The Lord's day.

[Albion]

Can you demmonstrate the evidence for Sunday "Lord's day"?

Of course.

But so can you, I'll bet.

And that's the point.

I did not want to re-argue everything we all know. We are all, or most of us, aware of the Bible passages that are relied upon by the advocates of Sunday worship and also the other ones utilized by the Sabbatarians. Why go through that again, from the start?

What I was wanting to convey was something else--simply that the POLL here was mistakenly worded such that it didn't sample the opinions that were sought. The third choice isn't an alternative to the first two possible choices, and if you're going to ask if there is "evidence" you are not asking if that evidence is conclusive (in other words, there is evidence both for and against Sunday worship in the Bible, so to know this fact doesn't say a thing about which evidence should determine one's conclusions).

 

[from scratch]

No, there isn't. There is no evidence in the Scripture, at all, that Sunday is the Lord's day of Revelation 1:10. No one has brought forward any yet.

Abundance of evidence has been brought forward for the 7th Day the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, however.

There is no such evidence found in the New Testament.

 

[from scratch]

Can you demmonstrate the evidence for Sunday "Lord's day"?

That has already been done and rejected without refutation/proof of being incorrect.

Your argument is like a processionary caterpillar. We also call it the merry-go-round here in GT.

 

[Elder 111]

That has already been done and rejected without refutation/proof of being incorrect.

Your argument is like a processionary caterpillar. We also call it the merry-go-round here in GT.

Mine or yours? There is no acceptable evidence.
The fact is that we as Christians have found ourselves in a position where we hold Sunday to be the Lord's day and instead of accepting scripture for what it says we try to curve/bend it to suit our position.
There is no scripture (not Acts 20:7 1 Cor. 16:2 nor Rev 1:10) that can be use to confirm that Sunday was a day dedicated to the worship of God. Even the Catholic Church officials on many occasions admitted to that fact.
No wonder Jesus repeated this statement in Revelation and made similar ones when He was on earth. Rev. 2: 7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; Also verses 11, 17 and 29. We just don't want to hear the truth.

 

[VictorC]

Mine or yours? There is no acceptable evidence.
The fact is that we as Christians have found ourselves in a position where we hold Sunday to be the Lord's day...

Speak for yourself. You haven't found anything in Revelation 1:10 that hints at a periodic event in either the weekly nor annual cycles observed in the flesh.

 

[Albion]

Mine or yours? There is no acceptable evidence.

No "acceptable" evidence?

You mean that you reject the evidence. OK. That is your right, but we are still left with Bible passages that seem to support Sunday and others that, arguably, support the continuation of Saturday as the day of worship. But since even you admit that there is evidence for Sunday, my earlier comments about the poll being badly worded remain.

The fact is that we as Christians have found ourselves in a position where we hold Sunday to be the Lord's day and instead of accepting scripture for what it says we try to curve/bend it to suit our position.

That's your opinion again.

There is no scripture (not Acts 20:7 1 Cor. 16:2 nor Rev 1:10) that can be use to confirm that Sunday was a day dedicated to the worship of God.

On the contrary, that Scriptural EVIDENCE is sufficient for us. And thanks for at last admitting to the existence of such evidence, even if you turn it aside.

 

[rstrats]

Albion,

re: "On the contrary, that Scriptural EVIDENCE is sufficient for us."


As far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first.

The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. And it wasn't because of the resurrection since at that time they didn't yet know that one had taken place. Nothing is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest.

The Acts reference has them together because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord's Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.

 

[Florierte Gottes]

Well, you're not even discussing the same subject, so I don't see any reason to go down that road. Sorry. You could start another thread, tho'.

So, then you agree with the Poll that there is "no biblical evidence that Sunday is the Lord's day." or do you agree that there "is biblical evidence that Sunday is the Lord's day."

If you agree that there "is biblical evidence that Sunday is the Lord's day" then please produce those texts/evidence.

