Is anyone else watching the Strange Fire conference with John MacArthur?

[Fireinfolding]

I never met the man myself, seems like a nice guy.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I never met the man myself, seems like a nice guy.

His church is into some very weird stuff.

 

[Fireinfolding]

His church is into some very weird stuff.

Which church isnt these days?

Im just kidding wit chu

 

[Gnarwhal]

Which church isnt these days?

Im just kidding wit chu

 

[Rev Randy]

Neither Jesus Culture nor Kim Walker's songs to the Lord have any sort of "sexual" theme to them in any way shape or form.

Those who think there is, are either over-sexed pervs, or plain old tone deaf and hearing something other than what is really there.

But what I think is REALLY going on, is that those who criticize Walker's worship tunes are the same people who dislike Bill Johnson & his church (Bethel) and since Kim is a worship leader there, they have to try to find some way to slam her too.

So... will the real slim Shady please stand up?

Pervs or tone deaf? I can think of many other options. Does your statement damn them to hell or the lake of fire? Did you notice I only gave two options? Was that fair of me?
Gotta love these "did you stop beating your wife?" posts.

 

[LinkH]

Google Search: Jesus C
Searches related to Jesus C
jesus c gonzalez
jesus c photos
jesus c blog

jesus c music
jesus c 2010



I stopped searching for Jesus Culture to show up on any of the pages of results in the search result for Jesus C at page 11. It was not hard to discern this guy in the video is shall we say, dishonest in his claim about what pops on Google when someone goes in and searches, capital J e s u s capital C.

That kind of stuff changes every day. And he could have had that fill in feature, and Jesus Culture popped up as a fill-in (or whatever you call it) because he often looks them up, or someone else who uses his computer does. I'm not sure if it works that way, but it could.

Anyway, it's unlikely the band has any control over the Google searches. They'd have to have a real search engine optimization whiz working for them to make that happen.

 

[LinkH]

Btw, is the 'like a sloppy wet kiss' line in one of the songs the basis for the sexual overtone accusation? Some people say that's a great song with one lousy line.

 

[Andrea411]

Btw, is the 'like a sloppy wet kiss' line in one of the songs the basis for the sexual overtone accusation? Some people say that's a great song with one lousy line.

...but if you've ever talked to someone who actually says that was how the Lord made them feel, you'll know it wasn't a sexy thing, but like the Lord giving you a big hug...
I know there was a time the Lord whispered in my ear and I felt so loved, so special but I can't make anyone understand it bc it wasn't for them....

thats why we need to pray in the Spirit bc the English language or any language can not express what our hearts feel when the Lord is with us..... and I think maybe some songs sound over the top bc they're trying to find words to express those feelings
God bless, andrea

 

[simonthezealot]

Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn [splinter] in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!
Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me. And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.”
Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.
Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).



