Mutation gives mouse poison resistance

[AV1611VET]

Ya!

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Weird, isn't it!?

 

[CabVet]

Ya!

Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Weird, isn't it!?

Please tell me more about this flood and what it has to do with beneficial mutations in mice.

 

[AV1611VET]

Please tell me more about this flood and what it has to do with beneficial mutations in mice.

No, thanks.

This is what I was responding to:

No. Falling water is not rain. A lake is not an ocean. The roof of a house is not the sky.

I'm not going to take your bait.

 

[CabVet]

No, thanks.

This is what I was responding to:

Your response is not related to the topic being discussed. Here is what rain is: the liquid water in the form of droplets that have condensed from atmospheric water vapor and then precipitated. Someone pointing a hose to the sky and making water fall down on you is not rain. Your response does not change that.

I'm not going to take your bait.

Does that mean you will stop trying to derail this thread now? Thanks.

 

[AV1611VET]

Here is what rain is: the liquid water in the form of droplets that have condensed from atmospheric water vapor and then precipitated.

For the record:

I originally typed that the Flood was caused by hydrometeors.

But then I looked up "hydrometeors" before I hit SUBMIT, and it mentioned your condensation in the atmosphere.

So I changed it to "raining," since I don't believe the rain came from condensation in the atmosphere.

It came from a source in outer space.

 

[AV1611VET]

Does that mean you will stop trying to derail this thread now?

Yes.

Now that I've confused you with Biblical facts, I feel I've done my part.

 

[Naraoia]

There are no specific species listed in the creation account and, as we all well know, species can produce variety. So no one could give an direct answer to that.

So wait, this versus this is within-species variation? (Pick any living bird species, it makes no difference. Seriously. Look at what you're claiming.)

Well then you should be able to classify this mutation, is it a gain of function mutation or no?

Yes, since Nav1.8 now has the ability to bind venom components.

Sure there are other stimuli. The article was vague on that point, but lets take a closer look. They did not say the reaction to the venom was prevented or there were any changes to Nav 1.7 channels. That and they also mentioned a "new kind" of painkiller would suggests the initial signal from the Na+ channels reacting to the venom was unaltered. They said the signal was prevented from traveling any further, suggesting the signal along the axon was what the mutation altered. That would dull any pain, not just venom. This is just a guess, but I would imagine that mutation could cause these mice freeze to death before they even knew it was cold.

Yes, I double-checked, the pain-killing effect does indeed extend to any pain stimulus. It doesn't, however, last forever as far as I can tell. Poor mouse would have to continuously get stung by scorpions to completely stop feeling pain.

You missed the point. I did not say speciation does not happen.

Then what on earth were you trying to say when you wrote, "It's just as Eternal Dragon pointed out, variation within a species and variation to a species are two different things"?

Species are reproductively isolated, so that any speciation occurs as a result of mating tells us they are the same species.

(1) Offspring who are reproductively isolated from their parents are not. (2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, hybrid speciation is not the only kind that has been observed. (3) Reproductive isolation is not a binary property.

What we do not see in the fossil record or otherwise is speciation by Darwinian evolution.

What, pray tell, do you mean by "Darwinian evolution"?

Man has evolved to reach conclusions based on rigorous testing of assumptions and reviewing objective evidence.

Heh, perhaps the whole problem is that we didn't. To paraphrase Mark Crislip of Science-Based Medicine: we evolved to survive reality, not to understand it.

I just want to ask a question and it may sound like a silly one.

So you believe that a colony of mice like creatures, if they had to constantly run uphill and say flap their forearms while doing so to evade predators, would then develop enough mutations to enable their forearms to turn into wings? (New blood vessel layouts, new tendon locations, muscles, etc.)

Perhaps. Mutations are kind of unpredictable. Or perhaps they'd come up with something else. Or go extinct.

And then enough other mutations to develop feathers, navigational skills, egg laying ability to become a......bird like creature?

Certainly no. If mice evolved flight, they would evolve their own flight adaptations starting from the possibilities presented by the mouse body. Do bats have feathers? Did pterosaurs have feathers? Do insects? No. Evolution can only work from what chance and history give it. Flight feathers are pretty complex structures that you'd definitely be surprised to see evolve twice.

All because they were trying to avoid a predator that they could have avoided by simply running faster or hiding better?

If it were indeed simpler to run away or hide, then flight might be an unlikely thing to evolve. Now, what if the mice lived in trees and jumped from branch to branch? What if they had protofeathers they used to impress their mates or keep their pups warm? Again, the starting point can have a big influence on where you end up.

I was sort of thinking it was you who recently posted that video of how flight in animals developed. Maybe it was someone else.

It showed a dino running up a hill, flapping it's small arms and that is how evolutionists think wings (flight) came about.

