What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I think the change is probably more due to constant complaints of those posting unorthodox stuff using unorthodox icons in GT myself. I see the same people creating new socks and posting over and over the same stuff.

Lot's of socks...

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Cribstyl]

In chapter 1 Paul explains the steps man took to change from the image of God. Paul's narrative of mans fall from God's image is reflective of what God explained about man before He sent the flood (no mention of a broken law because it was not given as yet). Those two narratives are exclussively about the fall of man from the image of God, and not about a people to whom He gave the law.

So just as in Genesis, God said.... I created them in my image and they began to do what was right in their eyes. Paul is reenforcing creation facts.
Romans chapter 1 Paul then defines sin as all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. (no premise that sin is transgression of the law.)

Rom 1:18
¶ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Paul goes on to itemized the sins of the people and why people continued in sinful conduct. If reasoning is permissable why is the law not mentioned in the equation?

Rom 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Rom 1:29
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Think I'll just keep posting this over and over and over and over again. Hey... maybe assign it to a hot key!

The Christian Law, aka The law of Liberty.

1. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

2. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

James 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[VictorC]

No one ever said that is is our salvation! Show who said that!

From the Memory Hole:

Salvation is by Jesus and His Ten commandments, if you have a problem with that take up with Jesus Himself.

Salvation is by Jesus and His redemption as His own purchased possession. Adding to this disallows His redemption.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Think I'll just keep posting this over and over and over and over again. Hey... maybe assign it to a hot key!

The Christian Law, aka The law of Liberty.

1. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

2. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."

James 2:10-12 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Cribstyl]

Think I'll just keep posting this over and over and over and over again. Hey... maybe assign it to a hot key!

The Christian Law, aka The law of Liberty.

1. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

2. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."



God be gracious to me a sinner.

Just for a mild discussion... Could it be possible that the law of liberty is the 2 commandment that you named?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Just for a mild discussion... Could it be possible that the law of liberty is the 2 commandment that you named?

They are the law of liberty.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

 

[Wordkeeper]

In the Garden, Adam could do anything, but not suffer the consequences. There was no pain, sickness or death. Wonderful, one might say, but that is like saying a bicycle with training wheels is wonderful. You can't fall! We know that it is not true, its not wonderful. For one thing, you can't lean into corners. You can't go in between narrow objects, go through hard to access places. This means you can't go fast. And you can't go certain places. A similar limiting situation existed in the Garden.


IOW, in the Garden Adam couldn't reach his full potential. He couldn't exercise his freedom to chose to do good deeds, although he had the ability. He couldn't be fair, not take another person's goods although he was stronger. He couldn't forgive those who stole from his plentiful property. He couldn't sacrifice what was necessary for his own good situation to give to a needy person. Justice, mercy and love. All the stuff that having the image of God enabled him to exercise. All the stuff God Himself exercises.


So God placed a tree in the Garden which gave attractive fruit ,and told Adam not to eat the fruit. What happens? Adam eats the fruit! Resulting in him leaving the Garden and entering into the world where the framework for exercising these qualities exists.


Now Man can manifest the qualities that an image of God entails.


Why was Moses' Law given? Certainly not to give a framework for the law of sin and death to function. IOW, before the Mosaic Law was given, men still died, although they did not sin Adam's sin. IOW, before the Mosaic Law was given, there was already a Law existing, the law written in the hearts of men, that is their consciences. Moses' Law was given to increase sinfulness by giving more precepts, some being quite arbitrary. Eating pork. Wearing garments made of mixed yarn.


By increasing sinfulness, awareness was heightened and the need for overcoming sin, avoiding falling short of meeting the requirements the Law, both its minor as well it main points was spotlighted:


Matthew 23
23"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.


Awareness of our need for God gives life. But the Law led to death. By revealing our inability to meet its requirements. What was supposed to give life led to death! To show how sinful sin really is.


Did the Law benefit Israel? It did. Although the consequences for both Jew and Gentile was the same, with or without the Law, Israel had the oracles, the revelation, the inside information about God's plan. They had the promise and the accompanying hope in that promise. The Gentiles were without hope, never having had direct communication from God.


But Israel did not benefit from the Law. Instead of understanding the fulfillment of God's plan depended on Gods faithfulness to His promise, His righteousness, they tried to create a righteousness of their own. They assigned the role of recipient of God's promise to Abraham's Seed to Israel. Israel was, in their eyes, the receptacle of the role of benefactor to the world. They split the law into halakah, works of the law. This would identify who was a Jew, who was entitled to the rewards resulting from being chosen as God's Instrument. They did not understand that since Isaac was the result of God's action to fulfill his promise to Sarah, Abraham's Seed was also a direct result of God's action. Therefore they stumbled when Christ was sent:


Isaiah 8
14He will be a holy place; for both Israel and Judah he will be a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. And for the people of Jerusalem he will be a trap and a snare.


