What are the requirements for a person to get to heaven?

[juvenissun]

My question is what one needs to do to go to heaven. My question is not whether Jesus is God, or whether he has authority.

My answer emphasized the verb: accept ....
That is exactly the answer to your question.

 

[Joshua260]

That doesn't exactly answer my question. What is faith in his blood? Is it simply confidence that God will forgive based on seeing the blood?

So that's it? Just belief? That's all? You can lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder, pillage, and plunder, but as long as you have confidence that the blood provides a free path to heaven, you make it? The blood is a "get out of jail free card"? And the saint who spends her entire life in service of others without believing that story about the blood enters eternal torment?

There are many verses that describe the process of salvation--it's basically the same idea throughout even though the language may differ slightly--many on this thread have quoted those various passages. The basic idea is that you confess that you are a sinner, repent of your sins, accept Jesus as your savior, and ask him to come into your heart. Another way of saying this is "being born again". If one has truly been born again, they will try to live a life that is pleasing to God...exactly what we were saying in your other thread about AFTER being saved by faith and THEN trying to obey God's commandments...not out of a fear of going to hell, but out of a deep love for our heavenly father. "We love him, because he first loved us!!" 1 John 4:19 (KJV)

Now you ask if one sins after being saved, do they still go to heaven? I'm sure you know that you will find differences of opinion on this doctrine amongst Christians. I happen to be one that believes that the bible teaches the doctrine of once saved, always saved (OSAS). That's a whole other discussion that deserves it's own thread.

Lastly, you mention one who does good works (you refer to them as a saint), but does not accept Jesus as savior. The problem with your argument here is that NO ONE has lived a sinless life (even though you called them a saint) other than Jesus. So, we're right back to depending on the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Scripture teaches that Jesus is "the way...no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6 (KJV)

 

[doubtingmerle]

Clearly his assent is purely intellectual; he hasn't actually got on-board with the idea.

In Hebrew thought to know something implies not just theoretical knowledge but also to act in accordance with that truth.

Ah I was wondering if the list of SH89 was incomplete. Now we find that for you there is a fourth requirement.

1. believe that Jesus is God the Messiah,
2. [believe that he] died and rose from the dead for the purpose of atonement for sins,
3. confesses this.
4. Act in accordance with that truth [whatever that means].

​

Ok, so do we have a complete list now? Or must we add Joshua260's requirement to have faith in the blood?

I would hate to have an incomplete list. Imagine all those people burning in hell because they thought the list was complete with 4 requirements if there are actually 5.

Now all you need to do is define exactly what you mean by "acting in according with that truth". For instance, Is killing people because they differ with your religion in accordance with that truth or isn't it? How do I know which acts are in accordance with that truth and which are not?

 

[doubtingmerle]

The basic idea is that you confess that you are a sinner, repent of your sins, accept Jesus as your savior, and ask him to come into your heart.

Oh dear.

I thought we were ending the list and now we end up with 4 totally new requirements.

Sigh. Do I add these to the previous list, or do we start all over with your list? Just to make sure we don't miss anything, let's assume we add them to the previous list:

1. believe that Jesus is God the Messiah,
2. [believe that he] died and rose from the dead for the purpose of atonement for sins,
3. confesses this.
4. Act in accordance with that truth [whatever that means].
5. confess that you are a sinner
6. repent of your sins [whatever that means]
7. accept Jesus as your savior
8. ask him to come into your heart.
​

Have we got it right now? So I need to do all 8 of those things? What if I do only 7? Am I then eternal toast?

Oh and I saw another requirement, "Have faith in the blood". Should I be adding that as number 9, or can we skip that one.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Now you ask if one sins after being saved, do they still go to heaven? I'm sure you know that you will find differences of opinion on this doctrine amongst Christians. I happen to be one that believes that the bible teaches the doctrine of once saved, always saved (OSAS). That's a whole other discussion that deserves it's own thread.

This I take is your response to my question, "You can lie, cheat, steal, rape, murder, pillage, and plunder, but as long as you have confidence that the blood provides a free path to heaven, you make it?"?

So can I take it your answer is yes, that one could indeed cheat, pillage and plunder without limit and that has no effect on his eternal salvation? He has a "get out of jail free" card that trumps everything he does?

So you would remove number 4 from our list of requirements for heaven? Does your list consist of 7 requirements?

 

[Joshua260]

Oh dear.

I thought we were ending the list and now we end up with 4 totally new requirements.

