The War Against Israel: 1948 to Present

[BlandOatmeal]

Well, he seems to have been bluffing all this time. And it always seems to be 'the Iranians will get a nuclear weapon by the end of the year!'... this has been for years now.

Israel attacking Iran would be catastrophic, and would pave the way for Sunni powers like Saudi Arabia to dominate the region. And Wahhabi Saudi Arabia is a much bigger threat to Israel than some jokers in Tehran.

I beg to differ, Supreme. Those "jokers" in Tehran fought the bloodiest Middle East war in recent history with Iraq in the 1980s, have been the puppeteers of Hizbullah's continual terrorist activity, and have been keeping the Syrian war fueled for 2½ years. For them to be allowed to have nuclear weapons would be unthinkable.

You talk about continual bluffing. The only continual bluffing I've been hearing, is this "catastrophic war" that would break out if Iran were castrated. This talk has not abated for years, as the Arabs and Iranians have been fighting one intensely bloody war after another without any Israeli involvement.

Putting aside the anti-Jewish hype, the French have been coolly assessing the situation; and they are siding with the Israelis and Saudis:

Hollande and Netanyahu to consider forming a joint French-Israeli-Arab front against Iran
DEBKAfile Exclusive Analysis November 16, 2013, 4:10 PM (IDT)

-- Hollande and Netanyahu to consider forming a joint French-Israeli-Arab front against Iran

This is for real. Obama has left a serious vacuum in the Middle East, by abandoning Israel and courting the Iranians. The Russians have already stepped in, and have more than replaced the US as Egypt's main arms supplier. The French can see what is happening, and are not about to let Israel switch -- out of desperation -- to the Russians as well.

Vive le France!​

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Hello, Autumn

You seemed to be throwing the ball to SharonL for response... prehaps. Or, as Zeek seems to have wondered, you might just be blurting out anti-Jewishisms or anti-Israelitisms. For what it's worth, let's get what you said in perspective:

Israel has nukes of its own...

I don't doubt this, though I have no idea how many, who they're pointed at, etc. I have spent 64 of my 65 years in nuclear-armed countries -- the US and China. I haven't felt any distress because of this, because I know that both countries are nuclear-armed for purely defensive reasons. In fact, I WOULD feel very uneasy, if the US were to unilaterally disarm.

You know, of course, that it was a Jew, Albert Einstein, who warned US President Roosevelt of Hitler's capability to produce nuclear weapons; and we inaugurated the Manhattan Project in response.

Two other Jews, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, passed vital information on that project to our Soviet allies, of course. Our British allies, of course, had this information all along; but because of the Cold War, this act of the Rosenbergs became the beginning of nuclear proliferation.

I might as well also say that Enrico Fermi, another Jew, was one of the principal scientists actually building the Bomb. While still working on the project, he was of the opinion that nuclear technology, including bomb-making capability, should be internationalized. The fact that he did not have his way, is the main reason we spent some 60 years dealing with only a handful of nuclear states instead of dozens.

When you note, then, that Israel may posess nuclear weapons, forgive me to not be profoundly moved: The Jews have been privy to nuclear technology, literally, since before the first A-bomb or H-bomb was produced. It is to their GREAT credit, therefore, that they have never used this technology in a malicious way.

If the Iranians had such a track record, I might be somewhat more at ease about their having nuclear weapons. As things stand, though, they have repeatedly announced their intention to wipe the Jewish Homeland off the map; and I am very supportive of the idea of stopping them.

The US also gives Israel around 3 billions dollars in Federal aid per year, much of which is spend on military hardware...

The Russians have just concluded a deal with the Egyptians, to supply them with FOUR billion dollars worth of advanced weaponry. As the Russians themselves said, "If one player pulls out of the arms trade, another will take his place."

"Yet, Israel receives more of America’s foreign aid budget than any other nation.[4] The US has, in fact, given more aid to Israel than it has to all the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America, and the Caribbean combined—which have a total population of over a billion people.[5]"

The US has never had much interest in arming Sub-Saharan Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean, with good reason.

Shalom shalom

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Is there a reason for this, a context a justification perhaps?

Hello, Zeke

I just wanted to let you know I welcome your comments here. I took the liberty to look up your posting history. Your views on the Jews and Israel are complicated and interesting, and definitely not stereotypical.

