Questions and Answers about Masonry

[Drudgeon]

CabVet, there are flavors of Masonry that do not have a belief requirement to join. The Grand Orient of France, the largest Masonic body in that country, has no religious requirement. While Grand Lodges in the US don't recognize those orders, they do exist.

Some of the best men I've ever had the pleasure of knowing have been atheists. Whatever the motives were in the past for excluding atheists, in today's world, it just comes down to those things intrinsic to what US Freemasonry is. Lodges are buildings dedicated to God, Freemasons take oaths on Volumes of Sacred Law (the text held sacred by the particular Mason), Lodge meetings begin and end by invoking the aid of the Deity, etc. While not a religion, it is a society one of whose aims is to show a man the importance of his own religion in his life.

With this in mind, the question of Atheists joining the US variety of Freemasonry would be similar to asking why someone with a fear of heights won't be hired as a tight-rope walker or why someone who believes the earth is flat isn't allowed to design globes. (I don't mean for these examples to be condescending.) Freemasonry as it is practiced in regular Lodges in this country sees the world through the paradigm of the Brotherhood of Man under the Fatherhood of God. What you perhaps see as discrimination, I see as nothing more than not allowing someone who doesn't like chocolate into the chocolate lovers' club (had to throw in one more bad example).

 

[Skip Sampson]

I didn't say it was a religion, I said asked if it was a "religious thing" or "about religion".

Slow down a bit. The post was directed toward Simpleman25 who denied that Freemasonry was religion. Your definition is a fair one, but I doubt if any Mason will buy off on it. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

I've never heard any Mason saying that atheists or agnostics, etc. can't be trusted because of their belief system or shouldn't be considered for membership on this account.

That other guy spoke for himself...

The prohibition against atheists goes back to the foundation of the GL era, and is rooted in Anderson's Constitution:

A Mason is oblig’d by his Tenure, to obey the moral Law ; and if he rightly understands the Art, he will never be a stupid Atheist, nor an irreligious Libertine.

With that setting the tone, the prohibition is stated at the GL level in the Constitution, and usually explained in the EA ritual. This examples is typical of the ones I've seen:

You were asked in whom you put your trust because, agreeable to an ancient Masonic custom, no atheist could be made a Mason; it was, therefore, necessary that you should profess your belief in Deity, otherwise no obligation would be binding upon you. (KY GL)

Drudgeon's post #41 provides an excellent background to the prohibition which should be considered with the specifics of GL law. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Albion]

Skip, the other thread is for opponents of Masonry who want to debate or reinforce the myths that exist about Masonry.

 

[circuitrider]

The prohibition against atheists goes back to the foundation of the GL era, and is rooted in Anderson's Constitution:With that setting the tone, the prohibition is stated at the GL level in the Constitution, and usually explained in the EA ritual. These two examples are typical of the ones I've seen:Drudgeon's post #41 provides an excellent background to the prohibition which should be considered with the specifics of GL law. Cordially, Skip.

Skip, the wording you attributed to Iowa is not accurate. It does not say what you've stated above. There is no statement about the reason being that you can't trust someone who doesn't believe in deity. You've either picked up the wrong ritual or you have misquoted it.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Skip, the wording you attributed to Iowa is not accurate.

Per your comment, I've removed it. The source is an older one and obviously is not accurate. Thanks for advising me of the error. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

Skip, the other thread is for opponents of Masonry who want to debate or reinforce the myths that exist about Masonry.

Thanks, but I'm not interested in Masonic myths, only Masonic facts. I am unaware of any forum rules which restrict a member from participating in a discussion. I'll continue to chip in where I think it will be useful. Cordially, Skip.

 

[circuitrider]

Per your comment, I've removed it. The source is an older one and obviously is not accurate. Thanks for advising me of the error. Cordially, Skip.

You are welcome. But it does point out an obvious problem with you giving out what you believe to be Masonic information. Not being a Mason you may not pick up on obvious false information because you don't have the experience in the Craft. And not being a Mason you can't vet your material very easily to see if it is accurate.

 

[circuitrider]

Thanks, but I'm not interested in Masonic myths, only Masonic facts. I am unaware of any forum rules which restrict a member from participating in a discussion. I'll continue to chip in where I think it will be useful. Cordially, Skip.

And as per my note above, how are you going to tell what the facts are?

 

[Tigger45]

Tigger, I doubt that he wanted to know if you were a Mason. If that were his intention, he would simply have asked you!

It sounds to me as though he might have thought well enough of you to think of you as a prospective Mason. We don't want just anyone, you know.

If you'd shown enough interest to ask a few questions or said you had always wondered about Masonry, or something like that, he might have said a little more. We don't favor actively recruiting people, but we want to be available as a contact for those who might have thought about becoming a Mason but who didn't know how it's done or whom to speak with about it.

I think you may be right. The office area where I met him had a lot of glass walls and I could see him interact with others and he seemed to be a very sociable person. I'm thinking if I answered him that I was a Mason we would have something in common and if I wasn't he might of invited me to a meeting. The reason I didn't pursue that topic of conversation was because of all the things I've heard and read about Masonry. Like a 33rd degree mason knows a third about Masonry. which begs the question. Why all of the secrecy"?

 

[Albion]

I think you may be right. The office area where I met him had a lot of glass walls and I could see him interact with others and he seemed to be a very sociable person. I'm thinking if I answered him that I was a Mason we would have something in common and if I wasn't he might of invited me to a meeting. The reason I didn't pursue that topic of conversation was because of all the things I've heard and read about Masonry. Like a 33rd degree mason knows a third about Masonry. which begs the question. Why all of the secrecy"?