Sigh. Do I add these to the previous list, or do we start all over with your list? Just to make sure we don't miss anything, let's assume we add them to the previous list:

1. believe that Jesus is God the Messiah,
2. [believe that he] died and rose from the dead for the purpose of atonement for sins,
3. confesses this.
4. Act in accordance with that truth [whatever that means].
5. confess that you are a sinner
6. repent of your sins [whatever that means]
7. accept Jesus as your savior
8. ask him to come into your heart.
​

Have we got it right now? So I need to do all 8 of those things? What if I do only 7? Am I then eternal toast?

Oh and I saw another requirement, "Have faith in the blood". Should I be adding that as number 9, or can we skip that one.

Are you hear to explore Christianity or to mock it?

 

[ebia]

Ah I was wondering if the list of SH89 was incomplete. Now we find that for you there is a fourth requirement. 1. believe that Jesus is God the Messiah, 2. [believe that he] died and rose from the dead for the purpose of atonement for sins, 3. confesses this. 4. Act in accordance with that truth [whatever that means]. Ok, so do we have a complete list now? Or must we add Joshua260's requirement to have faith in the blood? I would hate to have an incomplete list. Imagine all those people burning in hell because they thought the list was complete with 4 requirements if there are actually 5. Now all you need to do is define exactly what you mean by "acting in according with that truth". For instance, Is killing people because they differ with your religion in accordance with that truth or isn't it? How do I know which acts are in accordance with that truth and which are not?

As I've said before, it's not about making a minimal list to get to heaven when you die.

It's about being part of God's Kingdom building, starting now.

And it's not about prerequisites. Salvation and healing are the same word in Hebrew. Salvation doesn't have becoming a better behaved person as a prerequisite - becoming better is salvation.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Are you hear to explore Christianity or to mock it?

Explore.

Are you here to explain Christianity?

 

[doubtingmerle]

As I've said before, it's not about making a minimal list to get to heaven when you die.

It's about being part of God's Kingdom building, starting now.

And it's not about prerequisites. Salvation and healing are the same word in Hebrew. Salvation doesn't have becoming a better behaved person as a prerequisite - becoming better is salvation.

"Becoming better" is salvation?

Oh good. I am working on improving myself. I think I am becoming better. So as long as I keep that up, I should be just fine?

Good to hear that.

 

[Joshua260]

Explore.

Are you here to explain Christianity?

Actually, yes. Although I'm not claiming to be a professional theologian, I'm here to try to help non-believers understand Christianity. The purpose of this forum, as I understand it, is for non-believers to ask Christians about Christianity. It's not intended to be a forum for debate or a forum where non-believers can express their non-beliefs.

You asked a question of Christians and I'm trying to do my part in answering from a Christian point of view to the best of my understanding.

It is not my intention to debate with you. Rather, I'm here trying to help you, if I can.

 

[ebia]

"Becoming better" is salvation? Oh good. I am working on improving myself. I think I am becoming better. So as long as I keep that up, I should be just fine? Good to hear that.

More precisely, being healed is salvation; it's not something you can do on your own.

It's not quite clear, but your sentence also looks likeits turning "becoming better is salvation" into "becoming better results in salvation"

 

[doubtingmerle]

More precisely, being healed is salvation; it's not something you can do on your own.

But there are prerequisites that must be met before one has salvation, yes? If there are no prerequisites, than all would have salvation.

So if some have salvation and some don't, and if salvation makes one better, why would it not be important to ask what one must do to obtain that salvation?

 

[ebia]

But there are prerequisites that must be met before one has salvation, yes? If there are no prerequisites, than all would have salvation. So if some have salvation and some don't, and if salvation makes one better, why would it not be important to ask what one must do to obtain that salvation?

Choose to get on board with the project; trusting what God is doing, becoming part of it.

 

[doubtingmerle]

Choose to get on board with the project; trusting what God is doing, becoming part of it.

Should I add these as 3 additional requirements for heaven?

1. believe that Jesus is God the Messiah,
2. [believe that he] died and rose from the dead for the purpose of atonement for sins,
3. confesses this.
4. Act in accordance with that truth [whatever that means].
5. confess that you are a sinner
6. repent of your sins [whatever that means]
7. accept Jesus as your savior [whatever that means]
8. ask him to come into your heart.
9. Have faith in his blood.
10. Get on board with the project. [whatever that means]
11. Trust what God is doing.
12. Become a part of what God is doing. [By doing good works?]​

Feel free to remove anything from this list that does not belong. And if there are additional requirements for heaven, please add them to the list. I want to get the list right.

Thanks.

 

[CaseyB]

Should I add these as 3 additional requirements for heaven?