You mentioned in one place, that you were against the Jews partly because of their past history with Communism, Atheism and Secularism. Those three "isms" certainly have their places in today's general warfare against the Bible and against religion in general; but the first great secular nation was the United States; Karl Marx did much of his study in England, and Eighteenth-Century thinkers in France, including some priests, brought Atheism to Western Europe. These were not peculiarly "Jewish" enterprises -- they were brought to us primarily through professing Christians in Christian countries.

Concerning Stalin's covert support of Israel, I thank God for it! Before the British quit Palestine, they largely disarmed the Jews there, leaving them open to an onslaught by the professional armed forces of five Arab states. US President Harry Truman was instrumental in bringing Israel into BEING; but he and his country honored a complete arms embargo against the Jews throughout the War of Israeli Independence. If it weren't for the Czech weapons supplied by the Russians (mostly captured Nazi arms), the Jews of Israel would have been massacred en masse.

You might also note that in his last days, Stalin turned against the Jews.

 

[BlandOatmeal]

_______ This overview going back further in history, brings out how private occupation eventually impacts a whole region.

Hi, Parsley. I don't use Flash Player on my main browser, because it is so unstable; so I didn't view your video. Were there some main points you wanted to get across?

 

[Zeek]

Hello, Zeke

I just wanted to let you know I welcome your comments here. I took the liberty to look up your posting history. Your views on the Jews and Israel are complicated and interesting, and definitely not stereotypical.

You mentioned in one place, that you were against the Jews partly because of their past history with Communism, Atheism and Secularism. Those three "isms" certainly have their places in today's general warfare against the Bible and against religion in general; but the first great secular nation was the United States; Karl Marx did much of his study in England, and Eighteenth-Century thinkers in France, including some priests, brought Atheism to Western Europe. These were not peculiarly "Jewish" enterprises -- they were brought to us primarily through professing Christians in Christian countries.

Concerning Stalin's covert support of Israel, I thank God for it! Before the British quit Palestine, they largely disarmed the Jews there, leaving them open to an onslaught by the professional armed forces of five Arab states. US President Harry Truman was instrumental in bringing Israel into BEING; but he and his country honored a complete arms embargo against the Jews throughout the War of Israeli Independence. If it weren't for the Czech weapons supplied by the Russians (mostly captured Nazi arms), the Jews of Israel would have been massacred en masse.

You might also note that in his last days, Stalin turned against the Jews.

Lol, I can imagine you find my views complicated and interesting because you have got a bit muddled up with user name Zeek which is me and another user called Zeke which ain't me. I have never been against the Jewish people and am 100% a Zionist in the best possible sense of the word.

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Lol, I can imagine you find my views complicated and interesting because you have got a bit muddled up with user name Zeek which is me and another user called Zeke which ain't me. I have never been against the Jewish people and am 100% a Zionist in the best possible sense of the word.

Zeek,

If my getting confused gets you postig here, I hope to get confused more often

Here's some breaking news:

President Hollande due for three-day state visit to Israel
DEBKAfile November 17, 2013, 7:58 AM (GMT+02:00)

-- President Hollande due for three-day state visit to Israel

and

Mossad and Saudis work on contingency plans for attack on Iran
DEBKAfile November 17, 2013, 8:08 AM (GMT+02:00)

-- Mossad and Saudis work on contingency plans for attack on Iran

and

Washington Post: Israel to provide Arabian Gulf with defense shield
DEBKAfile November 17, 2013, 8:17 AM (GMT+02:00)

-- Washington Post: Israel to provide Arabian Gulf with defense shield

I've never seen a triple-banger like that from DEBKA. Taken together, these articles, if true, represent a radical departure from years of Israeli dealings with their monarchist neighbors. Israel has dealt with the Saudis in the past, but always sub rosa. This time around, it almost seems as though they're shouting out the matter.

What do you think, Zeek? This seems like a love-hate triangle: The Saudis are hotly against the Iranians, yet they are putting up the money for the Egyptians to form a military partnership with the Russians. The Russians, in turn, are cozy with the Iranians. Something here's wired with a crossover cable.

I think the Saudis and Israelis alike would like to know where the French stand. Two months ago, all three were on the same side as the Turks, who have no love for either the Saudis nor the Israelis; and the Turks themselves have only been a step behind Obama in courting Tehran. The showdown in Geneva, therefore, looks like it's leading to a "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" showdown -- nobody can be quite sure which side anyone's on.