Romans 9
32Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.


Romans 11
25For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;


Homework assignment


Figure out


What are we saved from?
Why did Jesus keep the Law?
What is the character of the Mosaic Law?


What difference did Christ's coming make?

Free Answer
The Law still exists.
We are not under the Law.
We can meet the requirements of the Law, in Christ.


Before, we had to, were forced to ride the bicycle and fall. The Law of sin and death.


Now we don't have to ride and fall. But we have the ability to ride and reach our destination! That is the Law of Liberty!


Galatians 3:5
So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?


Galatians 3
13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”— 14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Philippians 1:19
for I know that through your prayers and God's provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance.

2 Peter 1:4
For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

 

[from scratch]

From the Memory Hole:

Salvation is by Jesus and His redemption as His own purchased possession. Adding to this disallows His redemption.

 

[Rev Randy]

They are in conflict on Divine Purpose, law and grace.

The essence of that conflict resides in Gods Resistance to evil and alliance to good.

Our difficulties as believers comes when we try to move our evil under grace or our love from God under Law.

No persons evil is under grace nor is it legal, even temporarily.

The sense of detest most grace alone adherents have for legalisms is their obviously lying claims that they are legal. And the legalistic detests denying Gods Words and those who claim their lawlessness is under grace.

These petty conflicts are easily resolved in anyone who is honest about the facts of their sin and it's source, the devil, who will never be legal or under grace.

Every believer seeks to divide themselves from evil if God is in them and more importantly,

...they will not lie.

at the point of honesty the issue is instantly resolved for each of us.

It's not an issue for the law or grace to be against lawlessness, which everyone has regardless of their religious GARB. Neither can or will God be for any persons lawlessness.

In this way God is the enemy of all of us regardless. God was not not not the ally of the evil present with Paul or the ally of the messenger of Satan put upon his flesh.

Nevertheless God used those workings to bring forth the PLEASING FRUIT OF HONESTY in Paul, just as He seeks to bring forth in each of us.

There is factual living freedom in honesty.

s

Howdy guy. Long time no see.

 

[Rev Randy]

Lot's of socks...

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Those are far too clean.

 

[Rev Randy]

Think I'll just keep posting this over and over and over and over again. Hey... maybe assign it to a hot key!

The Christian Law, aka The law of Liberty.

1. "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."

2. "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."



God be gracious to me a sinner.

Shameless reminder.

 

[Elder 111]

Agree to a degree. We are also redeemed from sin. If we follow the leading of the Holy Spirit we've no need of the law. One will be a Christian if they follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit neither leads us to the law nor to sin.

The Holy Spirit is part of The Trinity. It is God that gave the Ten commandments, yet part of the God head would not lead us to the Ten Comandments?
The first Commandment says that we should worship God only but The Holy Spirit will never direct us to that? It would be forsaking grace and faith to worship God and God alone? We will be making the worship of God our means of salvation instead of Jesus!

 

[Cribstyl]

In the Garden, Adam could do anything, but not suffer the consequences. There was no pain, sickness or death. Wonderful, one might say, but that is like saying a bicycle with training wheels is wonderful. You can't fall! We know that it is not true, its not wonderful. For one thing, you can't lean into corners. You can't go in between narrow objects, go through hard to access places. This means you can't go fast. And you can't go certain places. A similar limiting situation existed in the Garden.


IOW, in the Garden Adam couldn't reach his full potential. He couldn't exercise his freedom to chose to do good deeds, although he had the ability. He couldn't be fair, not take another person's goods although he was stronger. He couldn't forgive those who stole from his plentiful property. He couldn't sacrifice what was necessary for his own good situation to give to a needy person. Justice, mercy and love. All the stuff that having the image of God enabled him to exercise. All the stuff God Himself exercises.


So God placed a tree in the Garden which gave attractive fruit ,and told Adam not to eat the fruit. What happens? Adam eats the fruit! Resulting in him leaving the Garden and entering into the world where the framework for exercising these qualities exists.


Now Man can manifest the qualities that an image of God entails.


Why was Moses' Law given? Certainly not to give a framework for the law of sin and death to function. IOW, before the Mosaic Law was given, men still died, although they did not sin Adam's sin. IOW, before the Mosaic Law was given, there was already a Law existing, the law written in the hearts of men, that is their consciences. Moses' Law was given to increase sinfulness by giving more precepts, some being quite arbitrary. Eating pork. Wearing garments made of mixed yarn.


By increasing sinfulness, awareness was heightened and the need for overcoming sin, avoiding falling short of meeting the requirements the Law, both its minor as well it main points was spotlighted:


Matthew 23
23"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.