Matthew Henry Commentary 2 Corinthians 12:7-10


....2. The design of this was to keep the apostle humble: Lest he should be exalted above measure, 2 Cor. 12:7. Paul himself knew he had not yet attained, neither was already perfect; and yet he was in danger of being lifted up with pride. If God love us, he will hide pride from us, and keep us from being exalted above measure; and spiritual burdens are ordered, to cure spiritual pride. This thorn in the flesh is said to be a messenger of Satan, which he did not send with a good design, but on the contrary, with ill intentions, to discourage the apostle (who had been so highly favoured of God) and hinder him in his work. But God designed this for good, and he overruled it for good, and made this messenger of Satan to be so far from being a hindrance that it was a help to the apostle.
3. The apostle prayed earnestly to God for the removal of this sore grievance. Note, Prayer is a salve for every sore, a remedy for every malady; and when we are afflicted with thorns in the flesh we should give ourselves to prayer. Therefore we are sometimes tempted that we may learn to pray. The apostle besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from him, 2 Cor. 12:8. Note, Though afflictions are sent for our spiritual benefit, yet we may pray to God for the removal of them: we ought indeed to desire also that they may reach the end for which they are designed. The apostle prayed earnestly, and repeated his requests; he besought the Lord thrice, that is, often. So that if an answer be not given to the first prayer, nor to the second, we must hold on, and hold out, till we receive an answer. Christ himself prayed to his Father thrice. As troubles are sent to teach us to pray, so they are continued to teach us to continue instant in prayer.
4. We have an account of the answer given to the apostle’s prayer, that, although the trouble was not removed, yet an equivalent should be granted: My grace is sufficient for thee. Note, (1.) Though God accepts the prayer of faith, yet he does not always answer it in the letter; as he sometimes grants in wrath, so he sometimes denies in love. (2.) When God does not remove our troubles and temptations, yet, if he gives us grace sufficient for us, we have no reason to complain, nor to say that he deals ill by us. It is a great comfort to us, whatever thorns in the flesh we are pained with, that God’s grace is sufficient for us. Grace signifies two things:—[1.] The good-will of God towards us, and this is enough to enlighten and enliven us, sufficient to strengthen and comfort us, to support our souls and cheer up our spirits, in all afflictions and distresses. [2.] The good work of God in us, the grace we receive from the fulness that is in Christ our head; and from him there shall be communicated that which is suitable and seasonable, and sufficient for his members. Christ Jesus understands our case, and knows our need, and will proportion the remedy to our malady, and not only strengthen us, but glorify himself. His strength is made perfect in our weakness. Thus his grace is manifested and magnified; he ordains his praise out of the mouths of babes and sucklings.
III. Here is the use which the apostle makes of this dispensation: He gloried in his infirmities (2 Cor. 12:9), and took pleasure in them, 2 Cor. 12:10. He does not mean his sinful infirmities (those we have reason to be ashamed of and grieved at), but he means his afflictions, his reproaches, necessities, persecutions, and distresses for Christ’s sake, 2 Cor. 12:10. And the reason of his glory and joy on account of these things was this—they were fair opportunities for Christ to manifest the power and sufficiency of his grace resting upon him, by which he had so much experience of the strength of divine grace that he could say, When I am weak, then am I strong. This is a Christian paradox: when we are weak in ourselves, then we are strong in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ; when we see ourselves weak in ourselves, then we go out of ourselves to Christ, and are qualified to receive strength from him, and experience most of the supplies of divine strength and grace.

Thanks for sharing...This is fabulous..
His grace is truly sufficient.

 

[simonthezealot]

And why is that, because I posted it?

Also, I have posted much more than mindless repetition. Please do not denigrate my contributions like that because you do not like your assertions challenged.

Her modus operandi.

 

[simonthezealot]

You are registered as a non-Denominational Christian here.
Who are you to cast stones at a minister of a revivalist church? Perhaps you should seek God's council as to why you imagine boasting zealotry, per your screen name, and demonstrating hostility toward fellow Christians appears to be found necessary by you, as you engage this eclectic Christian community who share and speak of God's word.

As a follower of Christ Jesus I commanded to correct false teachings and earnestly contend for the faith, here we have a ministry (Bethel Church, Jesus Culture) being promoted as a true church when the fact is they have been exposed for their false teaching and un-biblical antics.
If the apostles did not seek to correct false teachings could you imagine how small our New Testament would be?
LOL you say I have hostility toward my fellow Christian, I have not made a personal attack on anyone..It's always been directed toward the false teachings of the Bethel church and word of faith teachers.

You have bore false witness against me in regards to boasting and hostility toward fellow Christians, and i'd suggest you repent and seek forgiveness.

 

[simonthezealot]

Originally Posted by HisSparkPlug
The best part is when SimontheZealot says the music has sexual undertones...



Ok then...Zealot and Tza
Tell us, does listening to worship music glorifying Jesus turn you boys on physically? lol
I'm really curious and I think it's a fair question since you claim the music is sexual.. heh.. Does it make you want to go out and do something ghastly with a woman?
We're all looking forward to your answers...

Really HSP, you need to pull it back a notch, these kinds of assertions are disturbing and offensive. Corrupt worship angers the Lord and this music is not theologically sound by any means. It does not take a rocket scientist to see the issues in this music, only a tad bit of discernment..So when people with discernment want to reach out and warn others you come out with sick odd assertions like this...

 

[brinny]

they are streaming it live on the grace to you website and its extraordinary I am only sorry my family members are not open minded enough to listen and hear the problems with tongues and healing and prophecy.

hope someone here will enjoy this and share it with perhaps the correct forum if this is not it

No, i wasn't listening cuz i didn't know about it, but thanks for the heads up.