 

[apache1]

I say the U.S. stays the hell out of the region and let the Israelis take care of the situation there. They know how to deal with terrorists and crazoids.

 

[BlandOatmeal]

I say the U.S. stays the hell out of the region and let the Israelis take care of the situation there. They know how to deal with terrorists and crazoids.

Hello, Apache

I agree, that Israel is the one best able to deal with Israel's problems. That said, there is no lack of love for America from Israel's end. Current Prime Minister Netanyahu has deep connections with the US. He also has a distinguished military record. His brother was killed while leading the hostage rescue at Entebbe in 1973. The remarkable thing about Israel is that there are many others like him, who would sacrifice everything for the sake of their people.

On the American end of the partnership, we have... uh... Barack Obama... who... uh... (bless and curse not bless and curse not).

Benjamin Netanyahu

"...Born in Tel Aviv to secular Jewish parents,[2] Netanyahu is the first Israeli prime minister born in Israel after the establishment of the state. Netanyahu joined the Israel Defense Forces during the Six-Day War in 1967, and became a team leader in the Sayeret Matkal special forces unit. He took part in many missions, including Operation Inferno (1968), Operation Gift (1968) and Operation Isotope (1972), during which he was shot in the shoulder. He fought on the front lines in the War of Attrition and the Yom Kippur War in 1973...

"Between 1956 and 1958, and again from 1963 to 1967,[16] his family lived in the United States in Cheltenham Township, Pennsylvania, a suburb of Philadelphia, where he attended and graduated from the Cheltenham High School and was active in a debate club. To this day, he speaks American English with a Philadelphia accent.[17] After graduating from high school in 1967, Netanyahu returned to Israel to enlist in the IDF...

"After his army service, Netanyahu returned to the United States in late 1972 to study architecture at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He returned to Israel in October 1973 to serve in the Yom Kippur War for a 40 day period.[19] While there, he fought in special forces raids along the Suez Canal, as well as leading a commando team deep into Syrian territory. He then returned to the United States and eventually completed an S.B.[20] degree in architecture[21] in 1975 and earned an S.M.[20] degree from the MIT Sloan School of Management in 1977. Concurrently, he studied political science at Harvard University..."

-- Benjamin Netanyahu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Zeek]

Zeek,

If my getting confused gets you postig here, I hope to get confused more often

Lol...very gracious of you mate.

Here's some breaking news:

President Hollande due for three-day state visit to Israel
DEBKAfile November 17, 2013, 7:58 AM (GMT+02:00)

-- President Hollande due for three-day state visit to Israel

and

Mossad and Saudis work on contingency plans for attack on Iran
DEBKAfile November 17, 2013, 8:08 AM (GMT+02:00)

-- Mossad and Saudis work on contingency plans for attack on Iran

and

Washington Post: Israel to provide Arabian Gulf with defense shield
DEBKAfile November 17, 2013, 8:17 AM (GMT+02:00)

-- Washington Post: Israel to provide Arabian Gulf with defense shield

I've never seen a triple-banger like that from DEBKA. Taken together, these articles, if true, represent a radical departure from years of Israeli dealings with their monarchist neighbors. Israel has dealt with the Saudis in the past, but always sub rosa. This time around, it almost seems as though they're shouting out the matter.

What do you think, Zeek? This seems like a love-hate triangle: The Saudis are hotly against the Iranians, yet they are putting up the money for the Egyptians to form a military partnership with the Russians. The Russians, in turn, are cozy with the Iranians. Something here's wired with a crossover cable.

I think the Saudis and Israelis alike would like to know where the French stand. Two months ago, all three were on the same side as the Turks, who have no love for either the Saudis nor the Israelis; and the Turks themselves have only been a step behind Obama in courting Tehran. The showdown in Geneva, therefore, looks like it's leading to a "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" showdown -- nobody can be quite sure which side anyone's on.

I really don't have a great handle on all the intricacies of what is panning out and the peculiar relationships involved between all the various factions and regimes. My approach is much looser and I paint the situation with broader brush-strokes, mainly because I don't have the time or inclination to get down to gritty details, but also because everything is in flux, and just as one thinks you have a certain group pinned down and sussed out...something comes along, other contradictory information surfaces and what was neat and tidy becomes really messy.