Otherwise traditions and falsification of historical comments, do not count for the poll, neither the discussion -

Sunday Fraud - Sunday Fraud: Church "Fathers" on the Lord's Day

The 7th day Sabbath of the Lord - http://www.sabbathtruth.com/sabbath-history/sabbath-through-the-centuries.aspx

 

[from scratch]

Mine or yours? There is no acceptable evidence.
The fact is that we as Christians have found ourselves in a position where we hold Sunday to be the Lord's day and instead of accepting scripture for what it says we try to curve/bend it to suit our position.
There is no scripture (not Acts 20:7 1 Cor. 16:2 nor Rev 1:10) that can be use to confirm that Sunday was a day dedicated to the worship of God. Even the Catholic Church officials on many occasions admitted to that fact.
No wonder Jesus repeated this statement in Revelation and made similar ones when He was on earth. Rev. 2: 7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; Also verses 11, 17 and 29. We just don't want to hear the truth.

Why of course I'm talking about mine and is exactly why I used the word your. Silly o'me.

 

[from scratch]

Albion,

re: "On the contrary, that Scriptural EVIDENCE is sufficient for us."


As far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first.

The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. And it wasn't because of the resurrection since at that time they didn't yet know that one had taken place. Nothing is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest.

The Acts reference has them together because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord's Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.

So why not change you faith icon to reflect the real truth if that's what you support?

 

[from scratch]

So, then you agree with the Poll that there is "no biblical evidence that Sunday is the Lord's day." or do you agree that there "is biblical evidence that Sunday is the Lord's day."

If you agree that there "is biblical evidence that Sunday is the Lord's day" then please produce those texts/evidence.

Otherwise traditions and falsification of historical comments, do not count for the poll, neither the discussion -

Sunday Fraud - Sunday Fraud: Church "Fathers" on the Lord's Day

The 7th day Sabbath of the Lord - Sabbath Through the Centuries | Sabbath Truth

So the sites are 7th day adventisit sites. I read fraud because I can't verify the web site they quoted. It wasn't given. I read The Didache and there is no ellipsis.

 

[Elder 111]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Mine or yours? There is no acceptable evidence.
The fact is that we as Christians have found ourselves in a position where we hold Sunday to be the Lord's day and instead of accepting scripture for what it says we try to curve/bend it to suit our position.
There is no scripture (not Acts 20:7 1 Cor. 16:2 nor Rev 1:10) that can be use to confirm that Sunday was a day dedicated to the worship of God. Even the Catholic Church officials on many occasions admitted to that fact.
No wonder Jesus repeated this statement in Revelation and made similar ones when He was on earth. Rev. 2: 7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; Also verses 11, 17 and 29. We just don't want to hear the truth.
​

No "acceptable" evidence?

You mean that you reject the evidence. OK. That is your right, but we are still left with Bible passages that seem to support Sunday and others that, arguably, support the continuation of Saturday as the day of worship. But since even you admit that there is evidence for Sunday, my earlier comments about the poll being badly worded remain.


That's your opinion again.


On the contrary, that Scriptural EVIDENCE is sufficient for us. And thanks for at last admitting to the existence of such evidence, even if you turn it aside.

Now here I clearly stated that there is no acceptable evidence for Sunday worship and you can still say that I admit that there is evidence for Sunday worship? How is that possible? This is exactly what is done with scripture.
Look at Acts 20: carefully. Consider the facts.

1. The first day of the week. This day started on what we call Saturday night for the disciples. So that the disciples were together before that and continue through the night. What was before? The Sabbath!
2. The next day Paul was on his way. As this was "Saturday night". Noting again the observance of a day in apostolic times, Paul was traveling the Sunday morning. There was no Sunday worship.

Take the time and study the passage if your are searching for truth. I am not about winning an argument or debate. This is about the truth. How serious are you about knowing the truth?

 

[rstrats]

from scratch,

re: "So why not change you faith icon to reflect the real truth..."


Why do you think it needs to be changed, and to what do you think it should be changed?

 

[Albion]

Albion,

re: "On the contrary, that Scriptural EVIDENCE is sufficient for us."


As far as scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first.

All right. That's evidence, as any historical or scriptural researcher can tell you. And the poll question asked about evidence.

The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. And it wasn't because of the resurrection since at that time they didn't yet know that one had taken place. Nothing is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest.

The Acts reference has them together because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord's Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.

So you're saying that you personally find the evidence insufficient to support the conclusion reached by the majority of Christians. Fair enough, but it's still evidence.

 

[VictorC]

BUMP!!
...
Elder 111:

I'll give ya ten dollars to answer that post.

