No new Mosques?

[Zoness]

I also think it has a lot to do with the close connection the state has with the Russian Orthodox Church as well. This is the same reason the government of Russia is prohibiting the building of a new Hindu temple. The Hindus were promised they could rebuild after the demolition of their previous temple but they never actually allowed it. The local bishop, Archbishop Nikon, urged the state to forbid rebuilding saying that Krishna was Satan** and all that jazz. Right wing fundamentalist religion is a threat all around the world. It's very bad in much of the Middle East but it isn't limited to that region as this and other examples of bigotry show.

Here is the Archbishops turgid Pat Robertson worthy rant to the Russian government :

Lord Krishna “an evil demon, the personified power of hell opposing God”, and “a livid lascivious youth”,.....“an idolatrous disgrace erected for the glory of the wicked and malicious ’god’ Krishna”.....“Construction of the temple (a satanic obscenity destined to be built right in the heart of the Orthodox Christian country of Russia) to Krishna offends our religious feelings and insults the thousand-year religious culture of Russia where the overwhelming majority of people, Christians and Muslims included, consider Krishna an evil demon, the personified power of hell opposing God,” said the archbishop’s letter.

This is another one of the big elephants in the room in my opinion; the Russian Orthodox church as it operates inside of Russia. As far as I am concerned, they seem to be an operational extension of the Russian government's wishes. They pay homage to Putin's government and act as its moral police while Putin's government uses them as a buffer to enact anti-democratic actions. I think the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] Riot fiasco and the anti-homosexuality laws are a pretty good show of where things have been and where they are headed in regards to the government working with the church and the general evils regarding bleeding of religious authority into government action.

 

[Ishraqiyun]

This is another one of the big elephants in the room in my opinion; the Russian Orthodox church as it operates inside of Russia. As far as I am concerned, they seem to be an operational extension of the Russian government's wishes.

I feel sad about the Church leadership Russians have been stuck with. The KGB totally infiltrated the Church under Soviet rule. Putin (former KGB) has been happy to keep up the old relations. Church leadership at the higher levels is just politics now. All about power and influence. It's a shame. Prior to the revolution there was actually a real tradition of holiness and saintliness. It still lives on in a few quarters (especially among the monastics) but for the most part worldly people have taken over. Now it's just a big business and power broker.

 

[kenzo0]

This is a sample of why Islam is growing


I had NO choice except to convert to Islam!! - YouTube

OOOhhhhhh... sunrise..
was that the reason why Islam is growing?

I propose you to watch this video:
Without threat of DEATH for apostasy for leaving Islam imam admits Islam would not exist - YouTube

Top Imam says: if there no punishment for apostacy from Islam, Islam would not exist today

 

[kenzo0]

I do not see how no Mosques would greatly disrupt us Muslim. Islam is not dependent on Mosques and I would venture to say that most Muslims world wide seldom pray in a Mosque. Especially here in the US were the number of Mosques can only hold about 10% of the Muslim Population. Here in North Dakota, there are at least 8,000 Muslims but only 5 Mosques and the largest one can only hold about 200 people. The total capacity of all 5 Mosques is about 500. But that does not stop any of us from praying.

Every adult Muslim can be an Imam. Every Muslim Household can have one room for a Mosque.

The lack of Mosques does not prevent us from praying or learning about Islam. The first teacher of Islam is a person's Mother. After that any Adult Muslims we know.

Take away all the Mosques and we will find a room to pray in. take away our houses and we will find a clean spot of ground to pray on. Take away our Imams and another Muslim will step into his place. Separate us so we are each alone and we will be our own Imams as many do when Prayer time occurs during work or school.

Take away every Mosque and you will never know how many Muslims live near you. Without a Mosque we are still there, but no longer readily visible.

so wise, if the soul is more important than the building, why must pray face the kiblat

 

[kenzo0]

Who needs mosques when there are roads & parks & houses ...