I don't try and second guess who may do what to whom, and when and why it might happen...but I am currently expecting over an unspecified period of time..less and less real support from the US, more urgency in Islamic quests to attack Israel, the rise of full-blown Christian anti-Semitism and the gradual isolation of Israel....possibly speeded up if they are forced conduct a localised and contained nuclear attack.

 

[apache1]

Hello, Apache

I agree, that Israel is the one best able to deal with Israel's problems. That said, there is no lack of love for America from Israel's end. Current Prime Minister Netanyahu has deep connections with the US. He also has a distinguished military record. His brother was killed while leading the hostage rescue at Entebbe in 1973. The remarkable thing about Israel is that there are many others like him, who would sacrifice everything for the sake of their people.

On the American end of the partnership, we have... uh... Barack Obama... who... uh... (bless and curse not bless and curse not).

Benjamin Netanyahu

"...Born in Tel Aviv to secular Jewish parents,[2] Netanyahu is the first Israeli prime minister born in Israel after the establishment of the state. Netanyahu joined the Israel Defense Forces during the Six-Day War in 1967, and became a team leader in the Sayeret Matkal special forces unit. He took part in many missions, including Operation Inferno (1968), Operation Gift (1968) and Operation Isotope (1972), during which he was shot in the shoulder. He fought on the front lines in the War of Attrition and the Yom Kippur War in 1973...

"Between 1956 and 1958, and again from 1963 to 1967,[16] his family lived in the United States in Cheltenham Township, Pennsylvania, a suburb of Philadelphia, where he attended and graduated from the Cheltenham High School and was active in a debate club. To this day, he speaks American English with a Philadelphia accent.[17] After graduating from high school in 1967, Netanyahu returned to Israel to enlist in the IDF...

"After his army service, Netanyahu returned to the United States in late 1972 to study architecture at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He returned to Israel in October 1973 to serve in the Yom Kippur War for a 40 day period.[19] While there, he fought in special forces raids along the Suez Canal, as well as leading a commando team deep into Syrian territory. He then returned to the United States and eventually completed an S.B.[20] degree in architecture[21] in 1975 and earned an S.M.[20] degree from the MIT Sloan School of Management in 1977. Concurrently, he studied political science at Harvard University..."

-- Benjamin Netanyahu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

God Bless Israel. My take on it is U.S. needs to stay out of Middle East. As far as supporting Israel militarily, quietly give them aid and support in other ways, I just don't want to see our troops in Iraq-style quagmires.

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Lol...very gracious of you mate.

I really don't have a great handle on all the intricacies of what is panning out and the peculiar relationships involved between all the various factions and regimes. My approach is much looser and I paint the situation with broader brush-strokes, mainly because I don't have the time or inclination to get down to gritty details, but also because everything is in flux, and just as one thinks you have a certain group pinned down and sussed out...something comes along, other contradictory information surfaces and what was neat and tidy becomes really messy.

It is indeed a messy situation, and the "gritty details" seem to see-saw -- like the ball in a football game. It's a nuclear ball, so I keep my eyes on it.

I don't try and second guess who may do what to whom, and when and why it might happen...but I am currently expecting over an unspecified period of time..less and less real support from the US,

I see this too, and I expect it from the scriptures:

Ezek 38
[12] To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
[13] Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?

Sheba and Dedan were on the Red Sea, and the Sea of Tarshish was the Mediterranean. Together, they represent the Gulf states and West Europeans and Americans. Note that all are BYSTANDERS when Magog (Turkey) attacks Israel. That part of the equation is pretty much already in place.

more urgency in Islamic quests to attack Israel, the rise of full-blown Christian anti-Semitism and the gradual isolation of Israel....possibly speeded up if they are forced conduct a localised and contained nuclear attack.

I expect Israel to get blamed for everything that goes wrong in the world -- from Obamacare to cyclones to the Depression to chemical and nuclear weapons. We already have a President who's a consumate blame-shifter, and the Jews are the ultimate scapegoat.

Thanks for the input, Zeek. BTW, I haven't been called "mate" much in the 40-odd years since returning from Australia. It sounds good.

Cheers

 

[BlandOatmeal]

God Bless Israel. My take on it is U.S. needs to stay out of Middle East. As far as supporting Israel militarily, quietly give them aid and support in other ways, I just don't want to see our troops in Iraq-style quagmires.

May God also bless you, Apache1!

I agree with you, about not wanting the US involved in another war -- in the Middle East or elsewhere.

