The Big Bang (Hypothesis) vs. Creationism

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

An IQ of 170, and the best you can come up with is preaching conspiracy and anti-science in a philosophy forum?

You wanna hear something messed up?

I was on an INTP forum and got kicked off when I came to Christ.

Like IQ and spirituality have anything to do with each other...

Im not aware of any paradigm shift in my mental faculties, I am a much happier person, and not quite the introvert I used to be..

I dont sit around in a Nietszchean black hole funk anymore crying woe is me over existentialism..

I thought I was making progress...

 

[Davian]

You can test to see if God is real, by simply praying to him and asking for him to reveal himself to you. Ill pray for him to reveal himself as well. We all can. May I have your first name? If not no biggee..

Ive brought on a few atheists this way before, but you have to understand that what I am trying to show you not only requires faith in God, but faith that I have absolutely no reason to convince you to come to God other than to experience what happened to me, which is a love based intent, I promise..

What would be the difference between that and an exercise in self-deception?

My position was like yours. I didnt believe in God, and I was positive everything I perceived as objective was and therefor was enough to convince me I was right.

But we dont know anything, we are humans who run around with a label maker and put labels on Gods creation.

We crack an atom and we are nothing but monkeys scratching our heads.

Ok, so we know what quarks are, now what? Nothing.. Everything that is broken down, results in chaos.

When you break your reality into little fragments of pieces, you are left with something that doesnt resemble the original truth.

You are trying to dissect, when you should be assimilating.

I am not convinced I am right, and from the mess you are making here, I see no reason to think you are right.

 

[Davian]

You wanna hear something messed up?

I was on an INTP forum and got kicked off when I came to Christ.

Like IQ and spirituality have anything to do with each other...

Im not aware of any paradigm shift in my mental faculties, I am a much happier person, and not quite the introvert I used to be..

I dont sit around in a Nietszchean black hole funk anymore crying woe is me over existentialism..

I thought I was making progress...

Do you call what you are doing here "progress"?

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

from the mess you are making here,

Relax, lets come to an understanding, or an impasse..

What are your beliefs predicated on concerning your existence? Spirituality?

Its easier to work backwards through you to get to the fundamental issue keeping you from God.

Intellectuals are toughest because we see our world mathematically, logically and at the same time with an imagination that most people may not operate with. Abstract thinking was always my enemy and I never understood why until I realized I was using it for my own selfish understanding, rather than an applicable measure of altruism.

What do use as an objective basis for your morals?


For example, some people say that murder is bad because they will go to jail.

Some people say murder is bad because Buddha said to treat others the way you want to be treated. (Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself).

Some people just know that murder is wrong, and if affects them severely to the point they are sad or upset about it.

Some people just know that murder is wrong, and if affects them severely to the point they are sad or upset about it. They are also convicted by this as they have a reason to know its objectively wrong, because our creator forbids us from killing each other.

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

Do you call what you are doing here "progress"?

The real phrase is "Planting seeds"..

Nothing I am saying to you is for right now, I know that doesnt make much sense to you now, but it will..

 

[usesoap4life]

Your opinion is your opinion and I will not take that away from you. But since we are on a form debating this topic it seems I will say what I think. The earth is proven by science to be over 6000 years old, scientists can age rocks and many other materials with radio-carbon dating, this is a fact, the results are not the same because radio-carbon dating is an estimate and a fairly close one. the big bang, earths age, nor evolution contradict the bible. You must understand that the Old Testament was not written in Western logic, but Eastern logic. If the world was over a billion years old how would it have been explained in the bible? By the way it already is!

The bible constantly uses parables, Job was told his descendants were as numerous as the sands of Egypt, he would not have said that he has 1,879,405 members in his family tree. If he did, Job would not be able to comprehend that large of a number and he would be confused.

Same with creation, God is not going to tell is what happened over billions of years because we cannot fathom that time span, and no one could in the times of the old testament either. Instead I believe that God separated the creation story into important segments because we do not need to know what happened on each individual day.

The Old Testament was written in an ancient form of Hebrew poetry called parallelism. This is when the author says something in a multitude of different ways. The reason behind this is because educated and/or religious figures especially during that time thought that if something is worth saying, then it is worth saying beautifully, hence parallelism. A small example is Genesis chapter 1 verse 1, that is the entire creation story in a nutshell, and there are many other creation stories in the first chapters of Genesis. This is not speculation but fact.