The WAIR hypothesis? I think that's by no means the accepted explanation. You should ask a proper dinosaur nerd about this, but IIRC the idea only works if you already have bird-like mobile shoulder joints, which early winged dinosaurs didn't.

 

[dad]

I don't know if I can write this in one hit, without having to stop to laugh hysterically.............let's see..



Oh I see......so now "angels" fit the bill of independent evidence....!?

They were talking to men who saw what they saw. Real men. By the way any personal incredulity about angels or demons is worthless. Not like you can prove they don't exist.

And yet again you make my case for me....you have NOTHING in the way of corroborating evidence, outside of the self-serving claims made in the Bible itself....this is the point I have been making...!

The bible is a document that is known to be true and a recoord of fulfilled events. Whether you can go back in a delorian and check it out is another matter.

What converts..? Who arranged his tomb..? Evidence please, not your wild assertions...

The record tells us who donated the tomb, no? Why dance around the ballroom?

That he DIED is hardly the point.....everyone dies..! So that a man lived and died is some form of miracle...?? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE, OUTSIDE OF THE BIBLE, THAT THE MAN JESUS ROSE FROM THAT DEATH...!?

That He was crucified is actually of importance.

No, hardly any......I can provide you with plenty of evidence that Homer wrote about certain characters and events in the Greek myths. By your logic, this would make those characters and events real........right..?

real...maybe. Of interest, or merit...that is another story. There were demons doing silly stuff. Whoopee do.

And Allah is the one true god, because Mohammed was "not in any doubt" as well........and a magic gnome lives at the bottom of my garden, because I'm not in any doubt too...

No. They claim Gabriel told them things that are against scripture...gong!

 

[dad]

No. Falling water is not rain. A lake is not an ocean. The roof of a house is not the sky.

No sense arguing about water falling on a little area, like a movie set. So how big would a rain need to be to call it rain? How many square feet, or miles? If I hosed an ant, it might think that it was raining.

 

[dad]

For the record:

I originally typed that the Flood was caused by hydrometeors.

But then I looked up "hydrometeors" before I hit SUBMIT, and it mentioned your condensation in the atmosphere.

So I changed it to "raining," since I don't believe the rain came from condensation in the atmosphere.

It came from a source in outer space.

True. The windows of heaven were opened up. Kind of like big hoses.

 

[CabVet]

No sense arguing about water falling on a little area, like a movie set. So how big would a rain need to be to call it rain? How many square feet, or miles? If I hosed an ant, it might think that it was raining.

In case you missed it:

Rain
noun
1. moisture condensed from the atmosphere that falls visibly in separate drops.

 

[dad]

In case you missed it:

Rain
noun
1. moisture condensed from the atmosphere that falls visibly in separate drops.

You are raining info today. So how does rain behave? Does it also have traits like God Gave man and mouse? It is a created trait, you know, to be able to adapt. You get that? Keep that info coming, you are like a fount of info.

 

[biggles53]

They were talking to men who saw what they saw. Real men. By the way any personal incredulity about angels or demons is worthless. Not like you can prove they don't exist.

You don't understand do you...? I don't have to prove anything, because I'm not the one making the claim.... YOU say there were angels.....YOU provide the evidence...!

The bible is a document that is known to be true and a recoord of fulfilled events. Whether you can go back in a delorian and check it out is another matter.

It is a document full of contradictions, errors and ambiguities.....

The record tells us who donated the tomb, no? Why dance around the ballroom?

Show me the "record"....?

That He was crucified is actually of importance.

Why...? Why is it any more significant than the thousands of others who were executed the same way...?

real...maybe. Of interest, or merit...that is another story. There were demons doing silly stuff. Whoopee do.

Let me get this straight...........all of the characters and creatures in the Greek myths actually existed....!?

Wow...........................

 

[dad]

You don't understand do you...? I don't have to prove anything, because I'm not the one making the claim.... YOU say there were angels.....YOU provide the evidence...!

The bible records that not me. You are in NO position to tell us there were none, and that Paul and John and Jesus, and Mary, and Joseph, and all the gang were liars. Really. Maybe talk about something you know a little about!

It is a document full of contradictions, errors and ambiguities.....

False. It is stunningly accurate and inspired by God Almighty. The best document by far on the planet.

Show me the "record"....?

You would need to look to see.

Why...? Why is it any more significant than the thousands of others who were executed the same way...?

Well, the fact that history confirms that is what is significant in the context of the post.

Let me get this straight...........all of the characters and creatures in the Greek myths actually existed....!?

Who cares?? Some were demons, maybe all. Now when you have pagan record keepers telling of demons, one can expect about what we see. Of course some may have been inspired unbeknownst to themselves to add some nonsense to the mix. The mischievous madness that ensued is not worth sifting through to figure out what was what!

Wow...........................