During the 1960 Presidential election campaign, then-Senator John F. Kennedy enunciated a Cold War strategy of containing the Soviets and Chinese, that involved helping newly-independent countries fight for "freedom" against Communist infiltration. He offended some of our long-standing allies in doing so -- like the French, who were embroiled at the time in a struggle to maintain their foothold in Algeria against the Muslims.

Across the world at the time, Kennedy had a problem: the "natives", as Kennedy called the citizens of the newly-independent countries generally SUPPORTED Soviet inroads (as in Egypt and Cuba), in preference to US involvement. Kennedy thought he had found an exception in South Vietnam, where an influential Catholic, Francophile minority supported the dictator, Ngô Đình Diệm.

Unbeknownst to Kennedy, the US Ammbassador to Vietnam, Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr., an old political competitor of the President, conspired with others to have Diệm assassinated. The Communists rejoiced when this happened, saying,

"The consequences of the 1 November coup d'état will be contrary to the calculations of the U.S. imperialists ... Diệm was one of the strongest individuals resisting the people and Communism. Everything that could be done in an attempt to crush the revolution was carried out by Diệm. Diệm was one of the most competent lackeys of the U.S. imperialists ... Among the anti-Communists in South Vietnam or exiled in other countries, no one has sufficient political assets and abilities to cause others to obey. Therefore, the lackey administration cannot be stabilized. The coup d'état on 1 November 1963 will not be the last."

-- Ngo Dinh Diem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What followed, was twelve years of US military involvement in Vietnam, with ever-increasing numbers of young Americans fighting and dying to shore up one ineffective leader after another, until the Communists delivered us a crushing and humiliating defeat.

The American people were defeated in Vietnam by the scheming and treachery of their own govenment -- just as they have been today, all over the Middle East, by the duplicity of our treacherous leader. I would not want my childeren or grandchildren, or anyone else's, to have to fight and die in his service -- not in the Middle East, not anywhere.

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Ben Stein's Diary
Is This Really Happening?
Obama accedes to Israel's possible annihilation.

By Ben Stein

"...For Mr. Obama to trust these people—the same ones who killed 300 Marines in a terror attack in Beirut 30 years ago last month—to actually change their stripes and suddenly become trustworthy is deeply naive or worse. If that trust turns out to be mistaken, it’s a bad day for Mr. Obama. It’s death for Israel..."

-- Is This Really Happening? | The American Spectator

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Minister Bennett: Now is Most Fateful Time for Israel Since Yom Kippur War
November 19, 2013 1:45 am

MK Naftali Bennett
​

"On a mission in the U.S. to represent Israel’s position on the ongoing nuclear talks between Iran and world powers, the Jewish state’s Economy Minister Naftali Bennett was blunt and to the point, speaking before a crowd at Manhattan’s 92nd Street Y Sunday.

"“It is the most fateful days since the Yom Kippur War in Israel,” he said, referring to the time since the founding of modern Israel that the country was most in peril...."

-- Minister Bennett: Now is Most Fateful Time for Israel Since Yom Kippur War | Jewish & Israel News Algemeiner.com

Samson Option

"...In the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Arab forces were overwhelming Israeli forces and Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized a nuclear alert and ordered 13 atomic bombs be readied for use by missiles and aircraft. The Israeli Ambassador warned President Nixon of “very serious conclusions" if the United States did not airlift supplies. Nixon complied. This is seen by some commentators on the subject as the first threat of the use of the Samson Option..."

-- Samson Option - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nuclear-capable Israeli Dolphin-class submarine
​

 

[BlandOatmeal]

WE ARE NOT ALONE: WORLD NUCLEAR DELIVERY CAPABILITIES, AND BUILDUP IN THE MIDDLE EAST

I was going to simply post some news briefs from Iran; but instead was able to compound the following:

Video: China's nuclear submarines fire underwater rockets

"For the first time in over 40 years, China has revealed its first fleet of nuclear submarines, which fired rockets from under the water. . Report by Sophie F..."

-- China's nuclear submarines fire underwater rockets - YouTube

That's just a reminder, that we are not alone. The nuclear club at the moment includes six countries that have not only nuclear missiles, but delivery systems that allow them to explode them in any country on earth:

1. The US
2. Russia
3. the UK
4. France
5. PR China
6. India

All the above countries have NUCLEAR SUBMARINES with BALLISTIC MISSILE capacity. They also have launched heavy satellites into orbit with large enough payloads to be nuclear bombs. Two other states, Israel and Pakistan, have both nuclear stockpiles and IRBMs with which to deliver them for thousands of miles. North Korea and Iran are also eager to enter this club.