1. believe that Jesus is God the Messiah,
2. [believe that he] died and rose from the dead for the purpose of atonement for sins,
3. confesses this.
4. Act in accordance with that truth [whatever that means].
5. confess that you are a sinner
6. repent of your sins [whatever that means]
7. accept Jesus as your savior [whatever that means]
8. ask him to come into your heart.
9. Have faith in his blood.
10. Get on board with the project. [whatever that means]
11. Trust what God is doing.
12. Become a part of what God is doing. [By doing good works?]​

Feel free to remove anything from this list that does not belong. And if there are additional requirements for heaven, please add them to the list. I want to get the list right.

Thanks.

I believe 2, 3 and 7 are the same. As well as 4,10 and 12. I think the whole thing can be summarized by saying "Believe in Christ and make a conscious effort towards being Christlike." That is my understanding, but I am nothing but a lowly "faith seeker" so take that as you would like.

 

[doubtingmerle]

I think the whole thing can be summarized by saying "Believe in Christ and make a conscious effort towards being Christlike." That is my understanding, but I am nothing but a lowly "faith seeker" so take that as you would like.

Ah, a simplified system. I was beginning to think this was all too complicated.

So God want us to believe in Christ and make a conscious effort to doing right.

I don't think I will make your qualification for "believing in Christ" After all, I have studied the subject, and determined that the evangelical view of Christ as resurrected savior is probably not true. But the requirement to make an effort sounds reasonable. It is something all can do.

If I make an effort to do what is right, but differ with you on which ancient stories are actual history (such as the resurrection story) will God accept my efforts, or will he demand that I agree with you on which events happened in history?

 

[CaseyB]

Ah, a simplified system. I was beginning to think this was all too complicated.

So God want us to believe in Christ and make a conscious effort to doing right.

I don't think I will make your qualification for "believing in Christ" After all, I have studied the subject, and determined that the evangelical view of Christ as resurrected savior is probably not true. But the requirement to make an effort sounds reasonable. It is something all can do.

If I make an effort to do what is right, but differ with you on which ancient stories are actual history (such as the resurrection story) will God accept my efforts, or will he demand that I agree with you on which events happened in history?

Well the name of the religion says it all really. If you don't believe in the one thing that the religion is based on, why would you bother to believe anything at all about it? To simplify it it would be like asking "how can I be friends with my neighbor George?" Well #1 is that you have to believe that George exists, failing that, what are you really asking? Are you asking how you can please the people that do believe that George exists? Are you asking how you can eat the food that people say that George has in his house without acknowledging that he exists? I'm confused.

 

[doubtingmerle]

To simplify it it would be like asking "how can I be friends with my neighbor George?" Well #1 is that you have to believe that George exists, failing that, what are you really asking? Are you asking how you can please the people that do believe that George exists? Are you asking how you can eat the food that people say that George has in his house without acknowledging that he exists? I'm confused.

Let's suppose that there is a rumor that my neighbor George's son, George Jr., was killed in a gunfight, was dead for 3 days, and rose from the dead. Let's say I don't personally believe that rumor is true. Must I then force myself to believe that rumor is true before I can be George's friend?

I would think if God exists, he would understand how you and I might differ on whether a claimed historical event actually happened or not.

 

[CaseyB]

Let's suppose that there is a rumor that my neighbor George's son, George Jr., was killed in a gunfight, was dead for 3 days, and rose from the dead. Let's say I don't personally believe that rumor is true. Must I then force myself to believe that rumor is true before I can be George's friend?

I would think if God exists, he would understand how you and I might differ on whether a claimed historical event actually happened or not.

The point I was trying to make is that you CAN surely be a theist without believing in Jesus Christ. But you surely CAN'T be a Christian, as that is what defines it. If you want to be accepted into the Christian Heaven, you need to believe in Christ. That is simple fact. Whether or not Christianity is the truth is a different debate in itself, but you are asking the question on a Christian Forum, so to expect anything but a Christian answer is not a valid expectation.

 

[ebia]

Should I add these as 3 additional requirements for heaven? 1. believe that Jesus is God the Messiah, 2. [believe that he] died and rose from the dead for the purpose of atonement for sins, 3. confesses this. 4. Act in accordance with that truth [whatever that means]. 5. confess that you are a sinner 6. repent of your sins [whatever that means] 7. accept Jesus as your savior [whatever that means] 8. ask him to come into your heart. 9. Have faith in his blood. 10. Get on board with the project. [whatever that means] 11. Trust what God is doing. 12. Become a part of what God is doing. [By doing good works?] Feel free to remove anything from this list that does not belong. And if there are additional requirements for heaven, please add them to the list. I want to get the list right. Thanks.

I think you need to add "not trying to make a list" to your list.