.

Why do you make such belligerent and foolish statements?

 

[Elder 111]

There isn't a hint of the sabbath being a test of any sort to God's redeemed possession anywhere in the Bible. You didn't get this from any Biblically literate source. This is further evidence that you're a seventh-day Adventist, who alone made this up.

Every man has been placed on trial, as were Adam and Eve in Eden. As the tree of knowledge was placed in the midst of the garden of Eden, so the Sabbath command is placed in the midst of the decalogue. In regard to the fruit of the tree of knowledge, the restriction was made, “Ye shall not eat of it, ... lest ye die.” Of the Sabbath, God said, Ye shall not defile it, but keep it holy. “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” As the tree of knowledge was the test of Adam’s obedience, so the fourth command is the test that God has given to prove the loyalty of all his people. The experience of Adam is to be a warning to us so long as time shall last. It warns us not to receive any assurance from the mouth of men or of angels that will detract one jot or tittle from the sacred law of Jehovah.​

Linking the tree in the garden with the sabbath reveals your true source.
And yet in this same document written by Ellen White opens with this unBiblical claim:

The Sabbath was given to all mankind to commemorate the work of creation.​

We've already seen this isn't true. The sabbath wasn't given to the Gentiles, no one in Barbados has this commandment foreign to them, and it appears nowhere as a commandment given to God's adopted children.

Elder111's reliance is on a false prophet.
Not the Bible.

I was not referring to the above and do not recall ever seeing it, but I will look for it now.
My conclusions were drawn from Ex. 16. God own words.
4 Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Note this was about the Sabbath but yet the Lord spoke in the plural. Commandments and laws. They only broke one, the Sabbath and they were guilty of all.
I don't have to depend on Ellen White. By the way where is that quotation taken from?

 

[VictorC]

I was not referring to the above and do not recall ever seeing it, but I will look for it now.
My conclusions were drawn from Ex. 16. God own words.

No, your conclusions can only be supported by the ramblings of Ellen White. Your notion of a test based on the sabbath -present tense- is nowhere found in Scripture.

4 Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28And the Lord said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Note this was about the Sabbath but yet the Lord spoke in the plural. Commandments and laws. They only broke one, the Sabbath and they were guilty of all.

One glance at who the 'them' addressed refutes your notion completely, and buries your notion in the grave once you look at the time that is far before the new covenant included the Gentiles in the Gospel. Drawing on the tenets of Judaism doesn't transfer them to Christianity.

I don't have to depend on Ellen White. By the way where is that quotation taken from?

The quote is linked directly to the White Estate, which is a source you have revealed as authoritative to you. Yet you won't come right out and identify yourself as SDA, and your moniker doesn't identify your affiliation either. Why you show such dependence on an extra-Biblical source long shown to be uninspired explains your rejection of Scripture, but it doesn't explain your apparent attempts at deception.

 

[Elder 111]

You've bought into (one of MANY) theological constructs designed to invoke personal fear and the exercise of ritual to, in essence, save yourself via that exercise.

Unfortunately christianity is filled with every form of manipulation possible to scare and divide the masses and heap up disciples of certain teachers and names.s

My teacher s Jesus. So yes I want persons to follow Him.

The construct that SDA has on 'sabbath matters' is speculation based on shadows and what 'they think' is happening in heaven, as if they know.

It's a speculated fantasy by people who think they know something, and then use that something to make people fear and serve their 'personally contrived system.' Obviously as well other sights are factually available by other limited forms of speculation designed to the detriment of others and the promotion of even more 'sects.' And on and on it goes in christiandom in general.s

I did not contrive the Ten Commandments. Last I saw God wrote those with His own hand, and the Sabbath is there Just like steal, adultery, Idolatry, lying etc. Sin is a transgression of the same Ten Commandments which includes the Sabbath. Jesus said Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law.
So leave SDA's out of it.

If a believer wants to go to church on Saturday as a matter of conscience, hey, good on you. But doing so to 'save yourself' is another matter altogether because in that every participant now implies that other believers who do not are potentially damned, in the SDA's case by eternal death.

Why is it that going to church and resting on Sunday is not working for salvation but just mention Sabbath and it is all works. Why? Salvation is about faith and grace but obedience is still required. It is God that pronounced death to those who disregard His commandments not SDA's.