All of the above countries pose potential nuclear threats, well beyond their borders; but the first six have a known world-wide reach already in place. The Biblical significance of this, is the prophecy in Zechariah 14 regarding the final battle of this age. I will not discuss that battle in detail right now, because it is not immediately connected with events in the Middle East at the moment. For today's crises, just bear in mind the DANGER OF AN ACCIDENTAL EXCHANGE (NOT involving either Iran or Israel) that looms in the background of all nuclear-related discussions.

At this point, I also want to point out the DEPLOYMENT of both Indian and Chinese assets in the Middle East:

-- Australia by the Indian Ocean
​

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsml0LaTgFs&h=RAQGkg-Uo&s=1

 

[BlandOatmeal]

MIDDLE EAST PEACE IN THE MAKING

There's a lot of BS circulating in the media about a "Middle East Peace Process", orchestrated by the US and others, to make "peace" between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs (two groups between which there has been the LEAST amount of warfare in the past year, while the rest of the Middle East is in flames). That process has less substance and staying power than a bad f a r t. Meanwhile, there is a REAL "peace process" going on -- between Israel and Saudi Arabia:

نبض اسرائل
Pulse
View Pulse Map בעברית

​

The young star of "Wadjda" looking at a bicycle, in the film about a Saudi girl who longs to ride a bicycle in a country that forbids her. (photo by Tobias Kownatzki / Sony Pictures Classics)
Saudi film captivates Israeli moviegoers

Read more: Saudi film captivates Israeli moviegoers - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

The significance of the film about that little girl, is that

1. it prompted Saudi authorities to actually make a RELIGIOUS CHANGE, allowing little girls now to ride bicycles, and

2. Israelis are activiely participating in this process by airing and viewing the film.

Peace will not come to the Middle East, until RELIGIOUS BARRIERS begin to crumble. Here is a barrier beginning to crumble, and it is being watched from both sides of the wall.

Very interestingly, this cultural breakthrough is accompanied with OPENLY AIRED reports of close military and intelligence cooperation between Egypt, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Israel. Isaiah 19 comes to mind.

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Three Saudi warships arrive in Egypt for joint exercises
Egypt News | Wednesday | 11/20/2013 11:51 AM

​

SAFAGA - MASRAWY:

"Three Saudi Arabian warships arrived at the Safaga port on the Red Sea in Egypt in order to take part in unofficial joint military exercises, the training will last for 10 days..."

-- Three Saudi warships arrive in Egypt for joint exercises

Saudi-Egyptian joint military exercises have been going on for three years now, with Iran in mind as the adversary.

Middle East
16:57, 15 November 2013 Friday
French and Saudi Arabian forces have combined in a joint military exercise near in holy city of Mecca.

"France and Saudi Arabia have held a joint military exercise near the holy city of Mecca as the two nations draw closer to one another following France’s strong stance against Saudi Arabia’s rival state Iran in last week’s P5+1 meetings..."

-- France and Saudi Arabia in joint military drill near Mecca | Middle East | World Bulletin

meanwhile,

'Pro-Israel' France Supports anti-Israel Groups, Too
Support over Iran notwithstanding, investigation reveals how French gov't directly bankrolls a range of radical anti-Israel NGOs.
By David Lev
First Publish: 11/20/2013, 12:04 PM

-- 'Pro-Israel' France Supports anti-Israel Groups - Defense/Security - News - Israel National News

It's tough to call these political & military maneuvers. I believe Saudi Arabia and Israel are working together, under the table. The same applies for Egypt and Israel. Saudi Arabia-UAE-Oman, France, Egypt and Yemen are openly functioning in unison as well. In immediate practical terms, though, this latter group seems to be cooperating primarily to combat Somali piracy and to keep the shipping lanes from France to the Persian Gulf open.

The role of Russia in this group demands some monitoring. Russia is drawing closer to Saudi Arabia, an enemy of Iran. China, meanwhile, is drawing closer to India, which has strong links to both Russia and Israel. The United States, meanwhile, is of course drawing inward and away from reality. The whole situation is VERY fluid.

