The Lord's day.

[from scratch]

And you will probably waste a lot more than that by the time this is over with

http://www.christianforums.com/t7461668/.

Got any predictions when that might be?

 

[Cribstyl]

There is nothing to retract! You have rejected scripture so much that you are saying that I contradict scripture with scripture, rather than admit you are wrong.
If I can contradict scripture with itself it means that scripture itself is flawed, but if it is that scripture is not flawed as we both agreed on. Then you position is what is contradicting scripture, not me.
You a text. Mark 2: 27
And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

If the Sabbath was made for man on what grounds can you exclude anyone?

Reject now, that is the mode you are in and will remain unless God Himself intervenes.

Most SDA are led to believe the text is saying: Sabbath was made at creation for "all men" to follow.
We dont agree that Jesus implied these 2 issues; (A)that sabbath was made for all men, (B)or that sabbath was made at creation.
The scriptures claiming that sabbath was a sign between God and the children of Israel contradicts SDA claim on these issue.

If you love truth over error...... Mark 2:27 is simply saying that sabbath was made for man to enjoy and not to enslave man with restrictions. It does not reference creation. SDA are desparate to take this text out of context because they have no clear scriptures for their 'sabbath at creation' doctrine.

If SDA would consider verse 27 saying"...not man for the sabbath." The argument could be easily made that; Man was not created to keep the sabbath.

SDA claim that God's rest was to set an example for man to keep to the sabbath. That would mean that God created man on the 6th day and taught him how to keep sabbath on the seventh.
There is much biblical evidence to contradict that claim.

 

[VictorC]

Most SDA are led to believe the text is saying: Sabbath was made at creation for "all men" to follow.
We dont agree that Jesus implied these 2 issues; (A)that sabbath was made for all men, (B)or that sabbath was made at creation.
The scriptures claiming that sabbath was a sign between God and the children of Israel contradicts SDA claim on these issue.

If you love truth over error...... Mark 2:27 is simply saying that sabbath was made for man to enjoy and not to enslave man with restrictions. It does not reference creation. SDA are desparate to take this text out of context because they have no clear scriptures for their 'sabbath at creation' doctrine.

If SDA would consider verse 27 saying"...not man for the sabbath." The argument could be easily made that; Man was not created to keep the sabbath.

SDA claim that God's rest was to set an example for man to keep to the sabbath. That would mean that God created man on the 6th day and taught him how to keep sabbath on the seventh.
There is much biblical evidence to contradict that claim.

I agree with you, and note that the contradictions can't be reconciled within Adventism.

A point I made before is that the SDA claim for a creation origin of the sabbath contradicts their own pet verse from Mark 2:27, where Jesus stated that the sabbath was made for man - and they miss that it wasn't created for God. It wasn't God's rest, and they can't tell the difference between God's rest and the sabbath that has an entirely different origin. Where Hebrews 4:3 states "we who have believed do enter that rest", referring to God's "My rest", the Adventist contradiction excludes His rest and doesn't acknowledge it at all.

 

[Cribstyl]

I agree with you, and note that the contradictions can't be reconciled within Adventism.

A point I made before is that the SDA claim for a creation origin of the sabbath contradicts their own pet verse from Mark 2:27, where Jesus stated that the sabbath was made for man - and they miss that it wasn't created for God. It wasn't God's rest, and they can't tell the difference between God's rest and the sabbath that has an entirely different origin. Where Hebrews 4:3 states "we who have believed do enter that rest", referring to God's "My rest", the Adventist contradiction excludes His rest and doesn't acknowledge it at all.

Agreement.

God's word is written for us to apply to understand rather than added doctrine. We should say yes and amen to what is written rather than add ideas that contradicts other parts of scriptures.

 

[Elder 111]

Most SDA are led to believe the text is saying: Sabbath was made at creation for "all men" to follow.
We dont agree that Jesus implied these 2 issues; (A)that sabbath was made for all men, (B)or that sabbath was made at creation.
The scriptures claiming that sabbath was a sign between God and the children of Israel contradicts SDA claim on these issue.

If you love truth over error...... Mark 2:27 is simply saying that sabbath was made for man to enjoy and not to enslave man with restrictions. It does not reference creation. SDA are desparate to take this text out of context because they have no clear scriptures for their 'sabbath at creation' doctrine.