Their gathering is one of factual condemnation to other believers.

Many in christiandom are rightfully rejecting that vile practice in any form, not desiring to be found sitting in Gods Seat as a phony judge, even as a remote possibility. And also do so from a position of conscience and placing a greater priority on mercy and living in actual love rather than condemnation.

Christianity itself has largely dessicated itself along these types of various constructs. They are all suspect for accuracy.

No one sees well enough to make those kinds suppositions.

But they all certainly think they do.

One may as well drape a viper around their neck in the name of Jesus. Oh, wait, they do that too.

snore.

s

God is the judge and the standard He uses to judge us is His Holy Law.
Rom. 7: 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

 

[squint]

My teacher s Jesus. So yes I want persons to follow Him.

Well of course we all claim that. My continuing point in casual conversations with SDAists is that it is unlikely that any following derives a position of sinlessness by following law.

It is possible to derive the truthful conclusion from law, the fact that we have sin.

I did not contrive the Ten Commandments.

Never said you did.

Last I saw God wrote those with His own hand, and the Sabbath is there Just like steal, adultery, Idolatry, lying etc.

It has also been observed that The Word became flesh. Do you think Jesus Is Termed The Stone for no cause?

Do you think he was a literal stone with finger carvings?

Sin is a transgression of the same Ten Commandments which includes the Sabbath. Jesus said Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law.
So leave SDA's out of it.

I'm as fond of the Word as the next guy. There are no issues with the Law being against our factual indwelling sin. There is nothing wrong with deriving a factual conclusion from the continuation of that law.

Why any of you think you are in compliance when the truthful conclusion is the exact opposite is a contrivance of personal delusion.

Why is it that going to church and resting on Sunday is not working for salvation but just mention Sabbath and it is all works. Why?

The fact of a person having indwelling sin is not changed one iota by showing up in the pew on any day of the week OR the exercise of any number of rituals.

Salvation is about faith and grace but obedience is still required.

One might think that being truthful about having sin regardless is part of being a believer.

It is God that pronounced death to those who disregard His commandments not SDA's.

Do you think any of us are going to avoid that consequence?

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

That conclusion is not going to change for the body in trying to make sin obey or be legal.


s

 

[MamaZ]

WOOT WOOT God has delivered me from the law. I am in Christ, He alone is my King. He has set me free, so I done have to worship Him alone. My idols can sit in my living room.

You have idols in your living room. I wouldn't be proud of that.

 

[from scratch]

No, your conclusions can only be supported by the ramblings of Ellen White. Your notion of a test based on the sabbath -present tense- is nowhere found in Scripture.

One glance at who the 'them' addressed refutes your notion completely, and buries your notion in the grave once you look at the time that is far before the new covenant included the Gentiles in the Gospel. Drawing on the tenets of Judaism doesn't transfer them to Christianity.

The quote is linked directly to the White Estate, which is a source you have revealed as authoritative to you. Yet you won't come right out and identify yourself as SDA, and your moniker doesn't identify your affiliation either. Why you show such dependence on an extra-Biblical source long shown to be uninspired explains your rejection of Scripture, but it doesn't explain your apparent attempts at deception.

Its kinda after the fact but maybe he should take a pointer from the Bible.

And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee.

 

[SwordFall]

I know, just as I always knew from the very first time I laid eyes on the Ten Commandments, that they are forever binding rudiments of Godliness that, in following God, you do not break them.

They are the building blocks of ALL GODLY MORALS.
That's all you need to understand.

People deny them, saying we don't need to follow them, because they are so hell bent on a notion that you cannot lose your salvation, and these basic rudiments just fly out the window for them, thinking instead Hell is for the 'unbeliever' rather then the 'actual wicked'.

 

[from scratch]

My teacher s Jesus. So yes I want persons to follow Him.

Perhaps I shouldn't say anything about this comment. So I'm gonna let wisdom prevail.

I did not contrive the Ten Commandments. Last I saw God wrote those with His own hand, and the Sabbath is there Just like steal, adultery, Idolatry, lying etc. Sin is a transgression of the same Ten Commandments which includes the Sabbath. Jesus said Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law.
So leave SDA's out of it.

But haven't you read the many posts quoting Heb 7:12?