There are just two religions. God's and the rest.

 

[biggles53]

False. It is stunningly accurate and inspired by God Almighty. The best document by far on the planet.

Hahahahaha....!

Ok, perhaps you can give a "stunningly accurate" answer to these couple of questions....

How many women were present when the 'empty tomb' was discovered..?
1...?....2...?.....3...?.....more...?

Why does Matthew have to correct the glaring error in Mark 1:2 if this document is "stunningly accurate"...?

Why, in Mark, does Jesus' family think that he is going mad when he begins preaching, driving out demons, healing, etc...? Had they just forgotten about his supposedly divine origins...!.

 

[EternalDragon]

Hahahahaha....!

Ok, perhaps you can give a "stunningly accurate" answer to these couple of questions....

How many women were present when the 'empty tomb' was discovered..?
1...?....2...?.....3...?.....more...?

Why does Matthew have to correct the glaring error in Mark 1:2 if this document is "stunningly accurate"...?

Why, in Mark, does Jesus' family think that he is going mad when he begins preaching, driving out demons, healing, etc...? Had they just forgotten about his supposedly divine origins...!.

I think you are thinking of the Pharisees in that chapter. Mark 3? They are the ones that thought Jesus was possessed because he was doing miracles.

As for how many women.....two. Not sure about your Mark 1:2 reference.

It was hard for a lot of people to believe Jesus was who he said he was. Probably harder for his own parents and family. Even people today still incorrectly view him as just a mere human prophet. When in fact he was God presenting himself to the world in the body of one of us.

 

[biggles53]

I think you are thinking of the Pharisees in that chapter. Mark 3? They are the ones that thought Jesus was possessed because he was doing miracles.

No I am not...... Mark 3:21 When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

So, Jesus' family, including his mother Mary, felt that he was going mad in claiming what he was saying to people.

As for how many women.....two.

How sure are you..? Depending upon which gospel you read, you get a different number......and this is only one major difference amongst many in the way that the 4 books describe the death, burial and supposed resurrection...

Not sure about your Mark 1:2 reference.

This verse claims that the quoted words were from a prophecy of Isaiah, whereas these words came from Malachi......Matthew has to correct this error, by simply omitting the reference to Isaiah. In fact, Matthew attempts quite a lot of 'correcting' of Mark...

It was hard for a lot of people to believe Jesus was who he said he was. Probably harder for his own parents and family. Even people today still incorrectly view him as just a mere human prophet. When in fact he was God presenting himself to the world in the body of one of us.

Wait up.....amongst those people, we're talking about his mother....! Are we to believe that she just forgot that she had been visited by an angel, that she had been impregnated by a god and that she had given birth to someone who had been predicted to do the very things which now surprises her....!??

"Continuity....!!..."

 

[biggles53]

It was hard for a lot of people to believe Jesus was who he said he was. Probably harder for his own parents and family. Even people today still incorrectly view him as just a mere human prophet. When in fact he was God presenting himself to the world in the body of one of us.

One further point here. It appears that, even when Mark was written (around 70 CE), Jesus was regarded as simply a man. The "son of God" reference in Mark 1:1 was not added until after the 3rd Century - the earliest manuscripts don't have it. Mark mentions nothing about Virgin birth, etc. These things are all added in later 'revisions'.....

 

[AV1611VET]

How many women were present when the 'empty tomb' was discovered..?

QV please:

Not at all --- we can merge the accounts into one coherent scenario --- as follows:

From the Scofield Reference Bible:

• The order of events, combining the four narratives, is as follows: Three women, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, start for the sepulchre, followed by other women bearing spices. The three find the stone rolled away, and Mary Magdalene goes to tell the disciples (Lk. 23:55; 24:9; John 20:1,2). Mary, the mother of James and Joses, draws nearer the tomb and sees the angel of the Lord (Mt. 28:2). She goes back to meet the other women following with the spices. Meanwhile Peter and John, warned by Mary Magdalene, arrive, look in,and go away (John 20:3-10). Mary Magdalene returns weeping, sees the two angels and then Jesus (John 20:11-18), and goes as He bade her to tell the disciples. Mary (mother of James and Joses), meanwhile, has met the women with the spices and, returning with them, they see the two angels (Lk. 24:4,5; Mk. 16:5). They also receive the angelic message, and, going to seek the disciples, are met by Jesus (Mt. 28:8-10).

 

[AV1611VET]

So, Jesus' family, including his mother Mary, felt that he was going mad in claiming what he was saying to people.

Neat, isn't it?

Why do I say "neat"?

It's interesting that, after the resurrection, Jesus' half-brother, James, wrote a book of the Bible, detailing how one should be able to spot a Christian a mile away.

The before-and-after change of attitude toward Jesus by His own family served as a powerful testimony of the Resurrection.

Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.