Awareness of our need for God gives life. But the Law led to death. By revealing our inability to meet its requirements. What was supposed to give life led to death! To show how sinful sin really is.


Did the Law benefit Israel? It did. Although the consequences for both Jew and Gentile was the same, with or without the Law, Israel had the oracles, the revelation, the inside information about God's plan. They had the promise and the accompanying hope in that promise. The Gentiles were without hope, never having had direct communication from God.


But Israel did not benefit from the Law. Instead of understanding the fulfillment of God's plan depended on Gods faithfulness to His promise, His righteousness, they tried to create a righteousness of their own. They assigned the role of recipient of God's promise to Abraham's Seed to Israel. Israel was, in their eyes, the receptacle of the role of benefactor to the world. They split the law into halakah, works of the law. This would identify who was a Jew, who was entitled to the rewards resulting from being chosen as God's Instrument. They did not understand that since Isaac was the result of God's action to fulfill his promise to Sarah, Abraham's Seed was also a direct result of God's action. Therefore they stumbled when Christ was sent:


Isaiah 8
14He will be a holy place; for both Israel and Judah he will be a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. And for the people of Jerusalem he will be a trap and a snare.


Romans 9
32Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.


Romans 11
25For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;


Homework assignment


Figure out


What are we saved from?
Why did Jesus keep the Law?
What is the character of the Mosaic Law?


What difference did Christ's coming make?

Free Answer
The Law still exists.
We are not under the Law.
We can meet the requirements of the Law, in Christ.


Before, we had to, were forced to ride the bicycle and fall. The Law of sin and death.


Now we don't have to ride and fall. But we have the ability to ride and reach our destination! That is the Law of Liberty!


Galatians 3:5
So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?


Galatians 3
13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”— 14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Philippians 1:19
for I know that through your prayers and God's provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance.

2 Peter 1:4
For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

Clue: It's not possible to address everything in such a long post , so I will cut in two halves and add my comments to your post.

 

[Elder 111]

Are you asking the right questions about how God wants us to live or are your questions tailored to look at the glory of the law?
The scriptures explains clearly that Christians are to live by faith. The scriptures explains that seeking righteousness by the law is a big mistake........

Who said anything about seeking righteousness by the law? The law says do not steal. Do you steal? Would that be seeking righteousness by the law? Why don't you walk around with a gun and shoot rape and kill? It is unholy and no Christian should be living that life. Just because some mentions the Ten commandments that tell us to conduct ourselves in a holy manner there is this cry about righteousness by law! Nonsense. When was salvation without faith? Did you read in Hebrews 11 about "by works" or "by faith"? Faith was always and salvation was always only by Christ. Rev. 13:8 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. From Adam is covered in the blood of Christ but the Ten Commandments was then and still is.

Rom 9:30

¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom 9:31
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32
Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Rom 9:33
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Look at your text. The problem was not the law. It was their Faith and the rejection of Christ
Hebrews 8: 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
The problem was not and is not the Ten Commandments. It was and is the people.
Why would God not want is Holy Just and Good law for us?
Romans 7: Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

 

[VictorC]

Who said anything about seeking righteousness by the law?

Changing the verbs while conveying the same meaning is completely unresponsive. Even your OP contains language that hints at salvation via the Ten Commandments.

I will like to know what have been our personal understanding of the Ten Commandments and they relationship in the work of salvation.

A bit of history reveals this is more than a hint.

No one ever said that is is our salvation! Show who said that!

From the Memory Hole:

Salvation is by Jesus and His Ten commandments, if you have a problem with that take up with Jesus Himself.

Salvation is by Jesus and His redemption as His own purchased possession. Adding to this disallows His redemption.

From Adam is covered in the blood of Christ but the Ten Commandments was then and still is.

It should go without saying that if you don't believe the Law, you certainly don't keep the Law.

 

[Elder 111]

Right after you prove the New Covenant isn't current or is the same one as the old one with a few modifications. That simply isn't what the prophets said.

There is nothing to prove. There is no difference in the covenants, for salvation is by one, the man Jesus Christ.

 

[Elder 111]

They are in conflict on Divine Purpose, law and grace.s

They are not! For grace was front the beginning. Why did not Adam and Eve die immediately? Grave! Why did Cain not die for his crime? Grace. What did Noah find/ Grace. Gen. 6: But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
Gen. 3:15 was Grace.

 

[Rev Randy]

They are not! For grace was front the beginning. Why did not Adam and Eve die immediately? Grave! Why did Cain not die for his crime? Grace. What did Noah find/ Grace. Gen. 6: But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
Gen. 3:15 was Grace.

Pretty sure Cain died.

 

[Elder 111]

From the Memory Hole:

Salvation is by Jesus and His redemption as His own purchased possession. Adding to this disallows His redemption.

So you would have us to understand Jesus and His Ten commandments is the same as by the Ten commandments?