At present, I would say France is aligning with Egypt and the Peninsular Arabs in Middle East politics. Israel is still very much a separate entity politically, sharing its closest interests with Cyprus, Greece, the Caucasus and East Africa. The Iranian problem is, for the moment, skewing these relationships.

 

[rakovsky]

Ben Stein's Diary
Is This Really Happening?
Obama accedes to Israel's possible annihilation.

By Ben Stein

"...For Mr. Obama to trust these people [Iran] o actually change their stripes and suddenly become trustworthy is deeply naive or worse. If that trust turns out to be mistaken, it’s a bad day for Mr. Obama. It’s death for Israel..."

-- Is This Really Happening? | The American Spectator

Actually if that trust in Iran turned out to be mistaken, it would be a bad day for Iran too. This "mutual risk" is actually one of the reasons why trust is possible.

Stein continues:

This is no time to reduce the sanctions. If Iran actually destroys its nuclear factories and labs, that’s a better bet. But just for a promise of a freeze to stop the sanctions that can be reversed in hours?

A promise of a freeze should actually count for something. If your odd neighbor promises that you can use his driveway and his dog is locked up, you may not trust him strongly, but that promise does have meaning. A good promise is still a basis for improving relations. And aren't improving relations and demilitarizing both our goals?

Stein's article is actually counterproductive if he wants to argue that it's important to motivate reducing arms. If you want to make things worse, that's when you ratchet up tensions when someone gives you an offer.

My guess is that actually Stein does not want to see positive relations with Iran. I can't say I blame him due to previous strife, but actually if you believe in peace it is something you should want. How can I say it better?

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Actually if that trust in Iran turned out to be mistaken, it would be a bad day for Iran too. This "mutual risk" is actually one of the reasons why trust is possible.

Stein continues:

A promise of a freeze should actually count for something. If your odd neighbor promises that you can use his driveway and his dog is locked up, you may not trust him strongly, but that promise does have meaning. A good promise is still a basis for improving relations. And aren't improving relations and demilitarizing both our goals?

Stein's article is actually counterproductive if he wants to argue that it's important to motivate reducing arms. If you want to make things worse, that's when you ratchet up tensions when someone gives you an offer.

My guess is that actually Stein does not want to see positive relations with Iran. I can't say I blame him due to previous strife, but actually if you believe in peace it is something you should want. How can I say it better?

"Believe in peace"? That's a a pretty nebulous faith. I believe in the God of the Bible, and he doesn't promise peace. He does promise survival for the Jewish people, though. As it stands, Israel is the most peaceful country in the Middle East; and they have fought and died to obtain that peace. Why do you somehow expect the Jews to be the ones to produce world peace, when their enemies are so intent on taking it away from them? Iran is engaged in a program to create nuclear weapons with which to attack Israel. I don't see how allowing this to happen will somehow bring peace.

Israel has peace. She doesn't need more peace. She needs security from her enemies.

Concerning Ben Stein, I have no doubt that he is a man of peace. Stein is a Jew and, like me, probably has relatives who were lost in the Holocaust. The world ignored Hitler's repeated promises to wipe out the Jews, and allowed him to rise unhindered to a place from which he could kill 6 million of them. Today, Iran's Ayatollah is repeating the same promises Hitler did, to wipe out the 6 million Jews of Israel -- in order to bring "peace". Stein says "No thanks", and so do I.

There can only be one of two peaceful outcomes to the Iranian problem:

1. Iran stands down, and gives up its nuclear weapons, or
2. Somebody takes them from them.

The only alternative to the above is war, not peace. It's up to the Iranians.

 

[BlandOatmeal]

Iran’s supreme leader says “Zionist officials cannot be called humans”; Israeli expert: Harsh talk meant “to set stage for deal.”

By ARIEL BEN SOLOMON

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"Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said Iran would not step back from its nuclear rights...

"Khamenei took swipes at Israel and France during his speech to tens of thousands of volunteer Basij militiamen in Tehran, broadcast live on Iran’s Press TV.

"“Zionist officials cannot be called humans, they are like animals, some of them,” said Khamenei. “The Israeli regime is doomed to failure and annihilation,” he said... he [also referred to Israel] as the “rabid dog of the region, namely the Zionist regime,” as quoted by Iran’s Tasnim News Agency..."

-- » Khamenei: ‘Israeli Regime Is Doomed To Failure, Annihilation’

There's just something familiar about this fellow...

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