My Murderous Challenge

[morningstar2651]

Numbers 31:15-18
15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

 

[ezeric]

Regarding: These 'lists' compiled of 'all the ones GOD is responsible for in scriptures of their deaths'.

My question is this: my grandfather was a good man that believed in GOD, but died at 95.
Our family (like yours) was still devastated and saddened at the loss.

So instead of making a partial list make a simple list as many times the truth is in simplicity - didn't GOD 'kill' my grandfather (and yours also)?

Isn't the argument here more of "how people die" rather than WHO did it.

If GOD takes spirit or life out of man's lungs - he's dead.
As GOD is SPIRIT.

And in the same way we all here have spirit (some of HIS spirit) and we can have it more abundantly as well. (if we want it).

-eric

 

[[serious]]

If God was responsible for genocide ... I promise you ... you would not even see one later on in the Bible.

In addition, there's that Catch-22 mentality you guys like to employ.

If they were to save the women, then you claim they were saved to be raped.

If they were to kill the women, then you claim it is genocide.

Your zealous false accusations are a dime a dozen.

I know! It's like they want to live AND not be raped!

 

[Oafman]

I know! It's like they want to live AND not be raped!

Women in biblical times were so demanding!

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Numbers 31:15-18
15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Ah yes, the rape of the virgins.

That book certainly is a great moral guide.

 

[[serious]]

Regarding: These 'lists' compiled of 'all the ones GOD is responsible for in scriptures of their deaths'.

My question is this: my grandfather was a good man that believed in GOD, but died at 95.
Our family (like yours) was still devastated and saddened at the loss.

So instead of making a partial list make a simple list as many times the truth is in simplicity - didn't GOD 'kill' my grandfather (and yours also)?

Isn't the argument here more of "how people die" rather than WHO did it.

-eric

Who killed them is exactly the question. If I went into a nursing home and injected elderly patients with a lethal dose of barbiturates to kill them peacefully in their sleep, the question the police and family would rightfully be asking is if I killed him. Trying to argue that it was not a horrific death does not mean that the murder was excused.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

If you are an atheist that believes God sactioned acts of genocide in the Bible, this challenge is for you.

Reconcile ...

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

... with ...

Jeremiah 18:21 Therefore deliver up their children to the famine, and pour out their blood by the force of the sword; and let their wives be bereaved of their children, and be widows; and let their men be put to death; let their young men be slain by the sword in battle.

Yes, the bible is the big book of multiple choice. Apparently god was very confused about a lot of things.

What's your point?

 

[AV1611VET]

I know! It's like they want to live AND not be raped!

Using the women in that capacity would constitute the error of Balaam.

And what did Jesus say about it?

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ah yes, the rape of the virgins.

Funny ... I seem to have missed the part about rape in your passage.

Perhaps you could highlight it in red for me?

 

[AV1611VET]

Yes, the bible is the big book of multiple choice. Apparently god was very confused about a lot of things.

What's your point?

That you can't reconcile those two passages without spiritual discernment.

 

[morningstar2651]

Genesis 6:7
So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.”

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Funny ... I seem to have missed the part about rape in your passage.

Perhaps you could highlight it in red for me?

Why else would they want virgins?

 

[morningstar2651]

That you can't reconcile those two passages without spiritual discernment.

"Spiritual discernment" is Evangelese for cognitive dissonance.

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the discomfort experienced when simultaneously holding two or more conflicting cognitions: ideas, beliefs, values or emotional reactions. In a state of dissonance, people may sometimes feel "disequilibrium": frustration, hunger, dread, guilt, anger, embarrassment, anxiety, etc.

 

[ezeric]

Who killed them is exactly the question. If I went into a nursing home and injected elderly patients with a lethal dose of barbiturates to kill them peacefully in their sleep, the question the police and family would rightfully be asking is if I killed him. Trying to argue that it was not a horrific death does not mean that the murder was excused.

Yeah,.. i get what you are saying.

I guess my point (failed maybe as I tried) is that the question is this:

Either GOD takes breath out and you die so HE is responsible.
Or people die of all kinds of different ways (some more horrific) but it has nothing to do with GOD/god because there isn't any (in their own mind).

If atheist think that GOD doesn't exist then stop with the scripture.
But I think their (atheist) major problem (in general) is they have only (in many cases) seen 'church' and heard 'you are going to hell' etc...
So its a turn off.

They have been told to shut their minds off at the door, and submit.

Where I don't see that in scripture - and what family is like that?

My guess is many or most atheist cases, they actually started in the church, and really know lots of that world if you will.

Unfortunately we see this GOD/god of wrath but not grace.
They have never seen true power, but stories...sermons actually void of power.

So as Paul said, "your faith isn't based on words but power". 1 Corinthians 2:5
Folks that is the way it is supposed to be!

Really I can't reconcile every scripture - or even want to try.
But I've seen GOD do some amazing things and healing and miraculous that I couldn't deny it.

Seeing our family of drunks and fearful angry people into a life of peace, and understanding and hope.

Seeing GOD through JESUS as the very nature GOD.
And not worry about how this GOD talked and treated the Jews and others of old...or was alot of that their own idea of 'serving god'?

Just like the Jews acted, when JESUS came.
It was their mis-interpruted ideas of 'what GOD is supposed to look like', that they wanted HIM dead.

i know this much: How we act is a direct relation to what we believe is our GOD/god. Wrath or Grace or non-existant or around but not close, to very close (nigh unto us)..how you think makes how you are.

brothers not trying to highjack the thread - sorry about that.
not trying to bring hate and ignorance, but some agreement (if possible).

-eric

 

[ThinkForYourself]

That you can't reconcile those two passages without spiritual discernment.

No, it just means that the bible has numerous contradictions.

Hence calling it "The big book of multiple choice", and stating that god was apparently very confused about a lot of things.

You can google "Biblical contradictions", or start here, to learn more.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why else would they want virgins?

I'm not going to dignify this question by listing several answers to counter your interpretation that they had rape on their mind.

 

[AV1611VET]

"Spiritual discernment" is Evangelese for cognitive dissonance.

Wikipedia disagrees.

 

[AV1611VET]

You can google "Biblical contradictions", or start here, to learn more.

Or I can agree with the Bible that it takes spiritual discernment.

 

[Split Rock]

Why else would they want virgins?

I'm not going to dignify this question by listing several answers to counter your interpretation that they had rape on their mind.

The bible says you can have sex with your wife and your female slaves. In the past, that is what you did with female slaves, and the only reason to consider their virginity is in consideration of being able to have sex with them without dirtying yourself. Nowadays, however, we would call forced sex with a female slave "rape."

 

[AV1611VET]

The bible says you can have sex with your wife and your female slaves. In the past, that is what you did with female slaves, and the only reason to consider their virginity is in consideration of being able to have sex with them without dirtying yourself. Nowadays, however, we would call forced sex with a female slave "rape."

Are you say they were used as wenches?