What do you think is secret? Other than a few words and handshakes, we've already promised to explain whatever you ask about. Of course, few Masons can explain everything about every last Masonic organization because few people belong to every one of them, but otherwise we'll try.

Some "secret society," huh--everyone knows where we meet, when we meet, how you join, what the degrees are, and etc.? Can anyone say the same for the Knights of Columbus or even the local AFL-CIO? LOL

 

[Eudaimonist]

With this in mind, the question of Atheists joining the US variety of Freemasonry would be similar to asking why someone with a fear of heights won't be hired as a tight-rope walker or why someone who believes the earth is flat isn't allowed to design globes. (I don't mean for these examples to be condescending.) Freemasonry as it is practiced in regular Lodges in this country sees the world through the paradigm of the Brotherhood of Man under the Fatherhood of God. What you perhaps see as discrimination, I see as nothing more than not allowing someone who doesn't like chocolate into the chocolate lovers' club (had to throw in one more bad example).

That makes perfect sense to me. Your group is simply not "tailored" to atheists.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[circuitrider]

That makes perfect sense to me. Your group is simply not "tailored" to atheists.


eudaimonia,

Mark

That is a good way of saying it!

 

[Skip Sampson]

Not being a Mason you may not pick up on obvious false information because you don't have the experience in the Craft.

A valid point.

And not being a Mason you can't vet your material very easily to see if it is accurate.

Actually, I can in most cases because I have the GL ritual and training material directly available to me. I have an fair library of such books.

In the referenced example the problem was that an Iowa ritual from the 50's got conflated with another jurisdiction's ritual and I didn't catch it until you pointed out the error. Still, in my discussions on Masonry, I'm pretty careful in sticking to authoritative GL sources upon which to base my writing. Cordially, Skip.

 

[Skip Sampson]

And as per my note above, how are you going to tell what the facts are?

Let's give it a try. I think it a fact that the Iowa EA ritual contains this statement:

The lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. He, therefore, who wears the Lambskin as a badge of Freemasonry is thereby continually reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is esssentially (sic) necessary to gaining admission into the Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.

Hopefully, spelling error noted above was corrected at some point, but you can now confirm or deny that the statement is indeed in the ritual. Call it a fact check. Cordially, Skip.

 

[circuitrider]

Skip,

I think you'd be aware that while I can tell you something is not in the ritual I cannot confirm for you what is in the ritual. This another reason, I realize, that as a non-Mason it is tough for you to get accurate information.

The only persons who can actually tell you what is in the ritual are persons who are willing to break promises they've made to their brethren not to do so. As such persons who are willing to do so are not fully honest people or completely trustworthy as to what they will tell you.

 

[Tigger45]

Skip,

I think you'd be aware that while I can tell you something is not in the ritual I cannot confirm for you what is in the ritual. This another reason, I realize, that as a non-Mason it is tough for you to get accurate information.

The only persons who can actually tell you what is in the ritual are persons who are willing to break promises they've made to their brethren not to do so. As such persons who are willing to do so are not fully honest people or completely trustworthy as to what they will tell you.

This is the secrecy I was aluting to that Albion nonchalantly LOL at. Which only serves to discourage open dialogue from reasonable inquirers.

 

[Simpleman25]

A valid point.Actually, I can in most cases because I have the GL ritual and training material directly available to me. I have an fair library of such books.

In the referenced example the problem was that an Iowa ritual from the 50's got conflated with another jurisdiction's ritual and I didn't catch it until you pointed out the error. Still, in my discussions on Masonry, I'm pretty careful in sticking to authoritative GL sources upon which to base my writing. Cordially, Skip.

That's why you'll always be on the sidelines looking on.

With never sitting in a lodge you can never know how we apply the rules. Are all the rules set in stone? No. It's impossible. That's where and why you will always fall short.

There are many laws in the country. Are they always applied the same way every time? No. That's why you may be able to read and even comprehend most of it. You'll never know the full scope until you can witness it.

 

[Simpleman25]

Thanks, but I'm not interested in Masonic myths, only Masonic facts. I am unaware of any forum rules which restrict a member from participating in a discussion. I'll continue to chip in where I think it will be useful. Cordially, Skip.

Thank you for continuing to be the upright gentleman your known for. Sheesh.

 

[circuitrider]

This is the secrecy I was aluting to that Albion nonchalantly LOL at. Which only serves to discourage open dialogue from reasonable inquirers.

Maybe this will help.

Masonry consists of "degrees" which are basically morality plays with a lesson. When Freemasonry came into existence many common people didn't read. So they learned lessons through visual presentations and memorization.

The degrees are intended for members of the lodge to teach the lessons of Masonry, to then have members learn the details behind those lessons etc.

In order to give you a unique experience of Freemasonry we do not want you to basically see the script for the play before you see it for yourself because you participate in the degree. You participation includes the senses you experience through your participation that make it more than just reading words off a page.

So Masons believe if you've read it all in advance it takes away from the enjoyment and the effect of the degrees. We believe the whole experience is more important than just the script and don't want to cheat any new Mason out of the experience.

At the same time, if you don't want to be a Mason it is not our intention to give you our degrees without your commitment to the brotherhood of Freemasonry. Degrees of Freemasonry are for Freemasons and not non-masons.

That's one of the reasons we seek to maintain the privacy of the degrees.

The other reason is that part of the lessons of the degrees is learn the importance of keeping our word. We promise not to reveal the degrees to non-masons. Even if you could look up the full Iowa ritual somewhere I would never reveal that material to you because I made promise not to.

Someone once asked me for a simple definition of a Mason. My simple definition was "an obligated man, that is a man who keeps his promises."

I hope that helps a little.