If you are still backing the young earth theory, then how could you count the days the Sun was not created? This makes no sense, considering we need the sun to measure that 24 hour period. When taking into account science, and more importantly parallelism the old earth theory is very much well dignified. Also why wouldn't God take billions of years to create the universe and eventually the earth? Time did not exist, God was not on a schedule and time did not and does not matter to him

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

Your opinion is your opinion and I will not take that away from you. But since we are on a form debating this topic it seems I will say what I think. The earth is proven by science to be over 6000 years old, scientists can age rocks and many other materials with radio-carbon dating, this is a fact, the results are not the same because radio-carbon dating is an estimate and a fairly close one. the big bang, earths age, nor evolution contradict the bible. You must understand that the Old Testament was not written in Western logic, but Eastern logic. If the world was over a billion years old how would it have been explained in the bible? By the way it already is!

The bible constantly uses parables, Job was told his descendants were as numerous as the sands of Egypt, he would not have said that he has 1,879,405 members in his family tree. If he did, Job would not be able to comprehend that large of a number and he would be confused.

Same with creation, God is not going to tell is what happened over billions of years because we cannot fathom that time span, and no one could in the times of the old testament either. Instead I believe that God separated the creation story into important segments because we do not need to know what happened on each individual day.

The Old Testament was written in an ancient form of Hebrew poetry called parallelism. This is when the author says something in a multitude of different ways. The reason behind this is because educated and/or religious figures especially during that time thought that if something is worth saying, then it is worth saying beautifully, hence parallelism. A small example is Genesis chapter 1 verse 1, that is the entire creation story in a nutshell, and there are many other creation stories in the first chapters of Genesis. This is not speculation but fact.

If you are still backing the young earth theory, then how could you count the days the Sun was not created? This makes no sense, considering we need the sun to measure that 24 hour period. When taking into account science, and more importantly parallelism the old earth theory is very much well dignified. Also why wouldn't God take billions of years to create the universe and eventually the earth? Time did not exist, God was not on a schedule and time did not and does not matter to him

Id like to think on the profundity of your statement and get back if thats ok.


Keep in mind Gen 1:3
Gen 1:3 Then God saide, Let there be light: And there was light.

So there was light before anything else..

 

[usesoap4life]

Of course it is sir.

 

[variant]

Like IQ and spirituality have anything to do with each other.

Certainly not, the higher IQ individual is often more than capable of building quite elaborate intellectual defenses of ideas that make them happy.

 

[xXChristPeripheralXx]

Certainly not, the higher IQ individual is often more than capable of building quite elaborate intellectual defenses of ideas that make them happy.

lol, well played..

My experience is one of spirit however, which you receive when you receive Christ.


This is a physical experience, not something you can forget. You wont find Christians disagreeing with me on this, its the most profound experience one can have.

You dont know unless you know.. Kinda like a secret club where everyone is invited. Even you.

 

[variant]

lol, well played..

I'm not kidding, that is my experience.

I know many highly intelligent religious people. So, I know enough to know that it's not about intelligence, it's about HOW you think, not how fast you think.

My experience is one of spirit however, which you receive when you receive Christ.

This is a physical experience, not something you can forget. You wont find Christians disagreeing with me on this, its the most profound experience one can have.

You dont know unless you know.. Kinda like a secret club where everyone is invited. Even you.

I was one for 17 years. It is not really a possibility now because you can't actually force yourself to believe things.

 

[HitchSlap]

Why do Christians insist that we need some type of "objective" morals, when every indication from every society since recorded history suggests we make our own?

 

[freezerman2000]

Id like to think on the profundity of your statement and get back if thats ok.


Keep in mind Gen 1:3
Gen 1:3 Then God saide, Let there be light: And there was light.

So there was light before anything else..

What about Gen 1:1 and 1:2 before He said,let there be light?

 

[variant]

Why do Christians insist that we need some type of "objective" morals, when every indication from every society since recorded history suggests we make our own?

A yearning for solid foundations for what are essentially genetic adaptations.

Morality is an impulse of the social creature, enforcing morality, ideas like fairness and justice, is like water to a thirsty mind.

 

[mathetes123]

A yearning for solid foundations for what are essentially genetic adaptations.

Morality is an impulse of the social creature, enforcing morality, ideas like fairness and justice, is like water to a thirsty mind.

Genesis 6:5 (KJV)
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Psalms 14:1-3 (ESV)
Psalm 14
The Fool Says, There Is No God
To the choirmaster. Of David.
1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven on the children of man,
to see if there are any who understand,
who seek after God.
3 They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt;
there is none who does good,
not even one.

 

[mathetes123]

Why do Christians insist that we need some type of "objective" morals, when every indication from every society since recorded history suggests we make our own?

That's just the point, we make our own false moral standards to suit our lusts, and disregard the true moral standard commanded by our creator.

 

[variant]

Genesis 6:5 (KJV)
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

That isn't my experience of human nature.

 

[mathetes123]

That isn't my experience of human nature.

Do you consider yourself to be a "good" person?

 

[variant]

Do you consider yourself to be a "good" person?

Yes.

 

[mathetes123]

Yes.

Have you ever lied?