If SDA would consider verse 27 saying"...not man for the sabbath." The argument could be easily made that; Man was not created to keep the sabbath.

SDA claim that God's rest was to set an example for man to keep to the sabbath. That would mean that God created man on the 6th day and taught him how to keep sabbath on the seventh.
There is much biblical evidence to contradict that claim.

If the Sabbath was not make at creation when was it make? What does Genesis 2:2-3 refer to?
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
If God did not refer to Creation seventh day rest in the 4th Commandment what did He refer to?

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[Albion]

Well, the poll's been up for quite a while now. Looks like over 60% of the respondents reject the idea that Saturday must be forever the primary day of worship.

 

[rstrats]

I don't see where the poll says anything about a day for worship.

 

[VictorC]

If the Sabbath was not make at creation when was it make? What does Genesis 2:2-3 refer to?

I have asked you many times to show us where God ended His rest - and you never addressed the question.
I asked you to show me where the inhabitants of Barbados were given the covenant from Mount Sinai and the sabbath contained therein - and you never addressed this, other than contradict the Law and dismiss its testimony.
I asked you to reconcile your view with Exodus 31 specifying that the sabbath was exclusive to the children of Israel - and you decided that contradicting Scripture was just the most dandy thing you were happy with.

With no Biblical authority, you can't support the distinctives you promote here.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
If God did not refer to Creation seventh day rest in the 4th Commandment what did He refer to?

Genesis 2 is quite specific in documenting God's rest, which is quoted again in Hebrews 4:4 as a promise that mankind had not attained during the sabbath's tenure.

Where oh where do you see anything about a '4th Commandment' or where man ended his work and rested? It isn't there.

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now quote Deuteronomy 5:15, and see for yourself that it uses the same sentence structure Exodus 20:11 does - showing a historical impetus (reason) to ordain the sabbath. It is necessary that the impetus precedes the logical result that is equally dependent on deliverance from Egyptian bondage. How many experienced the exodus? Only one people did, and the sabbath's exclusiveness to this one people is entirely consistent with Exodus 31:13 assigning the sabbath to the children of Israel.

 

[VictorC]

We should say yes and amen to what is written rather than add ideas that contradicts other parts of scriptures.

I will go a step further than 'should' to say we must accept what the whole body of Scripture says as requisite to the faith entrusted to us. Additions that are contrary to God's Word lead only to heresies.

 

[Albion]

I don't see where the poll says anything about a day for worship.

Nonetheless, a reading of the posts shows that most people answered with that (Sunday worship and the Commandment about the Sabbath) in mind.

 

[Cribstyl]

If the Sabbath was not make at creation when was it make? What does Genesis 2:2-3 refer to?
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The questions SDA often asks creates doctrines from the silence.
Ex 16 shows that sabbath was made to prove(test) the Children of Israel because they were stiffnecked and wishing to go back to Egypt. Ex 16:25 shows the exact date and the people that sabbath was first given.Exd 16:25
And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
Why ignor the written truth and teach questionable doctrines?
....................................................................
What we can apply about Gen 2:1-3 is clear;
Gen 2:1
¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Gen 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

A. God had finished the heavens and the earth, all of it. (Gen 2:1) (Clue: no more work to do.)
B. God had ended His work (commentary about working 6days and resting with Adam is a contradiction that undermines God's word)
C. God rested on the seventh day..... No discussion about Adam, or giving man rest.
D. As far as we can read, there are no other days to consider than the first 7 days according to Gen 1-2:3.
E. God rested on the seventh does not directly mean that God rested on the sabbath day.

If God did not refer to Creation seventh day rest in the 4th Commandment what did He refer to?


10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This commentary is designed to create an equation by combining these scripture.
The fact that sabbath was already given in Ex16:23 and 25 as "sabbath unto the Lord", does shed some light on whether sabbath of the Lord means God's seventh day rest from creation.

 

[Cribstyl]

I will go a step further than 'should' to say we must accept what the whole body of Scripture says as requisite to the faith entrusted to us. Additions that are contrary to God's Word lead only to heresies.