Messenger of God (Muhammad) said: "All of the earth is a Masjid (mosque) except for the graveyard and the washroom." Jami` at-Tirmidhi 317 ... In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 169

Russia on it's way to becoming a Muslim majority military.!


Predicting a Majority-Muslim Russia :: Daniel Pipes
"By 2015, Muslims will make up a majority of Russia's conscript army, and by 2020 a fifth of the population. "If nothing changes, in 30 years people of Muslim descent will definitely outnumber ethnic Russians," Goble said." ... "and the possibility of majority of it being Muslim in 2050"


PIPES: Muslim Russia? - Washington Times

"Within a few years, Muslims will make up half the conscripts in the Russian Army"

yeah...and soon Islam will dominate the world

 

[WoodrowX2]

so wise, if the soul is more important than the building, why must pray face the kiblat

First you need to understand what is meant by prayer.

There are 2 words that translate into prayer. Salat and Du'a.

The Five obligatory Salat is when we face the Qiblah. It is a formal prayer service like when Christians are in a Church and face the Alter or Cross. We just have one Alter the remnants of it are the Qiblah. (The Alter) Salat is basically A formal worship service not much different from a Catholic Mass.

Du'a is more like what most people call prayer we say them whenever we desire and facing whatever direction we happen to be facing. It is our informal personal conversations with Allaah(swt) Du'as can be traditional prayers or our own spontaneous words.

Most non-Muslims seem tp be only aware of Salat and many believe that is the only time we pray and they seem to think we have to face the Alter(Qiblah) every time we pray.

 

[WoodrowX2]

OOOhhhhhh... sunrise..
was that the reason why Islam is growing?

I propose you to watch this video:
Without threat of DEATH for apostasy for leaving Islam imam admits Islam would not exist - YouTube

Top Imam says: if there no punishment for apostacy from Islam, Islam would not exist today

What makes him a top Imam? We have no ordained clergy and no Imam has any more say about Islam than the newest least educated Muslim. Also there is no indication He is an Imam although he may be as nearly every adult male Muslim is an Imam.

Here is another view of Sheik Yusuf al qaradwi

He has somewhat tempered since June of this year

Al Arabiya
Sunday, 9 June 2013
In an interview with Al Arabiya aired on Sunday, Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, president of the International Union of Muslim Scholars, slammed Lebanese Hezbollah group as “party of Satan” that seeks to “sow discord” among Muslims.
Sheikh Qaradawi lamented his previous defense of Hezbollah and Iran at a time when major Muslim scholars, notably in Saudi Arabia, had voiced skepticism over the militia group’s plotting in the region.
“When Hezbollah was fighting against Israel, I defended it. I stood against the Muslim scholars in Saudi Arabia, the most renowned scholars who warned us against Hezbollah,” Sheikh Qaradawi said.

SOURCE

 

[smaneck]

What makes him a top Imam? We have no ordained clergy and no Imam has any more say about Islam than the newest least educated Muslim.

This guy is a favorite among the Muslim Brotherhood, a Salafist organization. When he states that Islam would not exist today had apostasy not been punishable by death, he is not referring to conversions to Christianity or any other modern phenomenon. He is referring to the Riddah Wars which took place immediately after Muhammad's passing. A lot of the traditional shamans of the Bedouin tribes began to claim prophethood for themselves and this nearly tore the Muslim community apart. It is the primary background behind Islamic claims that revelation ends with Muhammad.

 

[WoodrowX2]

This guy is a favorite among the Muslim Brotherhood, a Salafist organization. When he states that Islam would not exist today had apostasy not been punishable by death, he is not referring to conversions to Christianity or any other modern phenomenon. He is referring to the Riddah Wars which took place immediately after Muhammad's passing. A lot of the traditional shamans of the Bedouin tribes began to claim prophethood for themselves and this nearly tore the Muslim community apart. It is the primary background behind Islamic claims that revelation ends with Muhammad.

I knew he had considerable following among the Salafi.

That may soon change as he seems be becoming more moderat recently.

