What are the requirements for a person to get to heaven?

[doubtingmerle]

Sometimes the truth is harsh. That doesn't on its own make it any less true

Right, as long as one admits that the view that one has of reality is harsh.

So you admit that your view of reality is harsh?

One would think that a loving God would make a system that is not harsh.

 

[ebia]

OK, but in our illustration it is mentioned that the resurrection of George's son was specifically said to be a rumor, not the truth. And yes, of course, George's son did not rise from the dead. That doesn't happen in real life.

Then you're stuck, because the Christiian hope of "heaven" is that what happened to Jesus in his resurrection is what will happen to you.

 

[tulipbee]

Oh good. So we all make it? And nobody gets turned out?

I pick your plan.

God's plan was no one makes it but He sent Jesus to save some. The rest are still in their natural state they were born with and not even know it.

If you like my plan then you and I can approach God and tell Him we don't deserve to enter Heaven and want to go to hell. Want to join me?

 

[doubtingmerle]

If you like my plan then you and I can approach God and tell Him we don't deserve to enter Heaven and want to go to hell. Want to join me?

You want to go to hell? Why would you want that?

 

[ebia]

You want to go to hell? Why would you want that?

Read "The great divorce".

 

[98cwitr]

And how do I get reborn?

How is a child born now? What must the child do to be born?

Enough rhetoric. There is nothing you can do (Romans 9). If you must "do" something...believe that God is real, and then read the Bible and the Quran cover to cover. You must understand why people believe, once there the Spirit will either lead you or He will not; your fate was decided before you were even created.

 

[drich0150]

What are the requirements for a person to get to heaven?

To love your lord God with all of your Heart, Mind, Spirit, and Strength. To love your neighbor as yourself. To forgive others as God as forgiven you.

There are many formulas, and creeds that provide other lists. I have found them wanting. Because it is completely possible to follow those creeds/lists and still miss the things I listed above.

Why are the things I listed above so important? Because these are what Christ Himself said were keys to eternity with Him.

Going to heaven should be a distant second place to being with God, no matter what your surroundings will look like.

Salvation, is the smallest step in the process of establishing a relationship with God you are going to wind up taking. The next step is to Ask, Seek, and Knock for a portion of the Holy Spirit, as outlined in Luke 11.5,6 Then Jesus said to them, “Suppose one of you went to your friend’s house very late at night and said to him, ‘A friend of mine has come into town to visit me. But I have nothing for him to eat. Please give me three loaves of bread.’ 7 Your friend inside the house answers, ‘Go away! Don’t bother me! The door is already locked. My children and I are in bed. I cannot get up and give you the bread now.’ 8 I tell you, maybe friendship is not enough to make him get up to give you the bread. But he will surely get up to give you what you need if you continue to ask. 9 So I tell you, continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 10 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them. 11 Do any of you have a son? What would you do if your son asked you for a fish? Would any father give him a snake? 12 Or, if he asked for an egg, would you give him a scorpion? Of course not! 13 Even you who are bad know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father knows how to give the Holy Spirit to the people who ask him.”

The Holy Spirit will teach you, guide you, interced for you, protect you, watch over you, and help you establish and maintain your relationship.

 

[doubtingmerle]

To love your lord God with all of your Heart, Mind, Spirit, and Strength. To love your neighbor as yourself. To forgive others as God as forgiven you.

There are many formulas, and creeds that provide other lists. I have found them wanting. Because it is completely possible to follow those creeds/lists and still miss the things I listed above.

Why are the things I listed above so important? Because these are what Christ Himself said were keys to eternity with Him.

Ah the creeds and formulas are wanting. The suggestion to believe and confess is wanting. The suggestion to have faith in the blood is wanting. The suggestion to ask Jesus into your heart is wanting.

When it comes down to it, it is all about loving and living in moral decency.

I agree.

 

[doubtingmerle]

There is nothing you can do (Romans 9)...You must understand why people believe, once there the Spirit will either lead you or He will not; your fate was decided before you were even created.

If God decides this, does he not base it on anything which we do or are? If I have been chosen beforehand to go to hell, then would you suggest I not worry about it, for there is nothing I could do to change that?

Are you one of the ones that was chosen to suffer eternal torment in hell? If not, how do you know that this fate was not chosen for you?

 

[doubtingmerle]

Read "The great divorce".

I read that book.

That doesn't explain to me why you would write that, if I like your plan, then you want to go to hell.

 

[ebia]

I read that book. That doesn't explain to me why you would write that, if I like your plan, then you want to go to hell.

It's about how people choose hell over heaven. In the story they get to visit heaven, but don't like it and choose to go back to hell

 

[doubtingmerle]

It's about how people choose hell over heaven. In the story they get to visit heaven, but don't like it and choose to go back to hell

Ah, those who prefer hell choose hell?

And that is why you said you would choose to go back to hell?

 

[ebia]

Ah, those who prefer hell choose hell? And that is why you said you would choose to go back to hell?

i didn't say I would choose that, I said the book explains why those who do do so

 

[drich0150]

Ah the creeds and formulas are wanting. The suggestion to believe and confess is wanting. The suggestion to have faith in the blood is wanting. The suggestion to ask Jesus into your heart is wanting.

When it comes down to it, it is all about loving and living in moral decency.

I agree.

Morality is absolutly meaningless.