Even a shameless bribe didn't work, hehehe

 

[VictorC]

The Sabbath is not a shadow of things to come but a reminder of what has happened and what is a fact. That is that God is the creator of all things. Did you not read that?
The Sabbath is not a shadow of that which is to come but a command from God. Did you not see that?
It hurts me that either in ignorance or in plain disregard for scripture....

How can you retain this disregard for the reality of God's "My rest" the Sabbath was a mere shadow of? We just spent a huge amount of time and effort on your own 'Why not Jesus?' thread on this very topic! And you ran away from it!
And here, you contradicted a direct quote from Scripture because you can't reconcile your opinion with it.
Goodness gracious, great balls of hypocrisy!
If it walks like a 'ignorance or in plain disregard', quacks like a 'ignorance or in plain disregard', and acts like a 'ignorance or in plain disregard', then guess what - it is a 'ignorance or in plain disregard'.

 

[rstrats]

　
　
　
Albion,

re: "All right. That's evidence, as any historical or scriptural researcher can tell you. And the poll question asked about evidence."

The first poll option is "There is biblical evedince that Sunday is the Lord's day."

ev.i.dence n. 1. the condition of being evident. 2. something that makes another thing evident.

ev.i.dent adj. easy to see or perceive; clear; obvious; plain.

What is said in John 20:19 and Acts 20:7 that makes it easy to see by making it clear and obvious that Sunday is the Lord's day?
　

re: "So you're saying that you personally find the evidence insufficient to support the conclusion reached by the majority of Christians"

No. I'm saying that there is zero evidence in John 20:19 and Acts 20:7 to make it clear and obvious that Sunday is the Lord's day.

 

[By Faith Alone]

Even a shameless bribe didn't work, hehehe

If my offer had more zeros than his doctrine I bet he'da jumped all over it.

 

[from scratch]

Originally Posted by Elder 111

Mine or yours? There is no acceptable evidence.
The fact is that we as Christians have found ourselves in a position where we hold Sunday to be the Lord's day and instead of accepting scripture for what it says we try to curve/bend it to suit our position.
There is no scripture (not Acts 20:7 1 Cor. 16:2 nor Rev 1:10) that can be use to confirm that Sunday was a day dedicated to the worship of God. Even the Catholic Church officials on many occasions admitted to that fact.
No wonder Jesus repeated this statement in Revelation and made similar ones when He was on earth. Rev. 2: 7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; Also verses 11, 17 and 29. We just don't want to hear the truth.

​

Now here I clearly stated that there is no acceptable evidence for Sunday worship and you can still say that I admit that there is evidence for Sunday worship? How is that possible? This is exactly what is done with scripture.
Look at Acts 20: carefully. Consider the facts.

1. The first day of the week. This day started on what we call Saturday night for the disciples. So that the disciples were together before that and continue through the night. What was before? The Sabbath!
2. The next day Paul was on his way. As this was "Saturday night". Noting again the observance of a day in apostolic times, Paul was traveling the Sunday morning. There was no Sunday worship.

Take the time and study the passage if your are searching for truth. I am not about winning an argument or debate. This is about the truth. How serious are you about knowing the truth?

This has been considered very carefully more than once in my tenure here at CT.

Notice it says first day of the week. The fact of when they started the day has no bearing on what time of day they met during our Saturday. You can't have it both ways. The Sabbath was over. The fact it may have been actually on what we call Saturday and saying it was the Sabbath and not Sunday is fraud also called false witness. The point is it was the first day of the week. Furthermore the meeting went past midnight and part of the religious meeting actually was on our Sunday if you want to get technical.

On looking closer at the passage in question there is no indication of being at the synagogue on the Sabbath. That is nothing more than an assumption. There is no mention of the Sabbath in the 7 verses. ...on the morrow simply means the next day.

Your argument fails the test.

 

[from scratch]

from scratch,

re: "So why not change you faith icon to reflect the real truth..."


Why do you think it needs to be changed, and to what do you think it should be changed?

So why don't you use the quote feature to make things easier on everyone?

You're promoting doctrine recognized as that of a certain religious body. If you're going to promote it why not identify with it? Personally to me its a declaration that body isn't Christian.