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

If the law hasn't changed Jesus is a sinner and there's no such thing as salvation because Jesus (God) has usurped the priesthood. contrary to the law. Do you understand the repercussions of such? Jots and tittles of the law have changed so all thing must have been fulfilled concerning Jesus just like He said in LK 24:44.

Why is it that going to church and resting on Sunday is not working for salvation but just mention Sabbath and it is all works. Why? Salvation is about faith and grace but obedience is still required. It is God that pronounced death to those who disregard His commandments not SDA's.

Why do you apply the regulations of the Sabbath to Sunday when generally no one else in Christendom does?

God is the judge and the standard He uses to judge us is His Holy Law.
Rom. 7: 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

How do you still imply the Ten Commandments are applicable to Christians in light of v 6 same chapter and others such as Gal 4:30 where we're told to throw out the law.

 

[from scratch]

You have idols in your living room. I wouldn't be proud of that.

Makes him believable.

 

[Elder 111]

NO. Adam and the tree is nothing like the Sabbath as Adam failing put mankind on a path of sin when he himself was essentially righteous to begin with. Man is already sinning prior to keeping the Sabbath and breaking it doesn't put the whole human race from the position of righteous to sinful. The Sabbath isn't that special to anyone but Israel, and with Jesus death he is the Lord of the Sabbath so he now retains that attention and NOT the Sabbath itself.

You missed the point. It is the one commandments that takes an active conscious decision. Even those who never hear about the bible will tell you not to take that which is not yours etc., but to honor God by keeping His Sabbath does not come to mine that easily. It takes a knowledge of the fact, commitment and love to God himself. It is the only Commandment that receives opposition.

 

[Elder 111]

Jesus wasn't merely human. We are. And he wasn't born sinful. We are.

And the law is a problem because of the tendency of humankind to sin. It's not a problem in and of itself, because it is a reflection of God's holy framework for human action. But because we are sinners, that makes it a problem, and a problem that cannot be solved simply by trying harder.

Rom7:
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom. 8:There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
It is ours to accomplish in Christ by the Holy Spirit. We keep saying is impossible. Not so, I believe Jesus knew He could do it in us. Mat. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

What did God say of Job? What about Enoch?

 

[Elder 111]

All's I'm Going to (want to) say, is that if you Love God with your entire being, and you Love your neighbor (and brothers and sisters) as yourself, you do not even need to "observe" the ten commandments, because if you really, truly "love" (and your love is made "perfect" through Christ) then you will automatically "keep" all the commandments...

Matthew 22:35-40 (ESV)- 35- "And one of them, a lawyer, asked him (Jesus) a question to test him" 36- "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37- "and he said to him "You shall Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your soul, and with all your mind" 38- "This is the great and the first commandment" 39- "And a second is like it: "You shall Love your neighbor as yourself" 40- "On these two commandments "depend all the Law and the prophets""

If you love God with all your heart you will obey Him. You will love to obey Him, it will be a joy to obey Him. That would be exemplified in Keeping His holy law including the 4th Commandments. Ex. 16: 28 How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
What we fail to admit is that the Sabbath is the Lord's.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

WOOT WOOT God has delivered me from the law. I am in Christ, He alone is my King. He has set me free, so I done have to worship Him alone. My idols can sit in my living room.
​

Why do you make such belligerent and foolish statements?

Why do you imply them? The Ten Commandments have no jurisdiction over us etc. It either does or it does not. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Elder 111]

No, your conclusions can only be supported by the ramblings of Ellen White. Your notion of a test based on the sabbath -present tense- is nowhere found in Scripture.



One glance at who the 'them' addressed refutes your notion completely, and buries your notion in the grave once you look at the time that is far before the new covenant included the Gentiles in the Gospel. Drawing on the tenets of Judaism doesn't transfer them to Christianity.



The quote is linked directly to the White Estate, which is a source you have revealed as authoritative to you. Yet you won't come right out and identify yourself as SDA, and your moniker doesn't identify your affiliation either. Why you show such dependence on an extra-Biblical source long shown to be uninspired explains your rejection of Scripture, but it doesn't explain your apparent attempts at deception.

I am sorry but the rejection is yours. God said that He would test them to see if He will obey his law or not. He then tested then with the Sabbath Command. Ellen White nor Elder 111 did not write that.
Just in case you did not know. Salvation is of the Jews. John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.