See my addition to my post above.

 

[smaneck]

I knew he had considerable following among the Salafi.

That may soon change as he seems be becoming more moderat recently.

I hope he has 'moderated' his statements to the effect that the holocaust was God's judgement on the Jews and that he hoped Muslims would finish off what Hitler had started!

 

[WoodrowX2]

I hope he has 'moderated' his statements to the effect that the holocaust was God's judgement on the Jews and that he hoped Muslims would finish off what Hitler had started!

Like all of us, he only speaks for himself.

 

[smaneck]

Like all of us, he only speaks for himself.

Unfortunately this guy has more influence over the actions of others than you or I do. That is what makes some of these akhunds so dangerous.

I like Islam, I don't like akhunds.

 

[kenzo0]

First you need to understand what is meant by prayer.

OK

There are 2 words that translate into prayer. Salat and Du'a.

The Five obligatory Salat is when we face the Qiblah. It is a formal prayer service like when Christians are in a Church and face the Alter or Cross.

sorry interrupt your explanations, just NOTE for you, that Christians face alter/cross is not God's command but it's church command.
The church applies this rule is to harmonize people who serve God in the same faith.
Both Christians and the Church acknowledge this...so, it's not God's command, for God Himself had said "You shall not bow down to their gods or serve them or do after their works; but you shall utterly overthrow them and break down their pillars and images."(Exodus 23:24)

please understand the different between the Church command, and God's command.
That makes me wondering is... Allah asked the follower to bow/even sujood face on Kaa'ba, Hajar al-aswad particularly

We just have one Alter the remnants of it are the Qiblah. (The Alter) Salat is basically A formal worship service not much different from a Catholic Mass.

Catholic is a religion, base on God but rules and found by human being.

Du'a is more like what most people call prayer we say them whenever we desire and facing whatever direction we happen to be facing. It is our informal personal conversations with Allaah(swt) Du'as can be traditional prayers or our own spontaneous words.

Understand, thank you.


the different is only, God never asked HIs follower to worship/bow to anything beside Him, and God's direct command to His follower regarding prayer was:
(Matthew 6:5-6)


Prayer

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Most non-Muslims seem tp be only aware of Salat and many believe that is the only time we pray and they seem to think we have to face the Alter(Qiblah) every time we pray.

yes, maybe.. because pray is our communication with God privately.. and as a non-Muslims I know that God would never wanted His creature to worship other than He.
So curious, how come there are God(the True One) command human being to worship face on something like in the pict above..
no offence

 

[LoAmmi]

So curious, how come there are God(the True One) command human being to worship face on something like in the pict above..
no offence

Solomon told his people to face the Temple when praying if they were carried away into captivity.

 

[kenzo0]

Solomon told his people to face the Temple when praying if they were carried away into captivity.

I do not argue about the Temple(Miqdash) because I know the story and I know the reason. and it's command understandable.

In the time when God communicate through His special men to His people(His children of Israel), not only in Solomon time He had sanctify His place but before it, He had done to the Tent of Meeting in Moses and Aaron's time.
So, the Temple that Solomon build was the concrete place He chose to establish His "house".
Because, there were so many House of Lord found in the Bible, but only that "Temple" God instructed to face on.
these is some of BAYIT, HÊYKHAL in the Bible, but not asked by Him to face on it when pray;

• And to the captains over hundreds did the priest give king David's spears and shields, that were in the temple of the LORD.
  
• At that time did Hezekiah cut off the gold from the doors of the temple of the LORD, and from the pillars which Hezekiah king of Judah had overlaid, and gave it to the king of Assyria.
  
• And the king called for Jehoiada the chief, and said unto him, Why hast thou not required of the Levites to bring in out of Judah and out of Jerusalem the collection, according to the commandment of Moses the servant of the LORD, and of the congregation of Israel, for the tabernacle of witness?
  
• Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.
• And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
  

and this was how the Temple look like:

So, if the Jews who had received its command still practises, nothing wrong in my view...for it was His special command to His first children(i.e Israel). And I believe His Words is never ends.