Take another look at what Chirst said the conditions of your salvation are. 'Morality' is not among that list.

 

[ebia]

Morality is absolutly meaningless. Take another look at what Chirst said the conditions of your salvation are. 'Morality' is not among that list.

Eh?


"Now when the Human One comes in his majesty and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his majestic throne. All the nations will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them from each other, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right side. But the goats he will put on his left.
"Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who will receive good things from my Father. Inherit the kingdom that was prepared for you before the world began. I was hungry and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger and you welcomed me. I was naked and you gave me clothes to wear. I was sick and you took care of me. I was in prison and you visited me. '
"Then those who are righteous will reply to him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger and welcome you, or naked and give you clothes to wear? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you? '
"Then the king will reply to them, 'I assure you that when you have done it for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you have done it for me. '
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Get away from me, you who will receive terrible things. Go into the unending fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels. I was hungry and you didn't give me food to eat. I was thirsty and you didn't give me anything to drink. I was a stranger and you didn't welcome me. I was naked and you didn't give me clothes to wear. I was sick and in prison, and you didn't visit me. '
" Then they will reply, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and didn't do anything to help you? ' Then he will answer, 'I assure you that when you haven't done it for one of the least of these, you haven't done it for me. ' And they will go away into eternal punishment. But the righteous ones will go into eternal life."

 

[98cwitr]

If God decides this, does he not base it on anything which we do or are? If I have been chosen beforehand to go to hell, then would you suggest I not worry about it, for there is nothing I could do to change that?

Your heart will decide that. (See Ezekiel 36 and Romans 9)

Are you one of the ones that was chosen to suffer eternal torment in hell? If not, how do you know that this fate was not chosen for you?

Possibly. I could know this my self-examination, am I a new creation? Do I still do the things that I used to when I was a sinner?

It's a little long, but please please please take the time to listen to Mr. Washer's sermon and this very issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyHnAKrDFNE

 

[drich0150]

Eh?


"Now when the Human One comes in his majesty and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his majestic throne. All the nations will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them from each other, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right side. But the goats he will put on his left.
"Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who will receive good things from my Father. Inherit the kingdom that was prepared for you before the world began. I was hungry and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger and you welcomed me. I was naked and you gave me clothes to wear. I was sick and you took care of me. I was in prison and you visited me. '
"Then those who are righteous will reply to him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger and welcome you, or naked and give you clothes to wear? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you? '
"Then the king will reply to them, 'I assure you that when you have done it for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you have done it for me. '
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Get away from me, you who will receive terrible things. Go into the unending fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels. I was hungry and you didn't give me food to eat. I was thirsty and you didn't give me anything to drink. I was a stranger and you didn't welcome me. I was naked and you didn't give me clothes to wear. I was sick and in prison, and you didn't visit me. '
" Then they will reply, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and didn't do anything to help you? ' Then he will answer, 'I assure you that when you haven't done it for one of the least of these, you haven't done it for me. ' And they will go away into eternal punishment. But the righteous ones will go into eternal life."

Mans 'morality' is an ever changing standard. What was immoral a generation ago is now immoral to oppose, and vise versa. Morality are not the absolutes provided by God. Therefore 'morality' as our soceity dee it is meaningless.

 

[GrayAngel]

Ah, let's scrap the other list and start over with the right list. Sounds like a plan.

Oh, and you don't agree with the writer who said not to make lists? If God requires several things before he lets people into heaven, one would think he would want the complete list published in a concise list.

I notice that your list emphasizes things specifically negated by other Christians. You mention not only turning toward what is right, but also following up with behavior consistent with that commitment. Those are, of course, good suggestions. We ought to commit to doing what is right, and ought to live consistent with that commitment.

I am surprised that some here say that one can lie, cheat, murder, rape, pillage and plunder without limit and still make it to heaven, as long as one believes and confesses that he believes. That sort of easy believism now seems strange to me.

Faith is what saves us. Faith also happens to reshape us, which causes a change in behavior, which is why Paul says that faith without works is dead. But you cannot take out the faith and keep the good works. Paul also said that good works, outside of the context of faith, are like dirty rags in God's eyes.

Jesus told a story of what it will be like in the end, when we're judged. The sheep will be separated from the goats, the look-alikes, and their lives examined. The sheep will be judged in their favor, because of all of the good things they had done, they had done in His name, as if they were serving Jesus Himself. But the goats, who knew Jesus but did not live lives that were honoring to Him, were judged harshly. (Matthew 25:31-46)

And yes, the "not making a list" thing is covered by the rule of living according to one's faith. But remember that I said that 3 was not a real requirement, but evidence for the first. Really, the entire list could be better organized like this:

1. Faith in Christ.
a. The inevitable inward change that comes from genuine faith.
b. The outward expression of one's faith, as a result of one's inward transformation.

 

[kingdomfirst]

What are the requirements for a person to get to heaven?

Be one of the 144.000.

(Revelation 14:1-3) 14 And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.

This is what they have been redeemed from the earth to do.

(Revelation 5:10) 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

 

[ebia]

Be one of the 144.000. (Revelation 14:1-3) 14 And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was as of singers who accompany themselves on the harp playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing as if a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one was able to master that song but the hundred and forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth. This is what they have been redeemed from the earth to do. (Revelation 5:10) 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

only orthodox, nicene confirming, Christians may respond here