Agreed

 

[Elder 111]

Well, the poll's been up for quite a while now. Looks like over 60% of the respondents reject the idea that Saturday must be forever the primary day of worship.

Look so! But ofcourse the majority is in the wrong. Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

 

[Elder 111]

I have asked you many times to show us where God ended His rest - and you never addressed the question.
I asked you to show me where the inhabitants of Barbados were given the covenant from Mount Sinai and the sabbath contained therein - and you never addressed this, other than contradict the Law and dismiss its testimony.
I asked you to reconcile your view with Exodus 31 specifying that the sabbath was exclusive to the children of Israel - and you decided that contradicting Scripture was just the most dandy thing you were happy with.

With no Biblical authority, you can't support the distinctives you promote here.

Genesis 2 is quite specific in documenting God's rest, which is quoted again in Hebrews 4:4 as a promise that mankind had not attained during the sabbath's tenure.

Where oh where do you see anything about a '4th Commandment' or where man ended his work and rested? It isn't there.



Now quote Deuteronomy 5:15, and see for yourself that it uses the same sentence structure Exodus 20:11 does - showing a historical impetus (reason) to ordain the sabbath. It is necessary that the impetus precedes the logical result that is equally dependent on deliverance from Egyptian bondage. How many experienced the exodus? Only one people did, and the sabbath's exclusiveness to this one people is entirely consistent with Exodus 31:13 assigning the sabbath to the children of Israel.

What you have done is to ignore and circumventing certain passages to form a theology that is not biblical.
It is too blatant.

 

[Elder 111]

The questions SDA often asks creates doctrines from the silence.
Ex 16 shows that sabbath was made to prove the Children of Israel because they were stiffnecked....... Ex 16:25 shows us the exact date and the people that sabbath was first given to.Exd 16:25
And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.


What we can apply to knowledge about Gen 2:1-3 is clear;
Gen 2:1
¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Gen 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

A. God had finished the heavens and the earth, all of it. (Gen 2:1) (Clue: no more work to do.)
B. God had ended His work (commentary about working 6days and resting with Adam is a contradiction that undermines God's word)
C. God rested on the seventh day..... No discussion about Adam, or giving man rest.
D. As far as we can read, there are no other days to consider than the first 7 days according to Gen 1-2:3.
E. God rested on the seventh does not directly mean that God rested on the sabbath day.


This commentary is designed to create an equation by combining these scripture.
The fact that sabbath was already given in Ex16:23 and 25 as "sabbath unto the Lord", does shed some light on whether sabbath of the Lord means God's seventh day rest from creation.

You do realize that it was God that was speaking in Ex. 20, and that He it is that tied the Sabbath to the Seventh day and the creation.

 

[Elder 111]

Nonetheless, a reading of the posts shows that most people answered with that (Sunday worship and the Commandment about the Sabbath) in mind.

In order to support Lord's day refers to Sunday, it seems that the Sabbath has to be dismissed.

 

[Sophrosyne]

In order to support Lord's day refers to Sunday, it seems that the Sabbath has to be dismissed.

You are welcome to keep it, Christians have their own day apart from the practice of Judaism. I believe that they gathered on Sunday because many of the Christians were still Jewish and were not willing to give up practicing Judaism so some worshipped with the Jews under the Law and then on Sunday gathered with Christians.

 

[VictorC]

What you have done is to ignore and circumventing certain passages to form a theology that is not biblical.
It is too blatant.

You didn't address anything that I posted, and didn't answer the question I asked you. It shows that you aren't basing your theology on Scripture when you can't provide support for your views.

 

[VictorC]

You do realize that it was God that was speaking in Ex. 20, and that He it is that tied the Sabbath to the Seventh day and the creation.

Why do you think others aren't aware of Who is speaking the Words of the Covenant from Mount Sinai?
To divert attention from any points raised in the post, that's why.

 

[from scratch]

You do realize that it was God that was speaking in Ex. 20, and that He it is that tied the Sabbath to the Seventh day and the creation.

Do you realize that God the Father was speaking only to Israel?

Eze 20:12 Says God gave Israel the Sabbath.

That isn't new material from Ezekiel either. Moses said the same thing in Ex 31:13.