It was different story about hajar al-Aswad, and why the Muslims should kisses it.


Now, could you see the different between these two commands?

 

[WoodrowX2]

Originally the Qiblah was Jerusalem, and Muslims faced it for the same reason the Jews faced it,

As for kissing the Black Stone that is Sunnah there is no command to do so.

The Hajar Al-Aswad (Window) is simply an opening through which one may see the remaining remnants of the original alter. We believe the Alter was used By Adam, Moses, Abraham, Solomon It did fall into disuse and became used by the Pagans in Arabia. Muhammad Smashed it along with the Pagan statues that were used by the Pagans.

Those few stone pieces are the remnants of the original alter.


Islam is not a new religion we do not believe the Qur'an brought any new Commands. It is the same revelations that were given to all the Prophets,

.

we face the Qiblah For the same reasons all people have a focal point when in any formal worship. In any house of worship everyone faces towards the same direction or object. It is simply a means for all in a group to stay focused on the same thing without distracting each other.

As Muslims we consider all the Earth to be a Mosque and all Muslims a the time of
salat are all facing the same directions we are all in the same mosque.

The structures you see as Mosques are little more than shelters to keep out of the ran etc. They are no more holy then the streets of Paris at Salat Time and the Streets are no less holy than a Masque at Prayer time.

Because of where I live Very often I am the only Muslim within 100 miles of any Muslims but by facing the Qiblah at prayer time I am inside the very same Mosque as my Brothers and sisters and praying in unity with them

Because we all pray in the same direction there is no absolute need for any separate structure as a Mosque. We are in a Mosque no matte where we are. Even on the plains of North Dakota, In a boat far out at sea, in the middle of the desert or in Downtown Manhattan. And at Salat we are all saying the very same prayers at the same time even though physically we may be miles away from each other. but we are still Praying in the same Mosque. Which is the earth.

There is no sermon at Salat although the Imam may give one up until the time the Athan is called.

We believe we are doing what was taught be all the past Prophets, including what Jesus(as) taught.

 

[simplegifts]

I abhor the concept of killing a person for leaving a religion. the Qur'an is quite clear there is to be no compulsion in religion. A person needs to be responsible only to God(swt) over their choice of religion. It is their own decision and they alone accept the result of the decision on judgement day.

Having been a Christian and now a Muslim, on a world wide basis, I do not see a person who leaves Islam as being in any more danger than a Christian who leaves Christianity. While typically "Christian Honor" killing are not called such I have found they do occur. Often called "Domestic Violence" with no further explanation. But I have found that it is not uncommon for a person who leaves Christianity in Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal to become a victim of "Domestic Violence"

I know more than a few American Christians that have reverted to Islam and are afraid to have any family members know. It is one of the most common concerns I hear from recent converts to Islam.

Speaking as I Muslim.

I do not know who is a Muslim. No one does. That is only known to the person and Allaah(swt). None of us can see into another person's heart and thoughts. To be a Muslim it means a person is submitting to God(swt) to the best of their ability. If a person is Submitting to God(swt) they are Muslim even if they do not yet know they are Muslim.

Any one can claim to be a Muslim and not be one. Likewise there are probably people who claim not to be Muslim and are Muslims.

We do not know who is or who isn't a Muslim, we only know who claims to be.Muslim


I think the same goes for all religions. We do not know, we only know what a person claims to be.

Just my opinion I do not believe a person is any religion if they are not willing to say they are that religion, no matter what the consequences.

In other words:

A Christian is not a Christian If they are not willing to say they are Christian, no matter what the consequences.

A Jew is not a Jew If they are not willing to say they are Jewish, no matter what the consequences.

A Muslim is not a Muslim If they are not willing to say they are Muslim, no matter what the consequences.

etc

I think some Missionaries play the threat of death card to show the need of more Evangelizing. and to be able to claim higher converts than they actually have.