 

[HisSparkPlug]

@simonthezealot
The truth is often offensive to those who are blind to it. It was a fair and valid question.
If you're going to make statements saying you find certain worship music is sexual, then you ought to be ready to answer the question as to how it sexually provokes you in an unhealthy manner.

The entire charge of said worship music being suggestive, or riddled with sexual undertones is simply funny. Some people will say anything.

Enjoy this incredibly sexual music by Kim Walker below.
I'm finished on this thread now as the refutes & charges are obviously and simply...silly..

Kim Walker-Smith - I'm Lover Of Your Presence - YouTube

 

[Andrea411]

Really HSP, you need to pull it back a notch, these kinds of assertions are disturbing and offensive. Corrupt worship angers the Lord and this music is not theologically sound by any means. It does not take a rocket scientist to see the issues in this music, only a tad bit of discernment..So when people with discernment want to reach out and warn others you come out with sick odd assertions like this...

Nothing corrupt about this worship unless your a MacArthurite… then you have no basis for your theology… just a follower of another book bc its not the Bible. Your insistence that Bethel is corrupt is your opinion… no basis for it. All churches have differences, obviously none are 100% correct or there wouldn't be so many denominations. Just bc some people do or believe differently then you does not make you anymore correct then Bethel.

what does the Bible say you MUST believe to be saved… and remember keep it simple…. bc its the simplicity of the gospel

God be thanked for the simplicity of the gospel. The longer I live, the more I bless God that we have not received a classical gospel, nor a mathematical gospel, nor a metaphysical gospel; it is not a gospel confined to scholars and men of genius, but a poor man s gospel, a ploughman's gospel; for that is the kind of gospel which we can live upon and die upon.

It is to us not the luxury of refinement, but the staple food of life.

We want no fine words when the heart is heavy, neither do we need deep problems when we are lying upon the verge of eternity, weak in body and tempted in mind. At such times we magnify the blessed simplicity of the gospel. Jesus in the flesh made manifest becomes our soul's bread. Jesus bleeding on the cross, a substitute for sinners, is our soul's drink. This is the gospel for babes, and strong men want no more.Charles Spurgeon

Romans10
0 Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.”[a] 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’”[c] (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[f]

 

[Melshezidek]

This comparison to the golden calf makes no sense. They worshipped an idol.
WHY did they worship an idol? = Because they felt abandoned and scared.
Charismatics do not feel abandoned & scared, but just the opposite. We know God is with us and believe the entire bible. Charismatics typically don't reject portions of the bible just because they make us "uncomfortable".

Let's now take look now at the truth of the Israelites and let's see how angry God got with them because they REJECTED His full character & personality:

“And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that were in the camp trembled... And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.” Exodus 19:16, 20:18​

Israel withdrew from the manifest presence of the Lord. When they began to tremble in the intense manifest presence of the Lord, they backed up and rejected this manifestation of the supernatural power of God.

In effect, they said, “Moses, we do not want all this shaking, visible glory, and trumpets (prophetic voices). Moses, you go into the Lord’s presence and then come back and tell us what He said. We want a nice quiet dignified service.”

The manifest power of God will greatly affect our emotions. Our responses will be varied, as we differ greatly in our make up. In our day and time, many criticize these “manifestations” (our responses, or reactions to His manifest presence) in the places where the Lord is testing us to see if we are ready and willing to respond to all that He desires to do and accomplish.

“The recipients of each visitation will become the persecutors of the next visitation.” The Lord may not repeat Himself, and because He moves in ways that are embarrassing to our intellect, many will react and reject

With the real, there is always the counterfeit. But we must be careful that we do not throw the baby out with the bath water. Today, the world is either ignoring or laughing at the Church, but this is about to change.

We are living in the time of the closing out of the Church Age in which Jesus is beginning to take His place as the manifest head of His body, the Church. The entire world will see this “corporate Jesus” and they will react, just as they did in the time of Moses, when the Lord attempted to reveal Himself to Israel, and also, when Jesus walked among the people of His day.

This tells us that we must be “made ready” for this coming time of visitation. If we are not rightly responding to the process of our being “conditioned” to abide in this powerful manifestation of the presence of the Lord, we also will react and protest, as Israel did. The Lord can wait for another generation, but we cannot.