I was once a Missionary "converting" Muslims. In my ego I thought I had won more souls than the numbers showed, because I believed most converts were afraid to say they were Christian.

That verse is about forcing a person into Islam, not about one leaving Islam.
002.256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
002.257 Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein (For ever).

This is the verse used by Islamists for the ok to kill apostates, those once Muslim now hypocrites:
004.088 Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
004.089 They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-


Then for those who follow hadith also-
Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 586: Narrated Ibn Al-Musaiyab: The companions of the Prophet said, "Some men from my companions will come to my Lake-Fount and they will be driven away from it, and I will say, 'O Lord, my companions!' It will be said, 'You have no knowledge of what they innovated after you left: they turned apostate as renegades (reverted from Islam).

Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 587: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "While I was sleeping, a group (of my followers were brought close to me), and when I recognized them, a man (an angel) came out from amongst (us) me and them, he said (to them), 'Come along.' I asked, 'Where?' He said, 'To the (Hell) Fire, by Allah' I asked, 'what is wrong with them' He said, 'They turned apostate as renegades after you left.' Then behold! (Another) group (of my followers) were brought close to me, and when I recognized them, a man (an angel) came out from (me and them) he said (to them); Come along.' I asked, "Where?' He said, 'To the (Hell) Fire, by Allah.' I asked, What is wrong with them?' He said, 'They turned apostate as renegades after you left. So I did not see anyone of them escaping except a few who were like camels without a shepherd."

Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 83, Number 17: Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57: Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'

Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58: Narrated Abu Burda: Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"

Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 84, Number 59: Narrated Abu Huraira: When the Prophet died and Abu Bakr became his successor and some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, 'Umar said, "O Abu Bakr! How can you fight these people although Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, 'and whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', Allah will save his property and his life from me, unless (he does something for which he receives legal punishment) justly, and his account will be with Allah?' "Abu Bakr said, "By Allah! I will fight whoever differentiates between prayers and Zakat as Zakat is the right to be taken from property (according to Allah's Orders). By Allah! If they refused to pay me even a kid they used to pay to Allah's Apostle, I would fight with them for withholding it." 'Umar said, "By Allah: It was nothing, but I noticed that Allah opened Abu Bakr's chest towards the decision to fight, therefore I realized that his decision was right."

 

[Supreme]

But, isn't it called MOSQUE-ow? (Sorry, couldn't resist).

Anyway, it's of course a very bad thing to do, and is restricting the basic human rights of Moscow's Muslims to worship in the way they want. I'm not shocked, as this is Russia we're talking about, where human rights are optional, and the increasingly powerful Orthodox Church is showing itself not too tolerant towards minorities. However, since more Muslims are coming to the big northern Russian cities to do jobs that the native Slavs can't or won't do, they fulfil an important role, so it's not fair to deny them their religious rights.

 

[Crypto]

Solomon told his people to face the Temple when praying if they were carried away into captivity.

That's because the presence of God was in the innermost part of the Temple. That's different from bowing towards the former temple of Aphrodite (mandatory for Muslims) or kissing a meteorite shaped as a vagina (popular among Muslims).

 

[Crypto]

But, isn't it called MOSQUE-ow? (Sorry, couldn't resist).

Anyway, it's of course a very bad thing to do, and is restricting the basic human rights of Moscow's Muslims to worship in the way they want. I'm not shocked, as this is Russia we're talking about, where human rights are optional, and the increasingly powerful Orthodox Church is showing itself not too tolerant towards minorities. However, since more Muslims are coming to the big northern Russian cities to do jobs that the native Slavs can't or won't do, they fulfil an important role, so it's not fair to deny them their religious rights.

Russians are extremely nice people. The thing is that they don't take crap from anyone. If it comes to tolerance towards minorities, the Muslims should start showing some tolerance towards Middle Eastern Christians, Hindus, Zoroastrians, and members of other faiths, instead of claiming more and more benefits that they themselves are never willing to grant to non-Muslims.