We are at the end of the Church age, and we are approaching the time of Revelation chapter four. It is very important that we have been prepared through the present manifestations of His presence, and have developed a sensitivity to the voice of the Lord

“After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show you things which must be hereafter.” Revelation 4:1

Because Israel withdrew from the manifest presence of the Lord, He withdrew from them. Now, the same promise – the sound of a trumpet, saying, “Come up hither,” is being offered to us in our day.

There is a “present” call to come higher, as the Lord is doing things in ways that have never happened before. There are those who will say, as Mary of old when she was asked to give birth to Jesus, “It is impossible, and I do not understand, but be it unto me according to Your word.”

“And they sang a new song, saying… You have made us to our God kings and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.” Revelation 5:9-10

In the Lord’s time, He will say to these, “Come up.” The Head and the Body will come together and the resurrected glory of the Lord will be seen. As the Body functions in authority under the direct dictate of the Head, the nations will no longer laugh, but rather, they will tremble before them.

May we be found among those who, in this present time, will both welcome and respond
to the manifest presence of the Lord

And on that note... *Zzzooooooomm!

(The above article by Wade Taylor)

This is good!

 

[digabeatle]

As a follower of Christ Jesus I commanded to correct false teachings and earnestly contend for the faith, here we have a ministry (Bethel Church, Jesus Culture) being promoted as a true church when the fact is they have been exposed for their false teaching and un-biblical antics.
If the apostles did not seek to correct false teachings could you imagine how small our New Testament would be?
LOL you say I have hostility toward my fellow Christian, I have not made a personal attack on anyone..It's always been directed toward the false teachings of the Bethel church and word of faith teachers.

You have bore false witness against me in regards to boasting and hostility toward fellow Christians, and i'd suggest you repent and seek forgiveness.

civilized coherent responses are worth cheering for!

 

[ViaCrucis]

So we have the more Fundamentalistic side of Modern Evangelicalism vs. the Charismatic side of Modern Evangelicalism.

*sits down with a bucket of popcorn*

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I'm curious if we've gotten to the part where the Charismatics are accused of following demonic voices, and where the more Fundamentalistic are accused of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. We there yet?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Andrea411]

As a follower of Christ Jesus I commanded to correct false teachings and earnestly contend for the faith, here we have a ministry (Bethel Church, Jesus Culture) being promoted as a true church when the fact is they have been exposed for their false teaching and un-biblical antics.
If the apostles did not seek to correct false teachings could you imagine how small our New Testament would be?
LOL you say I have hostility toward my fellow Christian, I have not made a personal attack on anyone..It's always been directed toward the false teachings of the Bethel church and word of faith teachers.

You have bore false witness against me in regards to boasting and hostility toward fellow Christians, and i'd suggest you repent and seek forgiveness.

Making accusations you have not backed up is not "defending the faith". Why don't you look into why John MacArthur doesn't believe the scriptures? I don't see you doing anything constructive here.
Which false teaching? Why do YOU deem it false? Prove it. Bad mouthing other Christians you disagree with is not glorifying Christ or His church.
While your at it… which WoF teachers? Why is what they teach wrong, they use much more scripture then you do and they actually believe it… I think most of the anti-WoF people are just people unwilling to really walk in faith and open their eyes to the miracles the Lord sets before you on a daily basis.

Again, there are bad teachers, Usually the ones that are caught lying and cheating. The WoF teachers I listen to are very balanced. I like Wommack and Joyce Meyers…. before you paint with a broad brush please name the brush you yourself are under??

 

[Andrea411]

So we have the more Fundamentalistic side of Modern Evangelicalism vs. the Charismatic side of Modern Evangelicalism.

*sits down with a bucket of popcorn*

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I'm curious if we've gotten to the part where the Charismatics are accused of following demonic voices, and where the more Fundamentalistic are accused of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. We there yet?

-CryptoLutheran

oh we're way past that…. John MacArthur thinks we're just as bad as the mormons and I'm sure you know what he already thinks of Catholics. He said, we worship another god… a golden calf… really…
Seems the Pope has given his approval to the Catholic charismatic movement…. ??
The only time I have seen a number of different churches together Catholic, Protestant, Fundamentalists and Pentecostals is in Spirit-filled prayer meetings - we don't focus on our personal doctrinal differences, the focus is on Christ… its a beautiful thing. Its also where I found out that Catholics love Jesus and know Him as Savior just like Protestants/Pentecostals… hey who knew?? I thought they were too busy listening to the Pope but I was wrong.